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West Lothian buses

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Christmas timetables have been released!

So 217 is actually limited stopping in Edinburgh, Buuut it covers the 275 route between Broxburn and Livingston Centre before continuing to Fauldhouse

The X18 runs its route to Whitburn then turns back to go via Longridge to Fauldhouse

The X38 will serve Bridgend village over Christmas, and terminate at the cross
On the 25th Dec/1st Jan

Christmas and New Year for First's services were also released the other day.

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...pdates/christmas-and-new-year-service-updates

Do First have half a dozen early morning council contracts? Some journeys run to weekday times when a day other than 25-26 Dec or 1-2 Jan falls on a weekday, while First clearly prefer to operate a Saturday timetable on their (presumably commercial) journeys.
 
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overthewater

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First are not the only ones to operate a Saturday sevice over the xmas period. Its nothing new.
 
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First are not the only ones to operate a Saturday sevice over the xmas period. Its nothing new.
Yes, I just thought the exceptions to their standard Saturday timetable seemed like journeys First wouldn't choose to run at the best of times, never mind at this time of year.
But if West Lothian Council are forking out for them to operate every weekday under a contract that probably explains why First are running them.
 

Baileygirl

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Saw three buses going to Newbridge from Kirkliston this morning about 9.30. The first a First 38 with a good load. The second a Lothian 63 with a good load and the third a Lothian Country X38 with nobody on it. Is it due at this time of day it's all concession card holders who get on the first bus what comes.
 

wlbusser

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Saw three buses going to Newbridge from Kirkliston this morning about 9.30. The first a First 38 with a good load. The second a Lothian 63 with a good load and the third a Lothian Country X38 with nobody on it. Is it due at this time of day it's all concession card holders who get on the first bus what comes.
I've been getting an x38 this week that's around Newbridge about 9.15 and am used to also getting the First 38 thats there about the same time.
It can be hit or miss as to how full the x38 is.

At least once this week I've noticed it having a particularly good load but then yesterday there was a single passenger on the one I got around 9 from Winchburgh.
Also 3 people at my stop got on a 38 which I would have done too if I didn't have any lothian m-tickets to use since the x38 I was waiting on sat a stop before for ages and then it and another were not in service but then I got one which was put back on as x38.
 

wlbusser

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So this morning there was 5 on the x38 when I boarded and within Winchburgh 2 got off but 3 got on including me. Heading towards Newbridge there's now about 15/6 passengers so an OK load compared to yesterday when there was less than half that.
 

Jordan Adam

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So this morning there was 5 on the x38 when I boarded and within Winchburgh 2 got off but 3 got on including me. Heading towards Newbridge there's now about 15/6 passengers so an OK load compared to yesterday when there was less than half that.

15-16 still probably isn't enough to break even on a round trip. Although this was to be expected.
 

wlbusser

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I don't image a few extra Edinburgh passengers will help, and doubt there will be much pick ups on the return journey.
 

Jordan Adam

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I don't image a few extra Edinburgh passengers will help, and doubt there will be much pick ups on the return journey.

Yeah that's my thoughts too, the 38 won't be doing much either, however it's got the Linlithgow - Stirling leg with no competition and decent numbers. So will likely remain profitable even if the Edinburgh leg is a bit of an operational burden.
 
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Yeah that's my thoughts too, the 38 won't be doing much either, however it's got the Linlithgow - Stirling leg with no competition and decent numbers. So will likely remain profitable even if the Edinburgh leg is a bit of an operational burden.
I don't see First maintaining the 38's Linlithgow to Edinburgh stretch for that reason, and to be honest I think this is part of the longer term strategy now that First are free from the SPT undertakings. Lothian Country will service the route between Linlithgow and Edinburgh through the EX2 and X38 (perhaps slimmed-down, depending on experience over the next year or two) and First will retain the Stirling to Linlithgow section with their own 38. There's surely very little demand for travel across Linlithgow (eg Kirkliston to Polmont), and a railway station at Winchburgh might mop up a lot of that anyway.
I guess the big question is when First decide to pull the plug. From that point it leaves Lothian Country in a position where they really do need to make money from the route because they won't have the luxury of being able to withdraw themselves without public uproar.
 

Train368

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That's 3 days in a row I've now seen driver training with the Green Arrow coaches between Armadale and Bathgate via Armadale East Main Street. Do you think it's for the X18 just using available fleet or maybe for a new route that's not yet announced?
 

ScotRail158725

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That's 3 days in a row I've now seen driver training with the Green Arrow coaches between Armadale and Bathgate via Armadale East Main Street. Do you think it's for the X18 just using available fleet or maybe for a new route that's not yet announced?
Now the spare coaches are really the only spares, they’re now use on training duties
 

Weemidi135

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That's 3 days in a row I've now seen driver training with the Green Arrow coaches between Armadale and Bathgate via Armadale East Main Street. Do you think it's for the X18 just using available fleet or maybe for a new route that's not yet announced?

It’s driver training
 

overthewater

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Its all swings and roundabouts, just like around the rest of West Lothian, no one is really making that killing blow to the other side.

I don't see First maintaining the 38's Linlithgow to Edinburgh stretch for that reason, and to be honest I think this is part of the longer term strategy now that First are free from the SPT undertakings. Lothian Country will service the route between Linlithgow and Edinburgh through the EX2 and X38 (perhaps slimmed-down, depending on experience over the next year or two) and First will retain the Stirling to Linlithgow section with their own 38. There's surely very little demand for travel across Linlithgow (eg Kirkliston to Polmont), and a railway station at Winchburgh might mop up a lot of that anyway.
I guess the big question is when First decide to pull the plug. From that point it leaves Lothian Country in a position where they really do need to make money from the route because they won't have the luxury of being able to withdraw themselves without public uproar.

