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What has been the fallout - if any - on the EMR "Connect" services to Corby?

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70014IronDuke

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We had some discussion in here on the pros and cons of the new Corby services set up - but that was some time ago.

The pro, because I can only think of one, is I presume, the new, 2TPH fast, high-capacity electric service connecting the Lutons/Bedford/Wellingboro/Ket/Corby.

The main con being Bedford and Wellingborough passengers wanting to go beyond Kettering* on the main line have to change and be quick about it at Kettering. And particularly to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield - they have to change twice. (Compared to eg 1970, when the was an hourly service, either directly or by a cross-platform change at Leicester.)

But how, in practice, has the new service (or lack of it) been received on the ground and in the general travelling public? Have the (relatively few) Bedford and Wellingboro - Leicester commuters (and others) just shrugged their shoulders, or have they got in their cars? Are there any indications? Have user groups, local mayors complained? I anyone lobbying for some additional stops?

* Yes, I realise there are a couple of exceptions in peak hours, and on Sunday mornings - but in essence, there are no through trains for most of the working weekday.
 
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LowLevel

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We had some discussion in here on the pros and cons of the new Corby services set up - but that was some time ago.

The pro, because I can only think of one, is I presume, the new, 2TPH fast, high-capacity electric service connecting the Lutons/Bedford/Wellingboro/Ket/Corby.

The main con being Bedford and Wellingborough passengers wanting to go beyond Kettering* on the main line have to change and be quick about it at Kettering. And particularly to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield - they have to change twice. (Compared to eg 1970, when the was an hourly service, either directly or by a cross-platform change at Leicester.)

But how, in practice, has the new service (or lack of it) been received on the ground and in the general travelling public? Have the (relatively few) Bedford and Wellingboro - Leicester commuters (and others) just shrugged their shoulders, or have they got in their cars? Are there any indications? Have user groups, local mayors complained? I anyone lobbying for some additional stops?

* Yes, I realise there are a couple of exceptions in peak hours, and on Sunday mornings - but in essence, there are no through trains for most of the working weekday.
I think COVID makes it very different to tell whether people may have stopped using it as a consequence of the service changes in terms of introducing Connect or because of changes in work patterns.

I imagined first class travel from Wellingborough has bombed. Otherwise not sure what numbers are like as I've never used a peak time 360 from London.

It is a certainty that the interior condition of the 360s is a source of contention.
 

QSK19

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The pro, because I can only think of one, is I presume, the new, 2TPH fast, high-capacity electric service connecting the Lutons/Bedford/Wellingboro/Ket/Corby.
I think that the pro you state is currently and will remain a con until the 360s have undergone the full internal refurbishment and reliability increases. Up to now, the rolling stock situation has been a shambles: the 360s arrived in a run-down condition from GA; the insides of the train are still grubby (even my 5 year old son asked “daddy, why are the 360s so dirty?”) and far removed from the Intercity level of travel that passengers have had with the 222s; there seems to be a chronic problem with short-formed services (even when running all diagrams as 8-car require only 12 of the 21 units); and the trains are most certainly not new in age (though they are new in the sense of the service being a new one).

I think your point will turn into a pro once reliability of the 360s has improved, as EMR familiarisation with EMU stock continues to increase and the 360s have the full refurbishment that they and Connect’s passengers fully deserve. On the latter point, 3+2 seating is simply unacceptable - IMO, whilst losing first class provision is forgivable, 2+2 is a red-line expectation.
 

Dr Hoo

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The pro, because I can only think of one, is I presume, the new, 2TPH fast, high-capacity electric service connecting the Lutons/Bedford/Wellingboro/Ket/Corby.
It's rather a loaded question - about 'fallout'. I note that you don't even think that services to/from 'London' are worth a mention.

I lived in Northamptonshire for over 20 years and commuted for London for most of that time. With an annual season ticket latterly at over £6,000 the idea of paying even more for First Class was never attractive. So not an issue. The nature of the former peak services, with various odd stopping patterns that greatly inhibited intermediate journeys, together with having to 'share' with longer distance passengers was far from perfect. Links with Corby were obviously far less frequent and in the mornings needed a change for many years.

