What to do with abusive passengers?

[thenorthern]

Earlier on today I was on a CrossCity Line train and some girls were using E-Cigs so my mum asked them to stop which they refused saying it wasn't illegal so my mum went to fetch the guard. In the end the guard spoke to them but the girls started making abusive comments and videos of my mum and after they got off the train they made some more abusive comments, they also took a massive drag of ecig and blew it in our faces.

Is it worth making a complaint to British Transport Police or West Midlands Railway about it?

 

[221129]

Earlier on today I was on a CrossCity Line train and some girls were using E-Cigs so my mum asked them to stop which they refused saying it wasn't illegal so my mum went to fetch the guard. In the end the guard spoke to them but the girls started making abusive comments and videos of my mum and after they got off the train they made some more abusive comments, they also took a massive drag of ecig and blew it in our faces.

Is it worth making a complaint to British Transport Police or West Midlands Railway about it?

What would your complaint to WMT be about?

 

[pt_mad]

Earlier on today I was on a CrossCity Line train and some girls were using E-Cigs so my mum asked them to stop which they refused saying it wasn't illegal so my mum went to fetch the guard. In the end the guard spoke to them but the girls started making abusive comments and videos of my mum and after they got off the train they made some more abusive comments, they also took a massive drag of ecig and blew it in our faces.

Is it worth making a complaint to British Transport Police or West Midlands Railway about it?

You could do. If nothing else, if you give a complete account of the incident and you know where the group got off the train, the BTP may request CCTV footage. The individuals may be known to them.

Depending on what they said it may be treated as a crime. If the CCTV doesn't show abusive behaviour you may need a witness. If the CCTV does show threatening behaviour the BTP may choose to persue it and will have to attempt to find out who the individuals were.

However the sad reality is there is so much anti social behaviour in the railways today that if it wasn't dealt with at the time there's a fair chance there just wouldn't be the resources to do anything about this. Unless like I say it was serious abuse such as threats or racism etc etc. Staff get sworn at abused threatened and half the time nothing is done about that except a reprimand if the police happen to be nearby.

Think of these trains full of tens and tens of football fans shouting jeering chanting opinions etc, making a mess, swearing in front of kids and most of the time the BTP allow then them to travel and just make sure there's no violence. There's no law to ensure people are polite, sociable, considerate and travel with good manners, although I really wish there was.

 

[Raul_Duke]

[QUOTE="pt_mad, post: 3352560, member: 12198] Think of these trains full of tens and tens of football fans shouting jeering chanting opinions etc, making a mess, swearing in front of kids and most of the time the BTP allow then them to travel and just make sure there's no violence. There's no law to ensure people are polite, sociable, considerate and travel with good manners, although I really wish there was.[/QUOTE]

That’s a bit of an unfair stereotype.

Yes they can be a bit boisterous, but football fans tend to be families and more diverse than even a few years ago.

It’s not like the days then the guard would just lock themselves in the back and hope nothing g to valuable went through the window. Although I appreciate it can be intimidating if you’re not a fan and on the train with them.

The absoloute worse states I’ve ever seen Trains in have been after pi**ed up middle-class, “professional,” commuters on a Friday evening and over Christmas.

 

[thenorthern]

What would your complaint to WMT be about?

My mum spoke to the guard and he suggested to make a complaint about it.

 

[pt_mad]

My mum spoke to the guard and he suggested to make a complaint about it.

Presumably the guard meant a complaint to the police? The only thing you could complain to the train company about is if you reported the smoking of an ecig to the guard and they did nothing (even still this is not misconduct in any way as the guard isn't there as law enforcement), or because you reported the group being abusive, asked for action to be taken by the train crew and you feel no action was taken (as far as you know).

Otherwise, crime wise it'd be BTP. Like I say it's probably worth doing for police intellegence as a report will be made out and probably CCTV requested as long as you know where the individuals were either on the train or at which station and times.

If they were gesturing in your face and it's on CCTV there is a chance of a prosecution. Either way it's good for incident stats and crime stats as it's no good police and TOCs thinking a train is running around safe and a station safe at x time if in fact trouble is occuring and stats need to show that.

To poster above the football fans scenario was just an example which seemed the most obvious but yes I would say a large rowdy loud swearing group or jolly beered up individuals could easy be intimidating and some may give out abuse .Bound to happen at times. They may abuse rival fans. Do the police make arrests? Only usually if violence or serious threats are involved and usually only at the time and not later.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Earlier on today I was on a CrossCity Line train and some girls were using E-Cigs so my mum asked them to stop which they refused saying it wasn't illegal so my mum went to fetch the guard. In the end the guard spoke to them but the girls started making abusive comments and videos of my mum and after they got off the train they made some more abusive comments, they also took a massive drag of ecig and blew it in our faces.

Is it worth making a complaint to British Transport Police or West Midlands Railway about it?

Yes absolutely. All stats build a picture of where and when problems are occurring and what could possibly be done to help prevent reoccurances.

 

[thenorthern]

It was some 20ish year old girls, they had been drinking which itself isn't a problem but it was making their behaviour worse. I have made a complaint to British Transport Police and West Midlands Railway so I will see what happens.

 

[AlterEgo]

My mum spoke to the guard and he suggested to make a complaint about it.

Nothing will happen.

This is just someone in a service industry giving the customer what they feel may be a solution or outlet that doesn’t involve them.

 

[sheff1]

Think of these trains full of tens and tens of football fans shouting jeering chanting opinions etc, making a mess, swearing in front of kids and most of the time the BTP allow then them to travel and just make sure there's no violence. There's no law to ensure people are polite, sociable, considerate and travel with good manners, although I really wish there was.

