What is the origin of flailing?

[4SRKT]

Why do bashers flail? I was asked this by an older gentleman at the East Lancs on Saturday, and I had to admit I didn't know. Also, what is the origin of shouting 'My Lords' or 'My Lordz' (opinions seem to vary on the correct spelling)? If anyone knows the answer to these questions, it's gotta be someone on this forum.

 

[25322]

Do they not teach anything at school nowadays:cry:

Flailing was a technique use to split the ears of grain from shoots when it was done by hand and involved beating the grain with joint sticks (rice flails or nunchucks(and not the ones for the nintendo wii)) until the grain was left on the ground and the chaff could be removed by hand (seperating the wheat from the chaff?) and now its mechanised it is more often known as 'Threshing'. The modern combine harvester does all these jobs in one.


So to answer you're question. flailers are disgruntled farmers who have lost their jobs thanks to combine harvesters and most likley come from wurzel land and are just angry at the world for loosing their jobs and want anyone alongsideb the railway line to know their disgust at the modern world!!

here endeth the history lesson.


Mind i hope I've made at least one person laugh

 

[Dennis]

Flailing has been going on for nearly 200 years - this shot from the Rainhill trials clearly shows at least one basher had got the gen over the telegraph and thought it would be fun to flail and bellow at the crowd. Most of these were invited gentry, hence bellowing 'my lordz'

 

[25322]

Thats a bloody good image for 200 years old!!

Oh look time travellers in the background they have 1970's 1980's clothes on!

Mind I do believe that that shot is actually the Grand Central summer stand in service!

 

[bluenoxid]

Mind i hope I've made at least one person laugh

Too Long

Mind I do believe that that shot is actually the Grand Central summer stand in service!

Someone has been telling you porkies. This is the Grand Central Summer Stand in. I hear that the government is quite proud of it and it is due to take on the Tram Train as the streaky bacon of choice

Grand Central stand in

 

[4SRKT]

So no REAL ideas then?????

 

[NSEFAN]

It probably came about in the same way as an internet meme. One person did it on some railtour, and everybody who saw it thought it was a good / funny idea and hence copied it.

Only except unlike the internet memes, flailing never gets boring!

 

[4SRKT]

Only except unlike the internet memes, flailing never gets boring!

Indeed it doesn't, although it does seem to be dying under the weight of official disapproval from just about everywhere, even from within the enthusiast fraternity itself. A recent short piece in Railway Magazine alluded to the practice as 'giving nazi-style salutes'. This is utterly disgraceful (and probably libellous) given that said magazine obviously knows about flailing and that it has nothing to do with nazism. That pompous clown Wolmar made a similar statement in the Mail on Sunday following the punch-up on the Capital Whistler, and I refuse to believe that he doesn't know any better either.

The use of aircon stock on railtours doesn't help matters either (have to get that in as it's my pet moan at the moment!).

My most enduring mental image of flailing was from the mid-80s when I was among the regular bashers on the Scarborough-Newcastle SSO (with a rock solid GD or TE NB 37, my lordz!), and everyone flailing away like mad as it rounded the corner into the down platform at Darlington. How was this harmful or dangerous? Happy days indeed.

 

[NSEFAN]

How was this harmful or dangerous?

I bet that a safety inspector can tell you all about the risks of leaning out of windows to wave your arm and shout: the door might fly open, you don't know what's coming around a corner... etc...

It does seem to be dying under the weight of official disapproval from just about everywhere, even from within the enthusiast fraternity itself

I suppose the idea is to keep the older stock going for as long as possible, and that won't happen if it is seen as a safety risk. A lot of old stock nowadays needs to be given safety exceptions to be allowed to work on the main network. The H&S people won't think twice about insisting that window bars are fitted, or even banning MK1 stock, if they see enthusiasts flailing.

Statistically, the number of flailing-related incidents is probably quite small, but H&S is very much a what-if sort of regime, and one way of minimising the risk is to prevent flailing. I'd hate to see MK1 stock, such as the Lymington 421 units or Chiltern 121 banned. I'd rather give up flailing if it means that heritage trains are allowed to keep running in mainline service.

 

[4SRKT]

I bet that a safety inspector can tell you all about the risks of leaning out of windows to wave your arm and shout: the door might fly open, you don't know what's coming around a corner... etc....

Well, as for shouting I quite deliberately hadn't referred to the whole bellowing thing, which is really little more than the sort of loutish behaviour that you get when lots of blokes get together and get drunk in any situation, and not hard to work out its origins. I am interested in the origins of the specific phrase "My Lordz" however.

