Which little-used stations might be candidates for closure in the new age of cost-cutting?

[Bletchleyite]

Clapham has higher user figures than Wennington so it must be doing something better.

There is no point closing this sort of station unless closing the line or if it causes line capacity issues which it doesn't. It costs very little to have it.

 

[30907]

Clapham has higher user figures than Wennington so it must be doing something better.

It may be a good way from the village but it's a starting off point for leisure users (as well as now having a decent train service).

 

[Ken H]

It may be a good way from the village but it's a starting off point for leisure users (as well as now having a decent train service).

If I were going up Ingleborough via Gaping Gill, and I were from Leeds, I would get the train to Settle then get the bus to Clapham. Tedious walk from the station.

 

[lachlan]

I accept that I'm an armchair planner here, but even so, given the very poor usage figures (even pre-Covid), couldn't those few people in the one village to lose its station manage the walk? Since even the morning 'semi-fast' into Inverness doesn't stop at one of the two (surprisingly, perhaps), that surely shows how much Scotrail values the traffic potential of the settlements.

I know it won't happen (to save maybe 2 minutes max, not worth the political fall out), but you'd think it might be considered. These two stops make Harling Road look genuinely busy.

What would be the point of closing them? They're both request stops iirc and dropping them won't make the Far North line competitive with road.

 

[70014IronDuke]

What would be the point of closing them? They're both request stops iirc and dropping them won't make the Far North line competitive with road.

True, but then why does Scotrail not bother offering them on its 'fast' morning train from the north. Clearly its managers think that even the 3 or 4 minutes saved by omitting them even as request stops is worthwhile for the overall benefit of longer distance passengers. Every intermediate stop, even if request, has a negative impact on the longer distance passenger who does not require or use it.

 

[steamybrian]

I will add in my contribution from the Ashford to Hastings line..

....Doleham....

Served by a handful of trains per day each way a couple each way in the morning peak, a couple each way in the evening peak and one late at night..
Only serves a row of cottages and a couple of farms.
When the line is closed for engineering work the station cannot be served by bus as the road serving the station is a narrow country lane.
I cannot understand how the passenger numbers appear to be high and would interested to read how many regular commuters use it.
There are still maintenance costs for the upkeep of the single platform and shelter.

 

[lachlan]

True, but then why does Scotrail not bother offering them on its 'fast' morning train from the north. Clearly its managers think that even the 3 or 4 minutes saved by omitting them even as request stops is worthwhile for the overall benefit of longer distance passengers. Every intermediate stop, even if request, has a negative impact on the longer distance passenger who does not require or use it.

There only appears to be 6 minutes difference between that morning skip-stop train (that also skips some others like Scotscalder and Altnabreac) and the slower later train if I've read the timetables correctly. On a journey longer than four hours I doubt they're doing it for passengers' sake. Begs the question of why they are skipped then, maybe the slightly shorter journey time is needed to make the whole timetable work or its a pathing issue?

 

[Kite159]

I will add in my contribution from the Ashford to Hastings line..

....Doleham....

Served by a handful of trains per day each way a couple each way in the morning peak, a couple each way in the evening peak and one late at night..
Only serves a row of cottages and a couple of farms.
When the line is closed for engineering work the station cannot be served by bus as the road serving the station is a narrow country lane.
I cannot understand how the passenger numbers appear to be high and would interested to read how many regular commuters use it.
There are still maintenance costs for the upkeep of the single platform and shelter.

Doleham is always a mystery at why it has such high passenger numbers for the number of trains which serve it. However how much money would be saved by closing the station?

 

[bramling]

I will add in my contribution from the Ashford to Hastings line..

....Doleham....

Served by a handful of trains per day each way a couple each way in the morning peak, a couple each way in the evening peak and one late at night..
Only serves a row of cottages and a couple of farms.
When the line is closed for engineering work the station cannot be served by bus as the road serving the station is a narrow country lane.
I cannot understand how the passenger numbers appear to be high and would interested to read how many regular commuters use it.
There are still maintenance costs for the upkeep of the single platform and shelter.

Back in DEMU days when it had an hourly service, in my experience more often than not someone would get on or off there. That was with an hourly service though.

 

[SuperNova]

To be honest I was surprised Ravensthorpe is set to survive the upgrade. There's not much immediately surrounding the station besides light industry. The upgrade does however separate the fast and slow services as well as allowing the currently non-existent Wakefield service to call, so perhaps this fancy rebuilt station could encourage development in the area.

There was at one point a suggestion to close both Ravensthorpe and Mirfield, replacing them with a new Mirfield station somewhere between the two (so not serving either place particularly well). Thankfully this crackpot idea seems to have died.

4000 houses are set to be built a stones throw from Ravensthorpe station.

 

[PTR 444]

Finstock and Combe are very unlikely to survive if Wolvercot-Charlbury is redoubled in full.

