Which little-used stations might be candidates for closure in the new age of cost-cutting?

[Kingham West]

If it costs nothing to operate , and there a few passengers , it must be a contribution to revenue, so closure would actually cost money in the long term .

 

[Bletchleyite]

But doesn't the train have to stop here anyway for the guard to operate the ground frame and token? Give that you'd have to provide a platform for the guard anyway, I'd have thought its very marginal cost to keep it as a public station.

Most trains reverse short of it, I think as it saves a couple of minutes. It serves very little.

 

[Coolzac]

I think that there should be a way to temporarily close a station - for example,I agree that Newhaven Harbour is utterly pointless and should be temporarily closed. It might be useful in the future, but for now I see no point in keeping it open.

However, for a lot of the stations mentioned here, I think just keeping/having them as request stops makes sense? I know you have to build a couple of minutes into the timetable for them but other than that I see no problem in keeping them open.

 

[zwk500]

I think that there should be a way to temporarily close a station - for example,I agree that Newhaven Harbour is utterly pointless and should be temporarily closed. It might be useful in the future, but for now I see no point in keeping it open.

As has been pointed out, Newhaven Harbour penalises almost nobody and does serve a few houses and businesses. Closing it would gain very little, given how little maintenance is required and the service pattern. Last time I looked at the timetable in detail, the stop at Harbour was actually helpful in giving some margin for the single line to clear.

However, for a lot of the stations mentioned here, I think just keeping/having them as request stops makes sense? I know you have to build a couple of minutes into the timetable for them but other than that I see no problem in keeping them open.

Request stops are a bit of a pain though because the train can end up presenting early to a junction and as the train has to slow down in case they're flagged you're not really saving too much time. You still have to provide the platform furniture etc so Request stops don't save much money. Arguably today's request stops should be either served properly or closed outright.

 

[geoffk]

I suppose a very basic measure would be to sort the ORR usage figures and start with the smallest numbers. Naturally there would be cases to be made why any given proposal ought to be exempt!

The ORR station usage figures for 2019/20, the last year with no (or very little) Covid impact, shows that there were 167 stations with fewer than 100 passenger entries and exits per week (112 with fewer than 50), out of the 2,570 stations listed. Some have little population in the immediate area, some have ceased to be relevant because of the closure of local industry and others might have potential given a better train service. A few in the first two groups have been mentioned; the third group might include Pegswood, Widdrington and Pontarddulais.

 

[SargeNpton]

What about the Manchester United station? Is it officially open still?

As a station that has no scheduled trains in the permanent timetable, is it outside of the normal closure procedures?

 

[High Dyke]

Request stops are a bit of a pain though because the train can end up presenting early to a junction and as the train has to slow down in case they're flagged you're not really saving too much time. You still have to provide the platform furniture etc so Request stops don't save much money. Arguably today's request stops should be either served properly or closed ououtright.

I agree about providing a proper service, if that requirement is justified. Under BR I believe a number of rural stations were request stops; a number on the Skegness certainly were. These days they have a booked stop, even if it's only one or two trains per day. However, there are days / times when a request stop may be helpful.

One issue is that a train would have to slow down, on the off-chance there is someone waiting to board. That means extra running time for the operator.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Does Spondon have much purpose, following the closure of the adjacent Courtaulds plant?

Nobody (with any knowledge) seems to have responded to this, unfortunately.

I'd be interested to know, but judging by the complaints of the miserable train service since EMR made cuts, there are certainly some people who use it. Whether they will remain faithful passengers following all the troubles is another matter.

In a sensible world it would be possible to mothball a station without serving it once a week. It would make sense to mothball Denton and Reddish South but not smash up the platforms, for instance, as they could be useful again in future. It seems this has happened with IBM as one example - "put on hold" until it's useful again.

Closure doesn't have to mean ripping it up never to return, and there are cases where that does make sense. Ardwick is definitely one - it's knackered and a bit useless now, but I would be astonished if it wasn't the centre of some tower-block-style urban sprawl within probably 10, certainly 20 years.

Do I feel the Ghost of Carnforth Mainline Platforms is still wandering in anguish?

 

[X-City-WM]

Bordesley station in Birmingham.

 

[SargeNpton]

Bordesley station in Birmingham.

Not much passenger footfall generally, but the station for St Andrews whenever Birmingham City are playing at home.

 

[Howardh]

Ardwick and/or Clifton in Manchester. Although if a rail station is permanently closed, it should be counter-balanced by opening another somewhere!!

 

[The Planner]

Not much passenger footfall generally, but the station for St Andrews whenever Birmingham City are playing at home.

Expect it to go if the Bordesley chords go ahead.

 

[Clip]

Always thought that Moss Side and Salwick dont seem to serve much purpose - though im aware that the guard sets the crossing barriers Moss Side which is fancy and i did hear that salwick will close for the new Cottam station possibly?

 

[TheSeeker]

until it's useful again.

