West Lothian buses

[Siemens Trains]

Unrelated but had LCB who didnt know what a plubus ticket , Lothian are good with those

Lothian Country don't accept PLUSBUS tickets, but Lothian Buses do.

 

[route101]

Lothian Country don't accept PLUSBUS tickets, but Lothian Buses do.

Didnt realise that . I used one from Edinburgh park on the 275 and x18

 

[Darklord8899]

Edinburgh PlusBus


Participating operators:
Lothian Buses, Edinburgh Trams, First, Stagecoach, Edinburgh Coach Lines.

Travel on the Edinburgh tram is available between any stop in the city and up to Ingliston 'Park&Ride'.


Excluded Services (of participating operators):
Edinburgh Trams: between Ingliston & Edinburgh Airport.
Lothian Buses: any part of Airlink 100; Skylink 200 & 300 between Ingliston & Edinburgh Airport. Special services, NightBus Services, Lothian Country, East Coast Buses & Edinburgh Bus Tours

 

[TheEastCoaster]

LCB seem to be getting complaints about NOT stopping for passengers.. Alas I had the same trouble aswell.

I’ve been seeing loads of that, most the complaints seem to state for folk hailing at Shandwick Place or Ratho Station, not a good sign unfortunately

Does full of air count?

Surely the empty bus jokes must be getting old now, especially since they seem to be holding out at peak times perfectly fine the only quiet times I’ve ever noticed are in late evenings but honestly what bus isn't quiet after 10 at night?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Surely the empty bus jokes must be getting old now, especially since they seem to be holding out at peak times perfectly fine the only quiet times I’ve ever noticed are in late evenings but honestly what bus isn't quiet after 10 at night?

Trust me, fresh Air Express jokes never get old! It's just light hearted humour not to be taken at all seriously.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Trust me, fresh Air Express jokes never get old! It's just light hearted humour not to be taken at all seriously.

Haha I respect your sense of humour then, honestly I had no idea if you were just taking the p or not, but your right it’s all in good fun at the end of the day

 

[overthewater]

The buses are carrying fresh air HOWEVER there are times buses are carrying loads but it seems to be X27/X28 Again its doesn't seem to be over the whole route.

 

[In Focus]

The buses are carrying fresh air HOWEVER there are times buses are carrying loads but it seems to be X27/X28 Again its doesn't seem to be over the whole route.

That's no real surprise First were racking up losses nearing £800 ,000 per year on a 15 minute service and that was devoid of any competition, it will never be a profitable route.
As for "fresh air" buses , the 280 does OK at peak,(maybe they will just duplicate all Firsts routes) the 275 has it's moments, the x18 seems to struggle after Uphall (not a shock),the 287 is always empty ,and as stated the X27/X28 will always struggle.
The interesting point though is all monies they are taking in is surely thrown down the tubes after 1730 in the evening with so many vehicles running around for virtually nothing and the amount of dead miles tramp8ng from Edinburgh and back in fuel and wages must be having a serious impact on any kind of revenue they are taking.

 

[overthewater]

I dont understand some of the sunday Freq either, its madness on the X18 being every 30mins, there are running on top of certain council contracts. When will WLC finally say lets cut our losses and save some money while letting Lothian lose lots?

 

[VioletEclipse]

Was on an X27 today and there were less than ten passengers (including me) for the whole journey. First are still getting a lot more passengers in West Lothian.

 

[overthewater]

Have you seen the service at peak times?

 

[VioletEclipse]

Have you seen the service at peak times?

Nope, I guess it would be a bit more popular though, possibly with all the seats taken?

 

[overthewater]

Nope, I guess it would be a bit more popular though, possibly with all the seats taken?

No, none of the buses have been like that for years. Many communtors are staying with First because of the better valued tickets

 

[VioletEclipse]

No, none of the buses have been like that for years. Many communtors are staying with First because of the better valued tickets

I was being too hopeful, anyway I wonder if Lothian realise that they are never going to out compete First unless they change their tactics, if the passenger numbers are anything to go by.

 

[overthewater]

Until the tickets change it wont happen. Lothian has mist the boat on this, it this was 2014 or 2015 then it would have walked it, that ship has sailed...

 

[In Focus]

I was being too hopeful, anyway I wonder if Lothian realise that they are never going to out compete First unless they change their tactics, if the passenger numbers are anything to go by.

They are not going to out compete First unless they are willing to sustain many years of losses and allow Lothian to subsidise an ego trip.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

They are not going to out compete First unless they are willing to sustain many years of losses and allow Lothian to subsidise an ego trip.

Funnily enough Lothian-City internally subsidising LC’s losses and possibly even ECB’s as well is something that First Group has/had done for years in Falkirk & Stirling not to mention its border operations First eventually got board of, yet the Lothian-City profits should be able to easily handle these losses, of course if lothian can make savings such as there barge-like XLB’s providing more seats at a lesser frequency, provided these reductions are not to severe, a savings a saving after all, its especially not seen to be severe if you get new buses on top of this..