I have close family links with the Corby and the place has gone through many changes over the last couple of decades. It continues to evolve. A central point is that the population has increased by around 1,000 per year ever since the rail link re-opened. This trend is continuing. There are massive housing developments there and around Kettering and Wellingborough too. The new electric service will continue to 'grow' in the coming decades. I tend to use it off-peak now but the trains are steadily getting busier, largely because of the post-covid rebound/recovery at the moment. Ticket barriers are going in and you can tell that the whole operation is just 'firming up' nicely.

I don't like the 3+2 seating but its only what BR used to provide to similar places like Northampton. Interestingly I have never directly heard of anyone at Corby really disliking that Class 360s. But I do miss having tables and the refurbishment can't come soon enough. Fair dos.

I have spent plenty of time at Kettering station for various reasons and people seem to have got used to changing there pretty well. I know that it's not cross-platform but the same could be said about numerous stations on 'paired-by-use' layouts, such as Milton Keynes or Reading (or even some on paired-by-direction, such as Woking or Southampton).

Various other changes along the route, such as increased car parking provision, the revamped layouts at Derby and Nottingham, makeover at Market Harborough and the forthcoming third generation of brand new main line rolling stock all help to give a positive vibe.

Any service re-cast is always going to produce some 'losers' but I haven't seen anything disproportionate.
 

TukayAway

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As much as I miss direct northbound trains to anywhere north of Kettering, I do like the service between Luton and London. It seems that not as many people are aware of the service and it's now possible to get advances from Luton to London for next to nothing. Let the 360s have a refurb and a good clean out and it's been a welcome change for me.
 

baz962

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At certain times of day the service is quite busy. Someone on another thread mentioned that they were waiting for the promised 12 car sets , as the 8 car are now busy at times.
 

Watershed

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I don't like the 3+2 seating but its only what BR used to provide to similar places like Northampton
But Northampton's rail fares are significantly lower, as a reflection of the fact that it has always had a commuter, not intercity, service. And 3+2 is hardly something to aspire to.

Fares for Corby, Wellingborough and (to a lesser extent) Kettering remain unchanged despite the significant downgrade in the quality of the rolling stock and an increase in journey times, going from comfortable 125mph 2+2/2+1 stock, to worn-out second hand 100mph 3+2/2+2 trains.

Really there ought to have been an adjustment to account for this, but of course the DfT would never sign off on that. Funnily enough hey were only too happy to do so on Southeastern, when HS1 opened!

There is still no sign of the long-promised refurbishment or 12 car trains materialising. On many occasions the trains aren't even 8 car, an issue not helped by the need for outsourced diesel haulage to get them to their main depot.

I would be very dissatisfied if I were paying the same price for a service that has deteriorated in so many ways.
 
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bramling

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We had some discussion in here on the pros and cons of the new Corby services set up - but that was some time ago.

The pro, because I can only think of one, is I presume, the new, 2TPH fast, high-capacity electric service connecting the Lutons/Bedford/Wellingboro/Ket/Corby.

The main con being Bedford and Wellingborough passengers wanting to go beyond Kettering* on the main line have to change and be quick about it at Kettering. And particularly to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield - they have to change twice. (Compared to eg 1970, when the was an hourly service, either directly or by a cross-platform change at Leicester.)

But how, in practice, has the new service (or lack of it) been received on the ground and in the general travelling public? Have the (relatively few) Bedford and Wellingboro - Leicester commuters (and others) just shrugged their shoulders, or have they got in their cars? Are there any indications? Have user groups, local mayors complained? I anyone lobbying for some additional stops?

* Yes, I realise there are a couple of exceptions in peak hours, and on Sunday mornings - but in essence, there are no through trains for most of the working weekday.

I have a work colleague who travels into London from Wellingborough, he’s pretty dissatisfied, and says this is the general feeling locally.

Issues:
* Loss of non-stop or limited stop services to/from London at the times he travels, some of which were HSTs. This seems to be the no.1 gripe.
* Poor condition of the 360s, and lack of features such as tables
* Last minute platform alterations at Wellingborough, which apparently have on occasions caused people to miss trains
* Unreliability - both cancellations and short forms
* Too many intermediate calls

It seems the extra capacity and clockface frequency don’t seem to outweigh the list of gripes. I’d imagine things are better from the perspectives of people travelling from other destinations, Wellingborough seems not to get so much in the way of benefits over what they had before compared to other places.

I suspect 3+2 might well be added to the above list if the trains get busier over time.
 
