What makes a train good?

[DeeGee]

I'm keen on travelling sustainably, which is why I read this forum. I can't tell you many class numbers for trains, have very little technical knowledge, but I make a few journeys a year for leisure purposes on a couple of lines.

Having lurked about here a lot I'm aware that some classes of train are preferred to others, and I'm wondering what the community here look for in a train, at least in terms of the passenger experience.

I think I'm lucky in that most of my travel is on Transpennine South and East Coast, the 185 trains are reasonably comfortable for shorter journeys and the HSTs suit me for journeys to London and Newcastle.

However, I find the lack of catering on the 185s to be less pleasant on the longer journeys across the Pennines, the trolley often only comes past once if at all - I know I can seek out the trolley, though.

I prefer the shop arrangement on Pendolino, but I don't think the trains are as comfortable, there's less of a view.

I find the seating to be comfortable on a Javelin, not usually on them long enough to rate otherwise, though.

I used to travel on Pacers from Donny to Hull and have no fond memories of those, although I understand their value to the industry as a whole.

If you were in charge of commissioning some brand new trains, with the passenger experience in mind what would you insist on having on them?

 

[PermitToTravel]

I'd just like a train that:

• has working air con
• does not smell like **** inside
• is not a Faraday cage

 

[DarloRich]

I'd just like a train that:

• has working air con
• does not smell like **** inside
• is not a Faraday cage

If I may add a few more:

• Seats with padding that consists of more than a week old copy of the Times
• A seat design other than the horrible one in Voyager/Pendolino
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• FREE wifi
• A buffet (not a shop!) AND a trolley
• Does not vibrate like crazy (NO underfloor engines on long distance trains)
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Is not a Voyager

 

[backontrack]

If I may add a few more:

• Seats with padding that consists of more than a week old copy of the Times
• A seat design other than the horrible one in Voyager/Pendolino
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• FREE wifi
• A buffet (not a shop!) AND a trolley
• Does not vibrate like crazy (NO underfloor engines on long distance trains)
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Is not a Voyager

I think a Scotrail Class 170 may qualify, not sure about anything else.

I'd make that:

• Seats with good, non-threadbare padding
• Non-lumpy seats without missing springs
• An armrest on either side
• A good, comfortable seat design
• Working air con/openable windows
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• A trolley at least: on express routes, a buffet as well
• Does not vibrate like crazy
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Information provided in a succinct and obvious manner, as so to avoid grumbling passengers as best as possible
• If possible, a nice livery and moquette. Scotrail (both liveries) is smart.
• No obtrusive smells or noises
• Ample luggage and bicycle storage without overcrowding
• A luggage rack that can take plenty of weight
• Good disabled access
• Well-positioned priority seats
• Is not a Faraday Cage
• Is not a Pacer

 

[overtonchris]

For me, the prime requisites (especially for any distance) are:-

1) A well-padded comfortable seat
2) Seats that line up with windows (at least partially!!)
3) Have working toilets that cannot be smelt from neighbouring counties
4) Have decent a/c or heating that can be adjusted by the train staff without too much faff
5) Have a decent P.A. system that is not either deafening or "mumbly"....Or has a decent sign-blazer with all the relevant info on.....

My favourites are HST's and 444's. (and weirdly I rather like the rumbling of the SWT 159s!)

Other than that, I'm not too fussy!

 

[Emyr]

I think a Scotrail Class 170 may qualify, not sure about anything else.

I'd make that:

• Seats with good, non-threadbare padding
• Non-lumpy seats without missing springs
• An armrest on either side
• A good, comfortable seat design
• Working air con/openable windows
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• A trolley at least: on express routes, a buffet as well
• Does not vibrate like crazy
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Information provided in a succinct and obvious manner, as so to avoid grumbling passengers as best as possible
• If possible, a nice livery and moquette. Scotrail (both liveries) is smart.
• No obtrusive smells or noises
• Ample luggage and bicycle storage without overcrowding
• A luggage rack that can take plenty of weight
• Good disabled access
• Well-positioned priority seats
• Is not a Faraday Cage
• Is not a Pacer

Surely the last point is precluded by all the other points?