In the specific case mentioned of pulling into Darlington from the south, everyone can see for several coach lengths ahead what's coming (a long, open platform). Most flailing occurred as trains were departing from or arriving at stations, where the speeds were low and obstacles predictable. You have to stick your arm out a hell of a long way to meet any obstacle anyway (except perhaps vegetation), so unless you're Mr Tickle you should be fine.

As for doors flying open, how often does this REALLY happen outside the most fevered fantasies of a foaming-at-the-mouth health and safety obsessive?

Statistically, the number of flailing-related incidents is probably quite small, but H&S is very much a what-if sort of regime, and one way of minimising the risk is to prevent flailing. I'd hate to see MK1 stock, such as the Lymington 421 units or Chiltern 121 banned. I'd rather give up flailing if it means that heritage trains are allowed to keep running in mainline service.

I'd also rather give up flailing than lose Mk Is etc (irrelevant really because as a sensible adult I haven't flailed for more than 20 years, but this doesn't mean I disapprove of it), but this is about more than just flailing. It's about the idea that people should give up something almost completely harmless just in case someone in an unearned and unwarranted position of power should irrationally and without warning decree that it's undesirable in some way. We are being scared into believing that things that rationally we know to be either safe or to carry a minimal and acceptable level of risk, are dangerous.

 

[Chester025]

That pompous clown Wolmar made a similar statement in the Mail on Sunday following the punch-up on the Capital Whistler, and I refuse to believe that he doesn't know any better either.

What punch up???

The use of aircon stock on railtours doesn't help matters either (have to get that in as it's my pet moan at the moment!).

How do you come to that conclusion? Less windows to hang out of = less chance to flail.

 

[4SRKT]

How do you come to that conclusion? Less windows to hang out of = less chance to flail.

What I meant was that fewer windows doesn't help the promotion of flailing.

 

[Moodster020]

It is something to do with that old 60's music track,

The one that goes:

" I Am The (My) Lord (z) of Hellfire & i bring you...."

 

[90019]

The one that goes:

" I Am The (My) Lord (z) of Hellfire & i bring you...."

Fire - Arthur Brown

But unfortunately, it's god, not lord

 

[4SRKT]

It is something to do with that old 60's music track,

The one that goes:

" I Am The (My) Lord (z) of Hellfire & i bring you...."

Hehehe!

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

How do you come to that conclusion? Less windows to hang out of = less chance to flail.

Exactly, Less Windows to Hang out of or open less chance to hear the thrash......

 

[4SRKT]

For the sake of clarity, I think not being able to lean out or hear thrash is A BAD THING. I was moaning about aircons because I believe their increased use of railtours is one of the factors leading to the death of flailing.

 

[kyrano]

So no REAL ideas then?????

it started in the early 80s when a group of enthusiasts enjoyed bashing class 40 loco,s it gives them a buzz when they hear the engine on full power , like 37s the growling noise gets then excited shouting my lordzz ect its over excitment really , then after fliling bellowing we had the reading wreckers smashing up mk 1 compoes , whilst bashing 50 s .
thats why i stick to virgin 57s as they don't have a bunch of idiots liking them..

 

[Chester025]

I was moaning about aircons because I believe their increased use of railtours is one of the factors leading to the death of flailing.

:roll:

 

[87015]

:roll:

Aircons will lead to me doing less and less railtours (with "loud" traction at any rate) and I know of many who feel the same. And we don't spend much, if any, time at vestibule droplights.

 

[Chester025]

I was moaning about aircons because I believe their increased use of railtours is one of the factors leading to the death of flailing.

Ok maybe I should explain my comments a bit more.

I'm sorry, but in this H&S age 'flailing' is frowned upon, and if people do flail on tours MK1s will be banned and aircons will be used. I personally don't like Aircons, but that still wouldn't put me off doing a tour.

So if you want to enjoy heritage traction on the mainline in MK1 stock, flailing has got to stop.

 

[kyrano]

Ok maybe I should explain my comments a bit more.

I'm sorry, but in this H&S age 'flailing' is frowned upon, and if people do flail on tours MK1s will be banned and aircons will be used. I personally don't like Aircons, but that still wouldn't put me off doing a tour.

So if you want to enjoy heritage traction on the mainline in MK1 stock, flailing has got to stop.

bring on the Aircons !! get rid of the idiots at long last

 

[theblackwatch]

Ok maybe I should explain my comments a bit more.

I'm sorry, but in this H&S age 'flailing' is frowned upon, and if people do flail on tours MK1s will be banned and aircons will be used. I personally don't like Aircons, but that still wouldn't put me off doing a tour.

