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WCRC banned from running trains on the mainline from 18th Feb 2016 now rescinded

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Deepgreen

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WCRC have had more than one SPAD in the past 25 years, a lot more!

Indeed, and the Wootton Bassett one alone was the worst SPAD that avoided actually resulting in an accident that I can think of, as, had it occured a few seconds earlier, a collision with the HST that had just passed the junction would undoubtedly have led to carnage.
 
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XDM

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http://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Swindon-Crown-Court.php

Melvyn Cox and WCRC listed as "for sentence" - verdicts due imminently?

I think it means Defendant has pleaded guilty so no trial needed today. Judge will just listen to Def's mitigation,hear his circumstances & sentence today,or possibly later. I know it was a very very serious matter,but it must be a terrible strain for him & his family so I hope the judge is lenient. It's not as if he is likely to do it again. Nor anyone else for that matter.
 

DarloRich

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I think it means Defendant has pleaded guilty so no trial needed today. Judge will just listen to Def's mitigation,hear his circumstances & sentence today,or possibly later. I know it was a very very serious matter,but it must be a terrible strain for him & his family so I hope the judge is lenient. It's not as if he is likely to do it again. Nor anyone else for that matter.

Yes it means the defendants pleaded guilty. I would not speculate further.
 

2HAP

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I'm not seeing that it says "for sentence" anywhere. It says the case is due to be heard today.
 

Agent_c

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I'm not seeing that it says "for sentence" anywhere. It says the case is due to be heard today.

You have to click on the down arrow

don 1 T20160027
Melvyn Cox
West Coast Railway Company Ltd
Details: For Sentence - Case Started - 11:28
For Sentence - Case adjourned until 14:10 - 13:10
For Sentence - Resume - 14:12
 

2HAP

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Agent c, many thanks. No sign of any mainstream media covering it yet. Too busy with the aftermath of the referendum.
 

E&W Lucas

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Indeed, and the Wootton Bassett one alone was the worst SPAD that avoided actually resulting in an accident that I can think of, as, had it occured a few seconds earlier, a collision with the HST that had just passed the junction would undoubtedly have led to carnage.
Agree, but having read the report in detail, have a lot more sympathy with the driver than I did initially. The word "overload" features frequently in it, something that i found myself agreeing with when I considered the specific circumstances on that footplate at the time. People do daft things when they are under excessive pressure. I hope his defence team can put this across.
 

alexl92

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Agree, but having read the report in detail, have a lot more sympathy with the driver than I did initially. The word "overload" features frequently in it, something that i found myself agreeing with when I considered the specific circumstances on that footplate at the time. People do daft things when they are under excessive pressure. I hope his defence team can put this across.

As someone who doesn't work on the railways (and hasn't got time at the moment to read through the report in detail, though I will at some point) are you able to explain in simple terms what the specific circumstances on the footplate and pressures on the driver were at this point?
 

edwin_m

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From memory, as well as the usual difficulties of handling a steam loco:

- Smoke drifting down in front of the window, so leaning out of the side window to see ahead.
- AWS siren not very loud, and flashing light warning not visible, so when leaning out driver was not aware of AWS warnings.
- Asked to use the vacuum brake instead of the air brake that would normally be used.
- AWS warning magnet for a speed restriction incorrectly placed so it could be confused with the one for the signal.
 
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najaB

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From memory, as well as the usual difficulties of handling a steam loco:

- Smoke drifting down in front of the window, so leaning out of the side window to see ahead.
- AWS siren not very loud, and flashing light warning not visible, so when leaning out driver was not aware of AWS warnings.
- Asked to use the vacuum brake instead of the air brake that would normally be used.
- AWS warning magnet for a speed restriction incorrectly placed so it could be confused with the one for the signal.
I understand all of the above, and sympathise with Mr Cox. However, none of it excuses the reset and continue.
 

edwin_m

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I understand all of the above, and sympathise with Mr Cox. However, none of it excuses the reset and continue.

Quite true, and I think the suspended sentence is a fair punishment.

The driver has presumably suffered by losing lost his job, he's unlikely ever to drive a train again so presents no danger to society, and I really see no point in locking him up.
 