Combine the profit of First Aberdeen, First Glasgow and possibly even Livi WITH the profit of Lothian City and you should quickly realise Lothian have the surplus to sustain a loss making entity for a superior time without any major doubt of doing so.

The public “may” view First and/or Stagecoach as simply making cuts, cuts, cuts and yet increasing fares simultaneously which of course behind the scenes is certainly the case as first/stagecoach have previously shown an unwillingness to subsidies loss making routes and/or operations, evidence by the East Coast Buses takeover in 2016(First’s ownership of Midland Bluebird still stumps me alittle though on the same basis of revenue vs losses, have they ever tryed to sell up?).

Lothian are still a Commercially operated company despite there share holders status, of course I for one accept ANY bus company wanting to provide a service to any part of the country, particularly if you’ve got a good footing before doing so.

After all, for something to be improved it can also be a loss-maker.

 

[In Focus]

Funnily enough Lothian-City internally subsidising LC’s losses and possibly even ECB’s as well is something that First Group has/had done for years in Falkirk & Stirling not to mention its border operations First eventually got board of, yet the Lothian-City profits should be able to easily handle these losses, of course if lothian can make savings such as there barge-like XLB’s providing more seats at a lesser frequency, provided these reductions are not to severe, a savings a saving after all, its especially not seen to be severe if you get new buses on top of this..

Combine the profit of First Aberdeen, First Glasgow and possibly even Livi WITH the profit of Lothian City and you should quickly realise Lothian have the surplus to sustain a loss making entity for a superior time without any major doubt of doing so.

The public “may” view First and/or Stagecoach as simply making cuts, cuts, cuts and yet increasing fares simultaneously which of course behind the scenes is certainly the case as first/stagecoach have previously shown an unwillingness to subsidies loss making routes and/or operations, evidence by the East Coast Buses takeover in 2016(First’s ownership of Midland Bluebird still stumps me alittle though on the same basis of revenue vs losses, have they ever tryed to sell up?).

Lothian are still a Commercially operated company despite there share holders status, of course I for one accept ANY bus company wanting to provide a service to any part of the country, particularly if you’ve got a good footing before doing so.

After all, for something to be improved it can also be a loss-maker.

Any idea when LCB figures for forst 6 months of operation will be released ?

 

[Volvodart]

The accounts to December 2018 are due to be filed by 30 September 2019. The main company accounts are usually filed in June, but they could easily delay LCB to the last possible date.

 

[In Focus]

The accounts to December 2018 are due to be filed by 30 September 2019. The main company accounts are usually filed in June, but they could easily delay LCB to the last possible date.

Thank you.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Funnily enough Lothian-City internally subsidising LC’s losses and possibly even ECB’s as well is something that First Group has/had done for years in Falkirk & Stirling not to mention its border operations First eventually got board of, yet the Lothian-City profits should be able to easily handle these losses, of course if lothian can make savings such as there barge-like XLB’s providing more seats at a lesser frequency, provided these reductions are not to severe, a savings a saving after all, its especially not seen to be severe if you get new buses on top of this..

Don't think that's correct. The Borders ops were ok (not great money spinners) but largely underpinned by the 62 and 95. Once the railway opened, it had a major impact on the 95 and so it made sense to sell to WCM so not a case of First getting bored

 

[Weemidi135]

LCB will eventually change there tickets to suit West Lothian. I think what people forget about is that with a LCB day ticket you get travel in Edinburgh as part of it not just West Lothian if you purchase the Lothian west day ticket

 

[overthewater]

The complaints are not about the day tickets, its about the weekly and monthly....

 

[In Focus]

LCB will eventually change there tickets to suit West Lothian. I think what people forget about is that with a LCB day ticket you get travel in Edinburgh as part of it not just West Lothian if you purchase the Lothian west day ticket

Maybe once they cut overheads and have a depot in West Lothian they may look at fares but as it is economically they dare not try and enter a fares war with so much dead mileage trecking from Edinburgh to West Lothian to run 90% empty buses that would be economical suicide at present.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Maybe once they cut overheads and have a depot in West Lothian they may look at fares but as it is economically they dare not try and enter a fares war with so much dead mileage trecking from Edinburgh to West Lothian to run 90% empty buses that would be economical suicide at present.

As I stated about Midland Bluebird, if Lothian have the excess to internally subsidies such a service in west lothian, good on them for spending money on there publically funded business.

 

[In Focus]

As I stated about Midland Bluebird, if Lothian have the excess to internally subsidies such a service in west lothian, good on them for spending money on there publically funded business.