 

[Lockwood]

Gets me from A to B
I can put a bike on it
I can sit down

 

[GarethJohn]

Doesn't breakdown & has somewhere to sit.

 

[DarloRich]

LIST.........

A much better list than my slightly facetious one ;- )

In all honesty I don’t mind a non crowded pacer for a short distance journey (say Darlington to Middlesbrough). In fact I had one from Leeds to Sheffield recently and it wasn’t at all unpleasant! Now your Voyager is unpleasant at ALL times…………
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Doesn't breakdown & has somewhere to sit.

this is what years of poor provision does - it lowers expectations! How the TOCs must rejoice!

 

[GatwickDepress]

• An airy interior using bright yet neutral colours
• Airline seats with back tables.
• Nice big windows, with which to watch the world go by with.

I'm very easy to please, and I'm one of the few who think a 377 is a step up from a CIG.

 

[Yew]

I'd also add nice vestibules. As much as I like Mk3's the vestibule area is nowhere near as nice as on more modern stock.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd also add nice vestibules. As much as I like Mk3's the vestibule area is nowhere near as nice as on more modern stock.

But the mkiii/iv vestibule does offer more "ad hoc" passenger storage space

 

[bairy]

What is being meant by "not a Faraday cage"?

My addition to the list would be paper ticket reservations so that you can see at a glance what's reserved without having to gawp at the tiny display over every seat. Stupid Voyagers

 

[kevconnor]

I think it depends on the purpose of the journey, I am OK to put up with a pacer for the short 15 mins commute into Manchester for myself but any more than that leaves me needing to be restrained in a straight jacket due to the pathological hatred of them however generally they do need to have the following

- not have two forms of heating / air con level (the intensity of a Turkish bath in summer and then cold enough to freeze the nether regions off a brass monkey in summer)
- not smell like a sumo wrestlers jock strap.
- stable ride that does not leaving me feeling like I've just got on a bucking bronco at the fair

 

[Emyr]

What is being meant by "not a Faraday cage"?

My addition to the list would be paper ticket reservations so that you can see at a glance what's reserved without having to gawp at the tiny display over every seat. Stupid Voyagers

A faraday cage is a metal container which blocks electromagnetic waves.

Radio
Phones
Wifi
etc.

 

[kevconnor]

What is being meant by "not a Faraday cage"?

If you ever were on one think of it in terms of the experience of riding in a BR Class 504.

 

[TDK]

From my point of view a train the accelerates well to linespeed and you can stop on a sixpence is good.

 

[cactustwirly]

A train with comfortable seats and a nice smooth ride!

 

[FQ]

If I may add a few more:

• Seats with padding that consists of more than a week old copy of the Times
• A seat design other than the horrible one in Voyager/Pendolino
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• FREE wifi
• A buffet (not a shop!) AND a trolley
• Does not vibrate like crazy (NO underfloor engines on long distance trains)
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Is not a Voyager

Class 67 by quinnsrailwayphotos, on Flickr

Probably the train that comes closer, and good they are too.

 

[Minilad]

One that goes when I ask it to go. And stops when I ask it to stop.

 

[RailAleFan]

I don't know what class and can't go into much detail as I only had the pleasure of travelling once on a Chiltern Railways service from Banbury to London but it was a lovely train. Standard felt like first, spacious, comfy seats, plug sockets at most seats, and free WiFi. Lovely train.

Second best, again a one-off was an East Coast service from York to London. I think it was an HST, but again, standard felt like first. Maybe they were re-furbed old first class carriages that kept the same seating plan, I don't know.