XDM

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I understand all of the above, and sympathise with Mr Cox. However, none of it excuses the reset and continue.

That is why Mr Cox got a four month sentence,albeit suspended & incredibly unlikely to be activated unless he does exactly the same thing again. I wonder if others agree that it is probably the right sentence. It will deter others but it is a huge shame that a hard working train driver with 40 years in the cab & very probably an unblemished record on the railway & civilian life will eventually go to his grave knowing he got a 4 month custodial sentence. You can defraud the state of up to £30,000 & not go to prison, & a first time offender can beat someone up & just get an unpaid work order, or a fine they won't pay.
Mr Cox did not offend for personal gain. He just tried to do his job,but utterly reckless of the consequences. So very very foolish,but in no way evil.
Perhaps the judge recognised this. It will deter others but the result is he goes free without a fine.
 

ComUtoR

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Mr Cox did not offend for personal gain. He just tried to do his job,but utterly reckless of the consequences. So very very foolish,but in no way evil.
Perhaps the judge recognised this. It will deter others but the result is he goes free without a fine.

He put the lives of people at risk. If an incident had occurred then I have no doubt he would have been called "evil"

What he did was unprofessional and dangerous. I dread to think of what he has been doing over his 40 years. He was lucky.
 

HLE

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He put the lives of people at risk. If an incident had occurred then I have no doubt he would have been called "evil"

What he did was unprofessional and dangerous. I dread to think of what he has been doing over his 40 years. He was lucky.

Google his name.
 

ComUtoR

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Google his name.

Googled annnnnd what specifically am I looking for ? I found many Mr Cox.

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/n...m_of_driving_a_steam_engine_to_London/?ref=ar


A RAIL enthusiast from Dorset has fulfilled a lifelong ambition by driving a steam engine to Euston in London.

Mel Cox also became the first person to drive a Bulleid Pacific express, a classic engine, into the north London station from the restored Swanage Railway for more than 50 years.

Mr Cox, an operations manager for the Swanage Railway who also lives in the town, has fulfilled various roles on the branch as a volunteer since 1964, but always dreamed of driving a steam train.

He said: “It was a childhood ambition really. I began, aged 16, wanting to drive them, but they all got replaced in 1967.”

Mr Cox qualified to drive the engines in May this year. (2011)
This link help ? So XDM wasn't being honest and he wasn't a Driver with 40yrs experience ?
 
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HLE

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W230

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Mr Cox did not offend for personal gain. He just tried to do his job,but utterly reckless of the consequences. So very very foolish,but in no way evil.
Perhaps the judge recognised this. It will deter others but the result is he goes free without a fine.
And of course, one should remember that train drivers have enormous responsibility. It's drilled in to us from day 1 (in fact even before when you're doing the applications!!!). He acted beyond irresponsibly, he acted criminally. He knew what he was doing and I would really struggle to accept he was naive of the consequences. While I fully agree that the distraction in the cab due to the high workload was what caused the SPAD, there was still the reset and continue incident to take account of.

Furthermore, I would suggest that he probably didn't spend 40 years driving if he was an operations manager, but irrespective of whether he did or didn't, he still reset and continued.
 

2HAP

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Question: Can a court revoke a persons licence to drive trains? Is Cox still legally allowed to drive a train?
 

GarethJohn

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That is why Mr Cox got a four month sentence,albeit suspended & incredibly unlikely to be activated unless he does exactly the same thing again. I wonder if others agree that it is probably the right sentence. It will deter others but it is a huge shame that a hard working train driver with 40 years in the cab & very probably an unblemished record on the railway & civilian life will eventually go to his grave knowing he got a 4 month custodial sentence. You can defraud the state of up to £30,000 & not go to prison, & a first time offender can beat someone up & just get an unpaid work order, or a fine they won't pay.
Mr Cox did not offend for personal gain. He just tried to do his job,but utterly reckless of the consequences. So very very foolish,but in no way evil.
Perhaps the judge recognised this. It will deter others but the result is he goes free without a fine.