What’s stopping these stations from being closed before any redoubling takes place?

The nearest residential area to Combe is actually in Long Hanborough, and although slightly further from Hanborough station, it is much more convenient to travel there than it is to Combe due to it being on the main road and bus route (Combe village is a mile further from its namesake station). As things currently stand, I see absolutely no point in Combe station remaining open.

There is probably more of a case for keeping Finstock open as it is the nearest station to its namesake village, but even so it has a direct bus to Charlbury so one could just change there.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I would close Deighton!

Although I would only do it once (Pigs fly) and Yorkshire gets this Mass transit system as I would have a leg to Huddersfield which would serve Deighton.

I just don't see the point of keeping and rebuilding it which will happen as part of TRU unless it closes.

Also if the goverment opts for this 'Potential Wider Network' in response to whatever the Transport Select Committee recommends (which I think they might) that includes a new line to Bradford from Huddersfield it would be advantageous not to have a station on this line so close to Huddersfield.

 

[Starmill]

Barrow Haven. Would immediately save a one off £1.3 million:

Network Rail says a brand-new £1.3m platform is being built at a North Lincolnshire station as part of a significant project to reinvigorate passengers’ experience and make train travel more attractive.

£1.3 million platform being built in North Lincolnshire | RailBusinessDaily

Network Rail says a brand-new £1.3m platform is being built at a North Lincolnshire station as part of a significant project to reinvigorate passengers’ Network Rail says a brand-new £1.3m platform is being built at a North Lincolnshire station as part of a significant project to reinvigorate...

news.railbusinessdaily.com

Except, of course, too late now.

 

[Neptune]

I would close Deighton!

Although I would only do it once (Pigs fly) and Yorkshire gets this Mass transit system as I would have a leg to Huddersfield which would serve Deighton.

I just don't see the point of keeping and rebuilding it which will happen as part of TRU unless it closes.

Also if the goverment opts for this 'Potential Wider Network' in response to whatever the Transport Select Committee recommends (which I think they might) that includes a new line to Bradford from Huddersfield it would be advantageous not to have a station on this line so close to Huddersfield.

Deighton has double the passenger numbers of Ravensthorpe but they are both getting a big rebuild segregated from the fast lines under TRU, a scheme which is actually happening.

West Yorkshire mass transit was just a sop for scrapping HS2 to Leeds. Like every other mass transit scheme for West Yorks it’ll be scrapped and quietly forgotten.

 

[Starmill]

There is no point closing this sort of station unless closing the line or if it causes line capacity issues which it doesn't. It costs very little to have it.

According to the Better Value Rail toolkit (https://www.bettervaluerail.uk), benchmark operating cost per year for a small single platform unstaffed station is £68k, rising to £138k for a large two platform station, again without staff, and assuming no car parking provided.

Of course, those are benchmarks not estimates so they don't take any particular location into account. A station in the middle of nowhere such as Wennington will cost more than Fenny Stratford because the line cleaner who goes around in a van emptying bins and reporting anything defective to maintenence will need more time. Also some companies have ticket office staff or line cleaners go around putting more ticket stock into the ticket machine, others contract this out separately via the machine maintenance contract. So some small, rural stations might need multiple weekly visits from far afield. There is also the question of how many smaller stations one manager can keep up with, which varies quite a lot across the country.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Deighton has double the passenger numbers of Ravensthorpe but they are both getting a big rebuild segregated from the fast lines under TRU, a scheme which is actually happening.

West Yorkshire mass transit was just a sop for scrapping HS2 to Leeds. Like every other mass transit scheme for West Yorks it’ll be scrapped and quietly forgotten.

Thats my point, because it's being segregated from the fast lines towards Leeds, if the goverment decides to build a fast line to Bradford it will be on that as any such new line to Bradford will have to use the slow lines out of Huddersfield!

As for Ravensthorpe it's certainly not just outside Huddersfield nor on a route I would use for mass transit.

 

[Neptune]

Thats my point, because it's being segregated from the fast lines towards Leeds, if the goverment decides to build a fast line to Bradford it will be on that as any such new line to Bradford will have to use the slow lines out of Huddersfield!

Unless they run on the fast lines with a grade separated junction as per Thornhill which would be preferable surely over running on the slow lines which would still be required for a minimum 3tph in either direction.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Unless they run on the fast lines with a grade separated junction as per Thornhill which would be preferable surely over running on the slow lines which would still be required for a minimum 3tph in either direction.

Whilst it would be beneficial I don't think grade seperation is necessary, removing stopping services in between would certainly be advantageous.

Anyway aside from personal opinion I think whatever happens will happen without any modification to the track plan for TRU between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe. It's too far advanced and would delay it, simply leaving out a station however wouldn't.