Really ,And the need for it was ?
Personally as a member of the public in West Lothian I don't want my funds being used to finance some guys ego trip to oust a private company , I want my funds spent on more important issues within the area as their was already a more than adequate bus service that was steadily improving with quality of vehicles and options on fares.
I wonder how impressed the passengers on Lothian buses within the City will be when their fares rise so to subsidise a white Elephant running around West Lothian for no other reason than an ego trip ?
As for excess that will be an interesting one when they eventually release their figures for this venture.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Really ,And the need for it was ?
Personally as a member of the public in West Lothian I don't want my funds being used to finance some guys ego trip to oust a private company , I want my funds spent on more important issues within the area as their was already a more than adequate bus service that was steadily improving with quality of vehicles and options on fares.
I wonder how impressed the passengers on Lothian buses within the City will be when their fares rise so to subsidise a white Elephant running around West Lothian for no other reason than an ego trip ?
As for excess that will be an interesting one when they eventually release their figures for this venture.

I agree certainly that Lothian City's £1.70 single is starting to look abit pricey, especially if you only plan on a small journey but don't want to walk, but many in Edinburgh seemingly come across as accepting it as they still get a well rounded, reliable service across most of the city.

Of course...there was no need on the basis that things may have improved within FSE, the services and vehicles it operates, of course there is a poor track record of First group regardless of its subsidiaries position and no one has said that these supposed improvements will be indefinite.

All this talk about ego trips grinds my gears, if Indeed many of us are "not" fan boys of any particular company why is there such a mood from this discussion that what LCB are doing is a bad thing, if FSE tryed to move in on other Lothian City routes would many bat an eye lash, likely not yet when lothian do this to first its a bad thing? fundamentally if any person is neutral they would not care of what LCB are trying to do but you would simply view it as what could be improved to better compete against FSE, if there is a negative attitude towards Lothian trying too compete its a simply view that LCB are seen as a threat to FSE, particularly if Lothian pulled there finger out and introduced like-for-like ticket prices on Weekly, Monthly and annual tickets.

 

[In Focus]

I agree certainly that Lothian City's £1.70 single is starting to look abit pricey, especially if you only plan on a small journey but don't want to walk, but many in Edinburgh seemingly come across as accepting it as they still get a well rounded, reliable service across most of the city.

Of course...there was no need on the basis that things may have improved within FSE, the services and vehicles it operates, of course there is a poor track record of First group regardless of its subsidiaries position and no one has said that these supposed improvements will be indefinite.

All this talk about ego trips grinds my gears, if Indeed many of us are "not" fan boys of any particular company why is there such a mood from this discussion that what LCB are doing is a bad thing, if FSE tryed to move in on other Lothian City routes would many bat an eye lash, likely not yet when lothian do this to first its a bad thing? fundamentally if any person is neutral they would not care of what LCB are trying to do but you would simply view it as what could be improved to better compete against FSE, if there is a negative attitude towards Lothian trying too compete its a simply view that LCB are seen as a threat to FSE, particularly if Lothian pulled there finger out and introduced like-for-like ticket prices on Weekly, Monthly and annual tickets.

Why is it so bad ?
It's aggressive almost to the extent of attempting a monopoly of bus services throughout East Lothian, Mid Lothian, central Edinburgh and now West Lothian with a distinct possibility of the Falkirk area being next ,you think this is good for the industry?
You also have to remember how big an employer if local people First ,(previously Eastern Scottish / SMT) have been in this area for many many years with I'd imagine most people in the area knowing someone with history of one of these above companies .
I think based on business size Lothian will have their work cut out removing First but it certainly damaging for both companies although possibly short term good news for passengers long term I don't think it will be .

 

[In Focus]

I agree certainly that Lothian City's £1.70 single is starting to look abit pricey, especially if you only plan on a small journey but don't want to walk, but many in Edinburgh seemingly come across as accepting it as they still get a well rounded, reliable service across most of the city.

Of course...there was no need on the basis that things may have improved within FSE, the services and vehicles it operates, of course there is a poor track record of First group regardless of its subsidiaries position and no one has said that these supposed improvements will be indefinite.

All this talk about ego trips grinds my gears, if Indeed many of us are "not" fan boys of any particular company why is there such a mood from this discussion that what LCB are doing is a bad thing, if FSE tryed to move in on other Lothian City routes would many bat an eye lash, likely not yet when lothian do this to first its a bad thing? fundamentally if any person is neutral they would not care of what LCB are trying to do but you would simply view it as what could be improved to better compete against FSE, if there is a negative attitude towards Lothian trying too compete its a simply view that LCB are seen as a threat to FSE, particularly if Lothian pulled there finger out and introduced like-for-like ticket prices on Weekly, Monthly and annual tickets.

Do you disagree it's an ego trip for Mr Hall trying to have a monopoly on bus services in so many areas? , financially it made no sense to move into West Lothian unless First were moving out And it is almost unheard off in public transport for an operator to launch so many new vehicles and new routes in an area already being served with the frequency First and other operators were doing in West Lothian .
Only time will tell if it was the correct decision though.

 

[overthewater]

Lothian has tried to get a monopoly on the Queensferry road, yet the locals keep on using stagecoach express, why is that?