West Lothian buses

smtglasgow

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I don’t know the area, but have First maybe decided that offering a faster journey time to folk from Livingston and East Calder will somehow make up for the any lost business in Kirknewton? I’m guessing the bulk of Kirknewton – Edinburgh trade goes by train? But you can’t help noticing that we now have two 15 minute services (LCB and First) on a corridor that First cut back on in August 2018 – who exactly do they think is going to be filling all these buses?
 
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RailUK Forums

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26 Jun 2018
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So First are serving Hermiston P&R, I’m not sure if it’s really needed. There’s a very small if any market into Edinburgh as it’s within the Ridacard Edinburgh. I therefore can’t see why First would need to serve it unless many people

Kirknewton is strange as that’s now left to LC, and journeys from elsewhere along the A71 are now served by more buses but are now a tad slower cause of Hermiston. Everything else they’ve done works but Overall a strange set of changes for the A71 corridor.
 

overthewater

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I don’t know the area, but have First maybe decided that offering a faster journey time to folk from Livingston and East Calder will somehow make up for the any lost business in Kirknewton? I’m guessing the bulk of Kirknewton – Edinburgh trade goes by train? But you can’t help noticing that we now have two 15 minute services (LCB and First) on a corridor that First cut back on in August 2018 – who exactly do they think is going to be filling all these buses?
When those cutback happened, First still give Kirknewton the basic 30mins service and cut the other parts now its gone the other way.


So First are serving Hermiston P&R, I’m not sure if it’s really needed. There’s a very small if any market into Edinburgh as it’s within the Ridacard Edinburgh. I therefore can’t see why First would need to serve it unless many people

Kirknewton is strange as that’s now left to LC, and journeys from elsewhere along the A71 are now served by more buses but are now a tad slower cause of Hermiston. Everything else they’ve done works but Overall a strange set of changes for the A71 corridor.
I think it's more for the students..
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I don’t know the area, but have First maybe decided that offering a faster journey time to folk from Livingston and East Calder will somehow make up for the any lost business in Kirknewton? I’m guessing the bulk of Kirknewton – Edinburgh trade goes by train? But you can’t help noticing that we now have two 15 minute services (LCB and First) on a corridor that First cut back on in August 2018 – who exactly do they think is going to be filling all these buses?
In the same boat as you. It does look (from afar so will concede to locals) that the train will probably hoover up the majority of Edinburgh bound passengers and for the number heading into Livi, they probably think that it's better competitively to leave that to LCB. Probably (to use a bad analogy) that they are happy to let LCB have those crumbs if it means that they can get a bigger slice of the cake elsewhere.
 

LiviCrazy

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6 Oct 2018
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I wonder if this is the beginning of a ceasefire between First and LCB? Maybe starting to carve the market up between them rather than compete on directly comparable corridors?
 

Baileygirl

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31 Oct 2019
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livingston
The train is at the opposite end of the Kirknewton village from the main housing area. Only busy in the peak. I thought First would have put service through at peak but left it to LCB. Same scenario as with Dechmont. Must reckon not enough passengers to share between them
 

NorthClyde320

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When Eastern (renamed SMT) was broken up, I thought the Borders and Mid/East Lothian passed to Lowland, and Livingston passed to the old Midland operation. Take it that isn't the case?
I did some digging and found that in
APRIL 1996 the Eastern depots at Livingston & Westfield pass to the Midland licence while Dalkeith & Musselburgh passed to the Lowland licence, Eastern's licence was reduced to 1 disc.
MAY 1999 the new First Edinburgh identity is introduced.
JUNE 1999 the Lowland licence is renamed First Edinburgh.
OCT 2001 the Midland depots at Livingston & Westfield pass to the First Edinburgh(ex Lowland) licence while the First Edinburgh(ex Lowland) depots in the Borders region pass to the Midland licence. This was following a restructure of the First management in Scotland to 4 divisions, East Of Scotland (Aberdeen & Edinburgh), Central & Borders, Glasgow North & Glasgow South.

Anyway enough from me.
 

NorthClyde320

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Midland bluebird licence give change.
First Scotland East was licence Exact fare only.
That used to confuse people when Midland & Kelvin jointly operated the old 37 & 39 services, it also angered the old First 43 passengers when the service transferred from Linlithgow to Livingston depot and went to from giving change to exact fare overnight with little or no warning.
 

overthewater

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The same happened on Kilsyth routes with the 24 and 27. When is the west lothian courier next due out? that is when we might see some unhappy passengers...

It just a very weird move...
 

Colin M

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That used to confuse people when Midland & Kelvin jointly operated the old 37 & 39 services, it also angered the old First 43 passengers when the service transferred from Linlithgow to Livingston depot and went to from giving change to exact fare overnight with little or no warning.
Kelvin also gave change on their services including a brief period after being taken over by First. My School bus was operated by Cumbernauld depot and up until 2000/2001 IIRC those services gave change whilst First Glasgow (No1) services were exact fare only.
 