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70014IronDuke

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I have a work colleague who travels into London from Wellingborough, he’s pretty dissatisfied, and says this is the general feeling locally.

Issues:
* Loss of non-stop or limited stop services to/from London at the times he travels, some of which were HSTs. This seems to be the no.1 gripe.
* Poor condition of the 360s, and lack of features such as tables
* Last minute platform alterations at Wellingborough, which apparently have on occasions caused people to miss trains
* Unreliability - both cancellations and short forms
* Too many intermediate calls

It seems the extra capacity and clockface frequency don’t seem to outweigh the list of gripes. I’d imagine things are better from the perspectives of people travelling from other destinations, Wellingborough seems not to get so much in the way of benefits over what they had before compared to other places.

I suspect 3+2 might well be added to the above list if the trains get busier over time.

Interestingly different comparison with Dr Hoo's assessment.

So the main gripes appear to be focused on the state of the 360s, and few complaints about the lack of direct through services to Leicester and beyond from Bedford and Wellingboro.

I hadn't realised what the 360s are. I mean, I had assumed the new electric service would be allocated new units, and had no idea about all the fuss. It seems very strange to launch a new service with such antiquated stock and with no thorough overhaul, especially given the tendency for TOCs to ease off on maintenance work (at least non-safety work) when they know they are going to be shot of the stock.

(Yes, now I see there is a long thread on the 360s, but I hadn't twigged these were the Corby units.)

It's rather a loaded question - about 'fallout'. I note that you don't even think that services to/from 'London' are worth a mention.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I meant London to Lutons, Bedford ... etc.

All very interesting comments though, thks to you and everyone.
 

QSK19

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It seems very strange to launch a new service with such antiquated stock and with no thorough overhaul.
Cheap lease rates and stock available asap (well, asap relatively speaking in comparison to procuring new units and the inevitable introduction teething problems).

My gut feeling is that new stock will eventually run that route in the future; however the 360s are here to stay for a while yet - too much time, effort and work has been invested in them simply to then dump them in favour of a more expensive option (eg the 379s). Let’s hope they get the full refurbishment that they desperately need.
 

paulmch

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I grew up in Corby and live just outside of Cambridge these days. One element I've noticed is that the availability of very cheap advance fares to Corby has increased dramatically, presumably due to the fact that there's so much more capacity than there used to be.
 

SargeNpton

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But Northampton's rail fares are significantly lower, as a reflection of the fact that it has always had a commuter, not intercity, service. And 3+2 is hardly something to aspire to.
Northampton's rail fares are significantly lower than Wellingborough/Kettering/Corby because it was historically within the British Rail "London & South East" area in which London suburban fares were available.

On the Midland main line, that LSE area only reached as far as Bedford (being the then boundary of the London Division of the London Midland Region before sectorisation can into being).
 

bramling

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Interestingly different comparison with Dr Hoo's assessment.

So the main gripes appear to be focused on the state of the 360s, and few complaints about the lack of direct through services to Leicester and beyond from Bedford and Wellingboro.

I hadn't realised what the 360s are. I mean, I had assumed the new electric service would be allocated new units, and had no idea about all the fuss. It seems very strange to launch a new service with such antiquated stock and with no thorough overhaul, especially given the tendency for TOCs to ease off on maintenance work (at least non-safety work) when they know they are going to be shot of the stock.

(Yes, now I see there is a long thread on the 360s, but I hadn't twigged these were the Corby units.)



Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I meant London to Lutons, Bedford ... etc.

All very interesting comments though, thks to you and everyone.

I wouldn’t say the 360s are antiquated, just that they have been allowed to become quite careworn, and on top of that there have been some reliability issues (the possible underlying reasons for which have been debated elsewhere).

I’d say they were a good choice, but it is unfortunate they couldn’t be refurbished prior to launch.

My colleague would probably be quite happy if the peak services omitted Luton and Luton Airport Parkway, even if it simply meant extra pathing time. This and the Wellingborough platform alterations seem to be the big bugbears.

For off-peak users the whole thing is surely a major improvement, no real difference in stops, and an 8-car electric train in place of a 4 or 5-car diesel. But if you’re a peak commuter and you previously had a non-stop journey on an HST, I can see why you might be narked, especially with the unreliability.
 