Pendolinos

I know they have less cabin space to work with as they have to tilt within the loading gauge but you would have thought more effort could have been put into making them feel less cramped. The air conditioning is noisy. You get thrown around all over the place, especially in the front couple of carriages. Half the seats have almost no adjacent "window". Not enough plug sockets. Reminders to assume that the person sat next to you is a terrorist every 5 minutes. Often smelly. Other than that they're OK

XC Voyagers

Nice trains, plug sockets all over the place, plenty of leg room. Feels like they're not entirely comfortable doing 100mph+

LM (the ones that operate the Liverpool to B'ham route)

Secret is out over the location of the sole plug socket in standard class so can be a bit of a scramble for it. Non table seats are very cramped though, laptop right on top of you on the drop-down table.

FGW (HSTs London to Reading)

Those plug sockets Absolutely flush with the table and almost entirely unusable unless you have a 3-way block with you! Bless.

 

[bairy]

A faraday cage is a metal container which blocks electromagnetic waves.

Radio
Phones
Wifi
etc.

Ooh, I get that with voyagers and pendos. Can't get 3g, gps, phone signal, anything. My network (3) isn't in their "boosted" list.

I don't know what class and can't go into much detail as I only had the pleasure of travelling once on a Chiltern Railways service from Banbury to London but it was a lovely train. Standard felt like first, spacious, comfy seats, plug sockets at most seats, and free WiFi. Lovely train.

As fishquinn showed, it'll either be one of the few daily 67 + mk3s or a 168. They run B'ham Moor Street to London Marylebone.

I've used them both a few times, both are very nice though the mk3s are much nicer IMO. The seats are 2 + 2, but their wideness feels like 1 + 2. I dunno how they do that.

 

[jc71]

If I may add a few more:

• Seats with padding that consists of more than a week old copy of the Times
• A seat design other than the horrible one in Voyager/Pendolino
• Seats that line up with the windows
• Windows larger than the Pendolino vision slit
• Plugs that work at each seat
• Tables of sufficient size to facilitate the use of a standard lap top computer
• FREE wifi
• A buffet (not a shop!) AND a trolley
• Does not vibrate like crazy (NO underfloor engines on long distance trains)
• Is decorated and lit in an uplifting, bright way
• Is not a Voyager

How hard can it be? It's as though units are designed by a committee that has never met.

 

[yorksrob]

Comfortable seats with good cushioning, opening windows, some tables, electric sockets, toilets like the EMT HST and a buffet.

 

[dangie]

One that BLOCKS mobile phone signals.

Would that be a Faraday Cage.....??

 

[455driver]

has decent 1+1 seating in a separate area.
Has more than one ill-fitting door between me and the freight I am hauling.
Windows that dont rattle.
Gangway doors that dont leak.
Good view out the front (struggle with that one a bit)
Isnt too hot or cold when using the mark 1 air con system (opening side windows)
If I must use the mark 2 (proper) air con system it isnt too noisy or too eye drying.


Oh you mean from the passenger point of view!
In that case I dont care!

 

[fowler9]

A faraday cage is a metal container which blocks electromagnetic waves.

Radio
Phones
Wifi
etc.

I am guessing the poster knows what a Faraday Cage is but is wondering what this would be in railway terms? I could be wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For me personally anything that isn't a 2 car 158 heading from Reading to Liverpool on a Bank Holiday in August when the Reading Festival has just let out and the platform has hundreds of people on it. Back when there used to be a train from Reading to Liverpool didn't it once have more than 8 coaches. I think that was the day I realised the railways had become a business and not a service.

 

[KX03HZY]

What I like adds up to the loco hauled Mk3 sets on Greater Anglia. Lots of windows, tables, comfy seats, and buffet

 

[scarby]

What makes a train good? Being a Met Cam 101 unit, I guess.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I am guessing the poster knows what a Faraday Cage is but is wondering what this would be in railway terms? I could be wrong.

I just meant any train inside which my mobile phone doesn't work, which is unfortunately the majority of modern ones