So if you want to enjoy heritage traction on the mainline in MK1 stock, flailing has got to stop.

Totally agree with you on this one - I would also suggest the 4SRKT may have got it the wrong way round. Perhaps a factor in the use of Aircons is as a result of idiots flailing. Or perhaps the general public (who many tours are aimed at) want to travel in air-cinditioned comfort rather than a 50 year old draughty Mk 1 which was retired from normal passenger service 20 years ago.

 

[4SRKT]

Totally agree with you on this one - I would also suggest the 4SRKT may have got it the wrong way round. Perhaps a factor in the use of Aircons is as a result of idiots flailing. Or perhaps the general public (who many tours are aimed at) want to travel in air-cinditioned comfort rather than a 50 year old draughty Mk 1 which was retired from normal passenger service 20 years ago.

I'm sure you're right about aircons being at least in part because of flailing. Perhaps the question should be at what point did flailers become 'idiots'? This was an accepted part of the scene for a long time, and before anyone trots out the H&S argument, how many people were ever hurt doing this? This is of course as I have stated part of a wider nanny state problem, rather than anything to do with bashing.

On tours aimed at the general public, use aircons by all means (again, I have said this already). However, on tours hauled by a pair of 56s, or run by Flamboyant Tours who obviously aim both the traction and lines at enthusiasts rather than the public, this argument doesn't stack up. A member of the public doesn't care if there is a pair of 56s up front. Probably wouldn't even complain about a duff!

 

[theblackwatch]

I'm sure you're right about aircons being at least in part because of flailing. Perhaps the question should be at what point did flailers become 'idiots'? This was an accepted part of the scene for a long time, and before anyone trots out the H&S argument, how many people were ever hurt doing this? This is of course as I have stated part of a wider nanny state problem, rather than anything to do with bashing.

On tours aimed at the general public, use aircons by all means (again, I have said this already). However, on tours hauled by a pair of 56s, or run by Flamboyant Tours who obviously aim both the traction and lines at enthusiasts rather than the public, this argument doesn't stack up. A member of the public doesn't care if there is a pair of 56s up front. Probably wouldn't even complain about a duff!

I can think of at least 3 instances where people have been injured while flailing. On one example, the TOC actually wanted to remove the loco which was hauling the train from the tour.

Tours such as the Retro trip and the Flamboyant specials aren't aimed solely at enthusiasts - I expect the majority of punters on the Huddersfield-Bath will be the general public, and James has said that the areas which have filled up quickest are first class and dining which seems to back this up. Stick some interesting motive power on the front and you get a couple of coaches worth of cranks, filling what would probably be empty seats and hopefully ensuring the train breaks even.

 

[4SRKT]

I can think of at least 3 instances where people have been injured while flailing. On one example, the TOC actually wanted to remove the loco which was hauling the train from the tour.

Tours such as the Retro trip and the Flamboyant specials aren't aimed solely at enthusiasts - I expect the majority of punters on the Huddersfield-Bath will be the general public, and James has said that the areas which have filled up quickest are first class and dining which seems to back this up. Stick some interesting motive power on the front and you get a couple of coaches worth of cranks, filling what would probably be empty seats and hopefully ensuring the train breaks even.

OK, 3 injuries out of how much flailing? Presumably injuries to themselves and not others. I can see that within an H&S obsessed culture this is bad, but it's the appropriateness of this culture I'm bothered about, and the infringements of free will that have to be endured on a hopeless quest to eliminate risk.

Few tours are aimed solely at enthusiasts, I agree, but why does the choice have to be presented as one between 'nice' aircons and 'clapped out' Mk Is? It is perfectly possible for a rake of Mk IIa/b/c stock to brought up a high standard that would suit both enthusiasts and normals.

 

[90019]

I think they should run most of the train as mk2s for most people, then have 2 or 3 mk1s up behind the loco(s) for the enthsiasts

Also, I think people flailing look like idiots, tbh.

 

[Moodster020]

I think they should run most of the train as mk2s for most people, then have 2 or 3 mk1s up behind the loco(s) for the enthsiasts

Gets my vote!

Best of bothworlds. Or just refit mk2/mk3's with open-able windows

 

[90019]

Best of bothworlds. Or just refit mk2/mk3's with open-able windows

They have openable windows

 

[4SRKT]

Also, I think people flailing look like idiots, tbh.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that it's a harmful activity. If we stop people from doing stuff simply because some other people think that they look like idiots, then there won't be a lot of people left doing anything other than 'socially acceptable' things like being interested in cars or talking loudly about premiership football in pubs.

How much longer will I remain a First Class Passenger before being moved up again?