A0

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I have a work colleague who travels into London from Wellingborough, he’s pretty dissatisfied, and says this is the general feeling locally.

Issues:
* Loss of non-stop or limited stop services to/from London at the times he travels, some of which were HSTs. This seems to be the no.1 gripe.
* Poor condition of the 360s, and lack of features such as tables
* Last minute platform alterations at Wellingborough, which apparently have on occasions caused people to miss trains
* Unreliability - both cancellations and short forms
* Too many intermediate calls

So let's deal with those "complaints" in turn:

1 - there were only a couple of "non stop" services from Wellingborough to London in recent years and at that they were only in the rush hour. The flip side was because they'd come from further afield there was no guarantee you'd get a seat so could spend ~1 hour standing.

2 - OK, the refub of the 360s has been done to death. It's on EMR's "to do" list, but like many things has been affected by external (Covid) factors which have screwed alot of things up.

3 - Last minute platform alterations used to happen before the 360s as well - and it was always a PITA. Possibly it's happening a bit more now because there are 4 tracks, where previously there were 3 and only 3 platforms.

4 - Unreliability - discussed repeatedly.

5 - "Too many" intermediate calls - the Connect services added 1 additional call to the "old" EMR timetable for most Wellingborough services - they used to be Bedford, Luton OR Luton Airport and St Pancras - now it's Bedford and both Lutons - so 3 stops. The 360s load more quickly and accelerate more quickly than the Meridians or HSTs used to, so the impact of the additional stop in terms of timings is pretty much negligible. Compare Wellingborough with St Neots where most trains have 6 stops (Sandy, Biggleswade, Arlesey, Hitchin, Stevenage and Finsbury Park) or Northampton where from the "new" timetable it's either 4 (Wolverton, MKC, Bletchley, Leighton Buzzard), 7 as previous plus Berkhamsted, Hemel and Watford Junction or Off Peak only where you can get an MK only.

To put it in context in the May timetable, Wellingborough has 2 trains between 7am and 8am both of which will get you to St Pancras *before* 9am - at 7.26 and 7.56 with a sub hour journey time. Northampton by comparison gets 3 - 7.07 which takes ~1h 25m to get to Euston, 7.15 which takes 1h 02m and 7.38 which takes 1h. *BUT* if you miss the 7.38 or it's cancelled the next one is the 8.05 which doesn't get you into London until 9.32 or the 8.24 which gets in at 9.24. So you'll be sitting around at Northampton for almost 30 mins for the next train and to add insult to injury that train will be almost 30 minutes slower, making you almost an hour late. At least at Wellingborough you'll get the 8.26 which means you'll only be about 30 mins late.
 

QSK19

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I’d say they were a good choice, but it is unfortunate they couldn’t be refurbished prior to launch.
I completely agree with this - once they have been fully refurbished and reliability issues ironed out, they will be very good trains with plenty of serviceable life left in then. If I were really picky, I would have preferred gangwayed stock; but nevertheless, I’m looking forward to seeing the end result post-refurbishment.
 

bramling

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So let's deal with those "complaints" in turn:

1 - there were only a couple of "non stop" services from Wellingborough to London in recent years and at that they were only in the rush hour. The flip side was because they'd come from further afield there was no guarantee you'd get a seat so could spend ~1 hour standing.

Whilst I completely agree that it was only a handful of non-stop services, and personally I’d certainly prefer an emptier train, clearly some Wellingborough users feel differently. I suppose the emptier train issue wasn’t relevant for the northbound journey in any case, though again one can argue that even here it better to have the seats taken by people going further afield. I can get why this would irritate Wellingborough users though, especially as part of the gripe seems to be the 360s get flooded with Luton passengers.

3 - Last minute platform alterations used to happen before the 360s as well - and it was always a PITA. Possibly it's happening a bit more now because there are 4 tracks, where previously there were 3 and only 3 platforms.

It’s certainly being claimed as a new issue. You may well be right that it’s simply happening more though. Ideally it would probably better if all up trains used the slow lines, but there seem to be reasons why this isn’t the case as I recall this cropped up on here before.