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That used to confuse people when Midland & Kelvin jointly operated the old 37 & 39 services, it also angered the old First 43 passengers when the service transferred from Linlithgow to Livingston depot and went to from giving change to exact fare overnight with little or no warning.
Little warning about exact fare wasn't so much of a problem compared to charging random/secret fares on the 43 that seemed to vary from one day to another, and definitely varied with time of day. Stagecoach brought zonal ticketing and gave change too. The former was viewed as an improvement even if occasionally it worked out more expensive. Offering change isn't quite so passenger-friendly as some might think.
 
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Leaves the (rather small) night market to LCB. Wonder if they'll look at setting up an N18 to replace the N25 corridor and Bathgate on the N23.
Extend the N28 to Bathgate and launch an N18 around summer time Edinburgh to Whitburn (or Fauldhouse?) maybe via Kirkliston and Winchburgh to see if there may be demand for a future N38
 
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https://lothiancountry.co.uk/lothiancountry-fare-review-2020/

Still no weekly or monthly ridacard.. and in other news rain appears in Scotland :lol:

Noticed how Green Arrow returns are now withdrawn and LothianWest tickets will be valid on the Ex2 (given it will be increased to the exact price of a return and with unlimited travel within the Lothian network)

Could of just gone away with the green arrow fares altogether and make it local fare at this point (at least in Linlithgow)
 

overthewater

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Are there hopping more people will now use the Green arrow with the cheaper fare? Maybe there should have done this in the first place and Ex1 would have been kept...

And there is increase for the weekly and monthly tickets.. First just has to keep these product at the same price, I bet its fare will also go up but not these.

First:
First West Lothian + Edin Week: M-ticket is £21 for Seven days. So LCB is now 2 days less plus £5.50 per week moreover:
First West Lothian only: £17: So LCB is now 2 days less plus £2.50 per week moreover:

Monthly:
First West Lothian + Edin Week: M-ticket is £52 for Seven days. So LCB is now 8 days less plus £5.50 per week moreover:
First West Lothian only: £68: So LCB is now 8 days less plus £33 per month moreover: NOTE that only useful if you need to travel beyond either first or LCB routes within Edinburgh.

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Stopper

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Bitter First fanboys on here still talking as if the EX2 is on the brink. It really isn’t, it’s a very popular bus, far more popular than the 38 or the X38 for example.
 

Stopper

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Thats a new one!
I know it hurts you deeply, but the EX2 is a successful bus that has vastly improved Linlithgow’s bus service from the horrible & unreliable First 38. It has also taken a fair chunk of regular train travellers. So much for the EX2 going to be a catastrophic failure? Anybody with actual knowledge of the Linlithgow area and current situation knew it would be a success.
 

overthewater

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Hurts? More like confused? that's a oxymoron point, If that the standard were heading for... well. The fact is we want Ex2 to work however LCB has had to change the route, some fares and cull the EX1 to make things work.
 

Baileygirl

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livingston
The EX2 works as it goes through a housing area and has taken passengers from the trains. The EX1 only ran along the main road and only had a few stops. No where for anyone to park and get the bus. If it went through Westerinch or further West it might have worked.
 

Journeyman

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Are there hopping more people will now use the Green arrow with the cheaper fare? Maybe there should have done this in the first place and Ex1 would have been kept...

And there is increase for the weekly and monthly tickets.. First just has to keep these product at the same price, I bet its fare will also go up but not these.

First:
First West Lothian + Edin Week: M-ticket is £21 for Seven days. So LCB is now 2 days less plus £5.50 per week moreover:
First West Lothian only: £17: So LCB is now 2 days less plus £2.50 per week moreover:

Monthly:
First West Lothian + Edin Week: M-ticket is £52 for Seven days. So LCB is now 8 days less plus £5.50 per week moreover:
First West Lothian only: £68: So LCB is now 8 days less plus £33 per month moreover: NOTE that only useful if you need to travel beyond either first or LCB routes within Edinburgh.
Once again, you're completely missing the point that for anyone who doesn't need to travel every day, and/or needs to travel beyond the limited range of routes First provide, the Lothian tickets are much better value.

Also, many people who commute by bus never use them for leisure purposes.
 

Baileygirl

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livingston
In an ideal world it would be good if both companies survive with additional passengers. People will use the service of either company depending on what suits them best with fares and routes.
 

overthewater

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Once again, you're completely missing the point that for anyone who doesn't need to travel every day, and/or needs to travel beyond the limited range of routes First provide, the Lothian tickets are much better value.

Also, many people who commute by bus never use them for leisure purposes.
I can say the excat same to you... It utter rubbish commtuters never use the bus for leisure purpose.

The market you keep banging on about isn't that big.;)
 

Journeyman

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I can say the excat same to you... It utter rubbish commtuters never use the bus for leisure purpose.

The market you keep banging on about isn't that big.;)
I just pointed out that First being cheaper does not make them better value for money. Their ticket offerings are rubbish for my needs.
 

overthewater

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I just pointed out that First being cheaper does not make them better value for money. Their ticket offerings are rubbish for my needs.
Me nor anyone else disputes this fact, as TGW said your been lucky in the current compertition. However you needs are not repsentive of the wider market, and going by how most bus compaines operate, its clearly hightlight that umlimted travel tickets are the best vaule for most, covering a full week or month.

There are also plenty of individual fares where either company is cheaper over the other.
 

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