 

[Kite159]

Barrow Haven. Would immediately save a one off £1.3 million:

£1.3 million platform being built in North Lincolnshire | RailBusinessDaily

Network Rail says a brand-new £1.3m platform is being built at a North Lincolnshire station as part of a significant project to reinvigorate passengers’ Network Rail says a brand-new £1.3m platform is being built at a North Lincolnshire station as part of a significant project to reinvigorate...

news.railbusinessdaily.com

Except, of course, too late now.

What a waste of money, until the timetable improves on 1tp2h any residents will simply use the bus

 

[lachlan]

What a waste of money, until the timetable improves on 1tp2h any residents will simply use the bus

I do think closing the station for three months is a strange way to "reinvigorate passengers". If the platform really needs replacing could it not have been done half at a time to allow the station to stay open?

EDIT: I note that EMR are offering taxis for anyone unable to access the nearby stations. Though a bit inconvenient this is a good move for accessibility!

 

[Halifaxlad]

Another station I would close is Patricroft in West Manchester.

Its only 1.5 km West of Eccles but has around 50% less usage of around 26,000.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another station I would close is Patricroft in West Manchester.

Its only 1.5 km West of Eccles but has around 50% less usage of around 26,000.

If you're using that sort of usage as a trigger for closures, your network is going to look very Serpell-like.

 

[gg1]

Another station I would close is Patricroft in West Manchester.

Its only 1.5 km West of Eccles but has around 50% less usage of around 26,000.

If you're using that sort of usage as a trigger for closures, your network is going to look very Serpell-like.

Especially when you consider that's the highly unrepresentative 20/21 figure, in 18/19 and 19/20 annual usage was over 100k.

 

[The Planner]

Another station I would close is Patricroft in West Manchester.

Its only 1.5 km West of Eccles but has around 50% less usage of around 26,000.

That is 400 stations closing based on that metric

 

[Western Sunset]

Paddington. Redundant when HS2 opens at Old Oak...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I would close Deighton!

Although I would only do it once (Pigs fly) and Yorkshire gets this Mass transit system as I would have a leg to Huddersfield which would serve Deighton.

I just don't see the point of keeping and rebuilding it which will happen as part of TRU unless it closes.

Also if the goverment opts for this 'Potential Wider Network' in response to whatever the Transport Select Committee recommends (which I think they might) that includes a new line to Bradford from Huddersfield it would be advantageous not to have a station on this line so close to Huddersfield.

I do think the decision to rebuild it on much the same site (rather than the earlier plan to relocate it closer to Bradley Junction) is a missed opportunity. With the four-tracking having a station there won't be the capacity eater that it is now, but access would be far better at Bradley. Indeed if a replacement station at Bradley was built early, it could do the job that the temporary Hillhouse platform will do- and in a slightly less seedy area of town!

 

[Halifaxlad]

If you're using that sort of usage as a trigger for closures, your network is going to look very Serpell-like.

Certainly not using that sort of figure for anything.

Especially when you consider that's the highly unrepresentative 20/21 figure, in 18/19 and 19/20 annual usage was over 100k.

100k still isn't that much considering where it is!

That is 400 stations closing based on that metric

I should probably explain the main reason why I would close it, is that it sits upon a key route between Manchester and Liverpool, personally I wouldn't even have Eccles there if it wasn't extremely well connected to the town entre! I also have an idea which this routes ties into which is what got me thinking about both these stations in the first place, but more on that idea later.

 

[Techniquest]

Hold on, that needs explaining better. OK yes, that's a key route between Liverpool and Manchester, but you'd ideally close Eccles and Patricroft because, why? Are you seriously suggesting that that part of Manchester does not deserve fast connections both to the west and to the city of Manchester? What would you rather the people living there do instead?

I have no connections to the places whatsoever, but I cannot see a good reason for closing either station. If we're closing stations to speed up services on various lines, regardless of their having a pretty decent usage, then I weep for humanity.

[Sarcasm]Colwall and Malvern Link slow down my journey to/from Worcester and beyond, they should close to speed up Hereford-Birmingham/London journeys[/Sarcasm]

Give me a very good reason for closing Patricroft, or indeed Eccles, and I'll comment further. As far as I can tell, there is zero need to close either station.

As for my pick for this topic, absolutely Teeside Airport. I'd get rid of it full stop and if there's ever a need for a station there in the future, a new one would be more sensible. I'd absolutely consider banishing Ardwick to the depths of history as well, unless someone can convince me of a good reason for keeping it. The Denton line stations can join them too, and Sankey for Penketh I would strongly consider too.

I'm sure plenty of others will come to mind soon enough, I'm just too disgraced with the idea of someone wanting to close well-used stations in Greater Manchester

 

[Halifaxlad]

Just to clarify I'm certainly not proposing closing Eccles!

I would also extend Metro link to Patricroft!

 

[gg1]

100k still isn't that much considering where it is!

Doesn't matter where it is, even considering closing a station with that sort of usage is simply ridiculous.