5 - "Too many" intermediate calls - the Connect services added 1 additional call to the "old" EMR timetable for most Wellingborough services - they used to be Bedford, Luton OR Luton Airport and St Pancras - now it's Bedford and both Lutons - so 3 stops. The 360s load more quickly and accelerate more quickly than the Meridians or HSTs used to, so the impact of the additional stop in terms of timings is pretty much negligible. Compare Wellingborough with St Neots where most trains have 6 stops (Sandy, Biggleswade, Arlesey, Hitchin, Stevenage and Finsbury Park) or Northampton where from the "new" timetable it's either 4 (Wolverton, MKC, Bletchley, Leighton Buzzard), 7 as previous plus Berkhamsted, Hemel and Watford Junction or Off Peak only where you can get an MK only.

I’d take slightly more issue here. If comparing to the GN Peterborough route, pre-Covid there would be faster services in the peaks, as well as in the evening, and a handful of tidal services at weekends, so catering for all the most popular travel times. You could board a train at St Neots which would call at only Biggleswade and Stevenage, and in some cases only Biggleswade. Again I get the feeling that the problem is more that the 360s heavily load with Luton passengers, which clearly they wouldn’t have had happen when it was a non-stop HST.

So in summary it seems that to please Wellingborough the following needs to happen:
* refurbish the 360s
* address the reliability issues
* find a way to stop all up trains on one platform or other
* remove the Luton calls

And in the longer term perhaps
* deliver the promised 12-cars

As to whether that list is reasonable, that’s for debate!
 

A0

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Whilst I completely agree that it was only a handful of non-stop services, and personally I’d certainly prefer an emptier train, clearly some Wellingborough users feel differently. I suppose the emptier train issue wasn’t relevant for the northbound journey in any case, though again one can argue that even here it better to have the seats taken by people going further afield. I can get why this would irritate Wellingborough users though, especially as part of the gripe seems to be the 360s get flooded with Luton passengers.



It’s certainly being claimed as a new issue. You may well be right that it’s simply happening more though. Ideally it would probably better if all up trains used the slow lines, but there seem to be reasons why this isn’t the case as I recall this cropped up on here before.



I’d take slightly more issue here. If comparing to the GN Peterborough route, pre-Covid there would be faster services in the peaks, as well as in the evening, and a handful of tidal services at weekends, so catering for all the most popular travel times. You could board a train at St Neots which would call at only Biggleswade and Stevenage, and in some cases only Biggleswade. Again I get the feeling that the problem is more that the 360s heavily load with Luton passengers, which clearly they wouldn’t have had happen when it was a non-stop HST.

So in summary it seems that to please Wellingborough the following needs to happen:
* refurbish the 360s
* address the reliability issues
* find a way to stop all up trains on one platform or other
* remove the Luton calls

And in the longer term perhaps
* deliver the promised 12-cars

As to whether that list is reasonable, that’s for debate!

No chance on the Luton calls - there is demand to travel to both Luton stations and you have several large employers easily accessible from those stations - University, Easyjet, TUI.
 

Merle Haggard

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It's perhaps worth pointing out that Wellingborough and Kettering (and Northampton, for that matter) aren't dormitory towns - we know and talk to our neighbours! - and there's local employment. Northamptonshire had a large number of station and line closures to leave only 4 stations (plus the marginal King's Sutton) - perhaps one of the most-affected counties - and for travel people don't consider rail or public transport* generally. None of my neighbours ever use public transport although most have jobs that involve travel. Of course, the 4 was increased to 5 by re-opening Corby, but people there managed without it for about 40 years, so may not be quick to take up the new travel opportunity.

If a prospective Wellingborough to London passenger looked at N.R.E.S. earlier this evening they would have found the 'cheapest fare' is £50. If they were travelling in. a group they might regard this as rather high. I don't think being told that Wellingborough was just outside the Network South East area in the days of British Rail and that there are other locations in a similar situation would alter their opinion. And that's the price that first meets the eye; people would not necessarily dig further. If you went past a shop with high prices against items displayed in the window, you might not go inside to see if (or even think that there was any likelihood of) 50% being knocked off!

*and inter-town buses have been poor since 1976, when the County Council declined to provide subsidy.
 

bramling

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No chance on the Luton calls - there is demand to travel to both Luton stations and you have several large employers easily accessible from those stations - University, Easyjet, TUI.

I wasn’t so much thinking about the Airport, but the town call could go. I agree it doesn’t really make sense from a holistic point of view, but it would clearly please Wellingborough users.
 