I think your counting your chickens far too early. Where still a while away yet from railway station at Winchburgh or that new motorway connection being built. There is some demand to travel across linlithgow. and again you seem to be forgetting about the people who are still stuck using the cheaper First services. From what I keep on seeing First will NOT pull out right now, I bet the tours are covering its self and any losses in Livingston.

Now the spare coaches are really the only spares, they’re now use on training duties
Its also popping up in Livingston.
 

Journeyman

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Personally, I'm a convert to the X38, because the m-ticket bundle day ticket for a fiver is great value. I'll often go to Edinburgh and use other buses and trams, and it's better than having to pay for that on top of First's £4 day return.

I hope First don't axe Edinburgh to Linlithgow completely, though. My son travels from Winchburgh to Forth Valley College three times a week.
 
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Personally, I'm a convert to the X38, because the m-ticket bundle day ticket for a fiver is great value. I'll often go to Edinburgh and use other buses and trams, and it's better than having to pay for that on top of First's £4 day return.

I hope First don't axe Edinburgh to Linlithgow completely, though. My son travels from Winchburgh to Forth Valley College three times a week.
Well I'm no expert but I really can't see a market to justify nearly 10 buses and 4 trains every hour between Linlithgow and Edinburgh. It feels such an awful waste of resource, so I'm not confident that two operators will continue on this route indefinitely. However maybe they'll keep going until your son finishes his course at Forth Valley College. In the event that First did cut back you could hope they keep some overlap and turn around at Winchburgh or Kirkliston. Or maybe that Lothian Country would extend to Falkirk!
 

Weemidi135

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Personally, I'm a convert to the X38, because the m-ticket bundle day ticket for a fiver is great value. I'll often go to Edinburgh and use other buses and trams, and it's better than having to pay for that on top of First's £4 day return.

I hope First don't axe Edinburgh to Linlithgow completely, though. My son travels from Winchburgh to Forth Valley College three times a week.

so you travel from Winchburgh to Edinburgh on a £5 day ticket ??

or do you live somewhere else
 
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I wonder if Lothiancountry will be able to leave the boundaries , as not only have they got to find the extra drivers and buses but the space to store them .
 

Journeyman

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so you travel from Winchburgh to Edinburgh on a £5 day ticket ??

or do you live somewhere else

Yeah, I live in Winchburgh. The day tickets for travel into Edinburgh and on all non-airport buses and trams are £7.50 each, but you can buy a bundle of five on the m-ticket app for £25. They're valid for six months and don't have to be used on consecutive days. I'm really impressed by this, it's good value as I'll usually use at least one or two buses or trams when I'm in town.
 

livi man

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Yeah, I live in Winchburgh. The day tickets for travel into Edinburgh and on all non-airport buses and trams are £7.50 each, but you can buy a bundle of five on the m-ticket app for £25. They're valid for six months and don't have to be used on consecutive days. I'm really impressed by this, it's good value as I'll usually use at least one or two buses or trams when I'm in town.
Good for you see how long they last running empty buses and not so good for your son
 

Jordan Adam

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That's the issue i have. If First were to cut the 38 east of Linlithgow in it's entirety then residents along the route would have a poorer service than they did before the launch of the EX2/X38. Ideally you'd want Lothian to extend the EX2 and/or X38 to Falkirk (might actually make it viable off peak), but that's not going to happen. Somethings going to give as there's not demand for 3 buses per hour along the corridor off peak, never mind 9 per hour. I'm not going to speculate who will cut/pull what first as it's near impossible to know in this scenario. I know those living on cloud 9 like to think the services are busy offpeak, but they ain't.

I don't see First maintaining the 38's Linlithgow to Edinburgh stretch for that reason, and to be honest I think this is part of the longer term strategy now that First are free from the SPT undertakings. Lothian Country will service the route between Linlithgow and Edinburgh through the EX2 and X38 (perhaps slimmed-down, depending on experience over the next year or two) and First will retain the Stirling to Linlithgow section with their own 38. There's surely very little demand for travel across Linlithgow (eg Kirkliston to Polmont), and a railway station at Winchburgh might mop up a lot of that anyway.
I guess the big question is when First decide to pull the plug. From that point it leaves Lothian Country in a position where they really do need to make money from the route because they won't have the luxury of being able to withdraw themselves without public uproar.

This is what i keep banging on about. Certain people (who seem to favour Lothian) keep expecting First to just cut/pull away, as already proven in the main WL area this is not the reality! What your post is basically saying is that First should pull their long standing service so that Hall & Co can profit off their new service, this wouldn't be a win at all. Everyone along the route of the 38 would loose out. Also i believe the opposite, there would be a bigger uproar if the eastern section of the 38 was axed rather than the X38, as the 38 being cut affects a far wider population. If the X38 was cut there would be no real loss as all the connections it provides are offered by the 38, EX2 and other services. Whereas if the 38 was cut vast numbers of links are lost.

How do you know they are all empty? :lol:

It's a well known fact at this point that all 3 services are practically dead offpeak and are not exactly carrying anything impressive onpeak.
 

livi man

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As far as I heard mr hall has been put to general manager and a new boss in so could that be the end of lcb when he looks at losses
 

Journeyman

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It's a well known fact at this point that all 3 services are practically dead offpeak and are not exactly carrying anything impressive onpeak.

It's not quite that simple. It varies a lot, actually. At weekends, I've been on nearly-full 38s and X38s.
 
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