Defrauding the State is not going to kill people through reckless behaviour.
Although Insurance fraudsters receive a much harsher sentences when it's only their own deaths they have faked.
He could have killed a hell of a lot of people pursuing his Dreams of driving a Train. He was incompetent. What would a Bus Drivers been had he ploughed through a Red Light almost killing pedestrians. Suspended sentence. I think he got off lightly
 

W230

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Question: Can a court revoke a persons licence to drive trains? Is Cox still legally allowed to drive a train?
No idea if a court can but Network Rail can so I doubt it would ever get as far as a court. We had a driver who had a couple of serious incidents within maybe four or five months of each other and NR terminated his licence. Nothing the company could do to keep him driving so he is now in another railway related role.
 

mtbox

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Don't forget Network Rails balls up with the TSR

Far as I'm concerned, it did not help matters regardless of the other factors
 

kieron

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This link help ? So XDM wasn't being honest and he wasn't a Driver with 40yrs experience ?
The RAIB report says he worked full time for 30 years driving diesel trains, and worked for WCRC after he retired, to make something like 40 years' driving experience.
While I fully agree that the distraction in the cab due to the high workload was what caused the SPAD, there was still the reset and continue incident to take account of.
As the report says, working for a company which took an idiosyncratic approach to safety was a factor. It's easy to do something which costs your employer money and annoys your customers if you know that's what your employer demands of you.
 

W230

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As the report says, working for a company which took an idiosyncratic approach to safety was a factor. It's easy to do something which costs your employer money and annoys your customers if you know that's what your employer demands of you.
A factor, yes. But he still knew what he was doing and I understand the report confirms that he worked for a 'regular' freight firm at the same time (can't remember which one) so he would definitely have been aware of what he should and shouldn't be doing from that company, even with WCRC slack approach to safety.
 

E&W Lucas

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And of course, one should remember that train drivers have enormous responsibility. It's drilled in to us from day 1 (in fact even before when you're doing the applications!!!). He acted beyond irresponsibly, he acted criminally. He knew what he was doing and I would really struggle to accept he was naive of the consequences. While I fully agree that the distraction in the cab due to the high workload was what caused the SPAD, there was still the reset and continue incident to take account of.

Furthermore, I would suggest that he probably didn't spend 40 years driving if he was an operations manager, but irrespective of whether he did or didn't, he still reset and continued.
That is how i felt initially, then I read the report, and reflected on the contents, from the perspective of someone who's been around steam locos since he was a teenager.

Unlike what we operate day to day, the footplate of a steam loco working hard is an assault on your senses. A wall of heat (esp on a Bulleid), and high noise levels. The need to manage another person, and the boiler, in addition to driving. Driving with a restricted view of the road ahead, and being dependent on a the fireman to sight signals, which are obscured by the boiler. It's a different concept to driving modern traction, and unlike anything that you will have encountered in your everyday life either.

Particular factors over and above the normal:
1. Two extra bodies in the cab. You will have been told about the distraction risk of that in your training.
2. Steam leak in the cab obscuring forward visibility. Stuff that. If it couldn't be isolated and "nipped up" safely, the loco shouild have been out of traffic. I wouldn't have taken it. Again, you know how distracting a nagging, background traction fault can be.
3. inadequate AWS horn. Enough said in the report. Should have been sorted long before. Again, I would not have taken the loco into service.
4. BR reckined that it requires three fully trained drivers to operate a steam loco on today's network. (Driver, driver as a fireman, inspector). WCR do it with one fully trained person.

Are you atarting to get a better picture of the workload?
His mistake was to allow this situation to develop. As you correctly say, it's easy to see how the SPAD happened. I would add that people under sustained, excessive pressure can do stupid things. I have formed the impression that this is what has happened, Our is a very small world, and no one has a bad word to say about this driver, prior to this incident (Never met him myself). You don't become an idiot overnight. He's cooperated and pleaded guilty. Contrast this with the DCR business a couple of years ago. He is a full career driver BTW. The management job was in retirement for the Swanage Railway.
Not excusing what he did, but I think the suspended sentence is correct. If it had been simple negligence, then he should have gone to prison.

I'm more concerned by the Hexthorpe incident in some ways. A fireman taking it upon himself to isolate the TPWS and operate the loco, without explicitely being instructed to do so. Not in a high pressure situation. His feet wouldn't have touched on a preserved railway.
 
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