Mikw

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Definitely an increase in cheaper advance fares from Kettering where i usually have my day trips from. If you can be flexible it's usually possible to get a return to London for £25- £35.

Presumably these will dry up when the seating is reduced, which is a shame.

Journey times are decent as well. A non stop 222 does the London trip in 49-54 mins. the 360's in 60-65, despite stopping much more times.

So cheaper fares, more frequency and decent journey times - it's a thumbs up for me.
 

flitwickbeds

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I realise that I am an (extreme) edge case, but I live in Flitwick and have family in Market Harborough. I used to be able to do the journey with one change at Bedford (Thameslink FLT>BDM, East Midlands BDM>MHR)

Now the only way to do the journey is
Thameslink FLT>BDM
East Midlands BDM>KET
East Midlands KET>MHR

As these stations are only 5 stops apart on the same track with no branches (except Corby) it's too much fuss. I now drive.
 

Neptune

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I wasn’t so much thinking about the Airport, but the town call could go. I agree it doesn’t really make sense from a holistic point of view, but it would clearly please Wellingborough users.
It sounds like Wellingborough user(s) need to get a real problem. The attitude of not wanting passengers from other stations using ‘their’ commuter train quite frankly stinks.

On here there are constant calls for getting more people to use rail, unless of course it means their train is busier.
 

bramling

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It sounds like Wellingborough user(s) need to get a real problem. The attitude of not wanting passengers from other stations using ‘their’ commuter train quite frankly stinks.

On here there are constant calls for getting more people to use rail, unless of course it means their train is busier.

Thinking about this, there are a couple of factors to consider. Luton has at least 8tph Thameslink to London (4 of which are fairly fast), but this is down on pre-Covid IIRC. Secondly, the EMR 360 service is 8-car at present.

So it would seem to be the case that the shorter-than-originally-planned 360s are taking people from Luton displaced from Thameslink. *If* this really is filling up the 360s then I could see how this might be poorly received further north from people for whom the 360s are now their only service.

I’m not defending this view, but I can understand why it may exist. I’d certainly go as far as to say there may be a case to think again about the Luton (town) calls if Thameslink gets back to full service provision.
 
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bib

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I don't know if there were ever significant passenger flows, but having to change twice to get from anywhere north of Leicester to wellingborough/bedford/luton is quite off-putting, especially for getting to Luton airport.
 

baz962

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I realise that I am an (extreme) edge case, but I live in Flitwick and have family in Market Harborough. I used to be able to do the journey with one change at Bedford (Thameslink FLT>BDM, East Midlands BDM>MHR)

Now the only way to do the journey is
Thameslink FLT>BDM
East Midlands BDM>KET
East Midlands KET>MHR

As these stations are only 5 stops apart on the same track with no branches (except Corby) it's too much fuss. I now drive.
Erm. It's not. You can still get direct intercity from Bedford to market harborough , just not all day.
 

LowLevel

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Erm. It's not. You can still get direct intercity from Bedford to market harborough , just not all day.
Direct departues from Bedford to Market Harborough are at 0639 and 0711, wonderfully sociable visiting hours :lol:
 

ChrisC

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I don't know if there were ever significant passenger flows, but having to change twice to get from anywhere north of Leicester to wellingborough/bedford/luton is quite off-putting, especially for getting to Luton airport.
It’s even worse if you are making this type of journey to or from somewhere like St. Albans with 3 changes and very long journey times. The M1 certainly wins.
 

Envy123

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Joined
9 Apr 2015
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633
Location
Peterborough
My final destination is usually Farringdon and according to NRE, taking the EMR 360 service from Bedford and changing at St Pancras at my usual time is 5 minutes slower than the direct Thameslink train and with more hassle too. The return journey has exact same timings for both options, so better take the direct train for less hassle.

While at Peterborough, you can save time taking LNER to King’s Cross and changing at St Pancras. The return journeys are even faster.
 

baz962

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2017
Messages
3,543
Direct departues from Bedford to Market Harborough are at 0639 and 0711, wonderfully sociable visiting hours :lol:
Yes but you can. And anyway if I was visiting family I would want to go early and spend time with them.
 

Watershed

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Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
14,183
Location
UK
Yes but you can. And anyway if I was visiting family I would want to go early and spend time with them.
It's no more than a token service. For most practical intents and purposes this journey is no longer possible to make with a direct train.
 
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