So, only 12 mins before the introduction of completely irrelevant stereotyping of football fans

There is, of course, a relevant law - Railway Byelaw 6.

 

[Hadders]

By all means make a complaint. It will count in the stats but absolutely nothing will be done be way of an investigation. The police do not have sufficient resources and have more important things to worry about.

 

[Pete_uk]

Did you take a picture of them?

 

[pt_mad]

So, only 12 mins before the introduction of completely irrelevant stereotyping of football fans

There is, of course, a relevant law - Railway Byelaw 6.

Many TOCs themselves put out Saturday staff messages asking staff to report any large groups of football fans asap to the control who may inform BTP. As large groups can be the source of problems.

Hence why footfall matches are so well policed, compared to some other sporting events which hardly see any police only security.

 

[507 001]

So, only 12 mins before the introduction of completely irrelevant stereotyping of football fans

There is, of course, a relevant law - Railway Byelaw 6.

Stereotype or not, it’s not an unfair judgement of the behaviour of a lot of football fans.
I’ve lost count of the number of times Metrolink trams have had to be withdrawn from service due to damage caused by football supporters.
The usual trick is for them to punch holes in the roof panels.
If they’re not doing that then they are shouting and swearing etc.
I’ve had PassComs being pulled only to hear a torrent of abusive language about some over-paid footballer or whatever.
I’ve been verbally abused through an open cab window from the opposite platform by a group of Ashton Curzon FC fans.

The list of problems goes on and on.

So no, you can’t tell me it’s unfair.

 

[pt_mad]

Stereotype or not, it’s not an unfair judgement of the behaviour of a lot of football fans.
I’ve lost count of the number of times Metrolink trams have had to be withdrawn from service due to damage caused by football supporters.
The usual trick is for them to punch holes in the roof panels.
If they’re not doing that then they are shouting and swearing etc.
I’ve had PassComs being pulled only to hear a torrent of abusive language about some over-paid footballer or whatever.
I’ve been verbally abused through an open cab window from the opposite platform by a group of Ashton Curzon FC fans.

The list of problems goes on and on.

So no, you can’t tell me it’s unfair.

TOCs will put out messages of where large groups of fans are if known. And BT Police may be arranged to be there.

This would be unlikely to be the case of it was say the wrestling or the ice hockey on at the local arena and it was sold out. Like it or not fans do carry a higher risk than regular groups and this is recognised in the rail industry whether any of us like it or not.

 

[bb21]

Can we please move away from the argument about stereotyping football fans please? There are bad apples in all sports as I have had to deal with equally loutish behaviour from rugby and cricket fans, businessmen on the way back from a meeting, stag/hen parties, middle-aged women on a day out, etc. Football fans probably are more visible than other sports due to more fixtures and more travel, and this discussion has been done to death.

Please try and focus on the original core topic.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have seen many tweets from passengers asking the TOC to sort out the behaviour of groups of people travelling back from football matches, especially on Saturdays, who are drunk, use racist language, generally causing a nuisance of themselves and sometimes putting passengers into a state of fear This can often affect families with children. The usual response by the TOC Twitter fed is to ask if they have reported this to the guards or they can text the BTP Police.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was of course this high-profile case of Eddie Jones being abused by rugby fans at Manchester Oxford Road on Sunday, which was filmed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43240056
This was after similar abuse in Glasgow earlier, and on a VT service to London later.

British Transport Police (BTP) told BBC Sport it received a report of a further incident as Jones travelled on the train from Manchester to London later that day.
Officers met the train at Euston, after a report of verbal abuse towards a man on board. No arrests were made but enquiries continue

With the BBC and BTP involved, something may well happen on this one.
Mind you, the Aussies are quite capable of giving verbal abuse, even at cricket matches.

 

[Trainfan344]

I had a 21 Year old female start causing trouble on a Blackpool service last summer, she was smoking an e-cig and asked to stop by several passengers, she was obviously drunk and very vocal, myself and a member of staff on board reported it to the guard, as it got to the point the entire carriage was arguing, BTP informed and arrested the female for presumably public order offences... Certainly an interesting start to my trip!

 

[al78]

What to do with abusive passengers?

Smack them in the face. Maybe a few doses of pain will make them think whether the consequences are worth inflicting crapness on others . Of course, if you do that, there will suddenly be plenty of police available to arrest and charge you with assault.

 

[theageofthetra]

There was of course this high-profile case of Eddie Jones being abused by rugby fans at Manchester Oxford Road on Sunday, which was filmed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43240056
This was after similar abuse in Glasgow earlier, and on a VT service to London later.

With the BBC and BTP involved, something may well happen on this one.
Mind you, the Aussies are quite capable of giving verbal abuse, even at cricket matches.

Go to a match in NZ!

 

[pt_mad]

What to do with abusive passengers?

Smack them in the face. Maybe a few doses of pain will make them think whether the consequences are worth inflicting crapness on others . Of course, if you do that, there will suddenly be plenty of police available to arrest and charge you with assault.

If the same as is done with them in town centres at night with drunk abusive members of the public? Not a lot .Get the police and send them home with a talking to.

Trouble is this is a wide problem among society on all walks. All the rail industry can do is staff up and show a presence and vigilance. Keeping a second person on the train at all times and in all circumstances would help. And keep stations staffed.

 

[Bromley boy]

What to do with abusive passengers?

Smack them in the face.

Only when not in uniform .