Why is potentially useful infrastructure removed? Travelling through France I see many grain farms which still have their own branch lines. Maybe not used for rail transport but that seems like good stuff to keep in place.

 

[paul1609]

Harbour will stay because there's no advantage to getting rid of it. Saving 1 or 2 minutes from the Seaford train is probably benefitting as many people as you inconvenience by closing harbour (which is convenient for the old dockers' terraces). The cost of closure is probably several times higher than the annual maintenance budget.


Being sensible, stations that are served by only 1 train a week (in theory and practice) would be the first ones I'd look at, then (as you suggest) those where it's not been deemed worth it to repair a footbridge or similar. Either serve them properly or go through the proper purpose and end this purgatory.

In theory Newhaven Harbour is used by 50,000 passengers a year. Of the Settle and Carlisle stations only Appleby has slightly more at 60k. Wouldn't it be better value in cost saving to close the whole Settle to Carlisle retaining a short section at the south end for the quarry. There would be enormous infrastructure savings and it would make an excellent cycle path.

 

[zwk500]

In theory Newhaven Harbour is used by 50,000 passengers a year. Of the Settle and Carlisle stations only Appleby has slightly more at 60k. Wouldn't it be better value in cost saving to close the whole Settle to Carlisle retaining a short section at the south end for the quarry. There would be enormous infrastructure savings and it would make an excellent cycle path.

Arguably, yes closing it for passengers and keeping only the ends for New Biggin and Ribblehead quarries would be better. Politically however I can think of one or two members on this board who would object!

 

[The Planner]

Why is potentially useful infrastructure removed? Travelling through France I see many grain farms which still have their own branch lines. Maybe not used for rail transport but that seems like good stuff to keep in place.

It has a cost, and maintainers have budgets which are normally under pressure. If something is there and isn't used then attempts will be made to get it off the books. It has a habit of biting on the bum later but we don't tend to do "just in case"

 

[Neptune]

In theory Newhaven Harbour is used by 50,000 passengers a year. Of the Settle and Carlisle stations only Appleby has slightly more at 60k. Wouldn't it be better value in cost saving to close the whole Settle to Carlisle retaining a short section at the south end for the quarry. There would be enormous infrastructure savings and it would make an excellent cycle path.

I know you’re playing devils advocate but you’d actually look at the total passenger usage, rather than individual stations.

Yes it’s a lightly used line compared to others (although if you listen to some posters on here you’d think every train was full 365 days a year which is utter nonsense, I can count on both hands the amount of full trains I worked over there in 20 years) it still has a connectivity function for remote communities.

 

[bramling]

I know you’re playing devils advocate but you’d actually look at the total passenger usage, rather than individual stations.

Yes it’s a lightly used line compared to others (although if you listen to some posters on here you’d think every train was full 365 days a year which is utter nonsense, I can count on both hands the amount of full trains I worked over there in 20 years) it still has a connectivity function for remote communities.

Whenever I’ve used it the train has hardly been busy, even if leaving Leeds full the train has emptied out by Skipton. I wouldn’t want to see it closed, and yes there’s a lot of value to the towns and villages on route. It has also been of some value at times for freight, and may be again in the future.

If wanting to make a quick saving of track miles versus value, Conwy Valley and Stranraer have to be up there, much as I’d hate to see it. The amount of money spent on Conwy Valley over the years has been considerable. One has to mention the Far North too, especially as its service has tended to decline over the last couple of decades. Interesting there’s a theme here that most of the worst cases are in Scotland or Wales. There is of course Whitby, albeit not a massive track mileage, and a pretty worthwhile destination at the end.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Finstock and Combe are very unlikely to survive if Wolvercot-Charlbury is redoubled in full.

 

[Neptune]

Whenever I’ve used it the train has hardly been busy, even if leaving Leeds full the train has emptied out by Skipton. I wouldn’t want to see it closed, and yes there’s a lot of value to the towns and villages on route. It has also been of some value at times for freight, and may be again in the future.

Yes it’s function as a freight route has declined alarmingly over the last few years.

If wanting to make a quick saving of track miles versus value, Conwy Valley and Stranraer have to be up there, much as I’d hate to see it. The amount of money spent on Conwy Valley over the years has been considerable. One has to mention the Far North too, especially as its service has tended to decline over the last couple of decades. Interesting there’s a theme here that most of the worst cases are in Scotland or Wales. There is of course Whitby, albeit not a massive track mileage, and a pretty worthwhile destination at the end.

Whitby’s issue is that it is slow and inaccessible by rail from most of the country. I certainly wouldn’t go there by rail from West Yorkshire, it is about 2 hours by car from my house and well over 4 hours by train for me (as an aside I don’t really like Whitby at all and rarely go there, I much prefer Filey whose Ingham’s fish and chips wipe the floor with the over-hyped Magpie).

 

[Mikey C]

Whenever I’ve used it the train has hardly been busy, even if leaving Leeds full the train has emptied out by Skipton. I wouldn’t want to see it closed, and yes there’s a lot of value to the towns and villages on route. It has also been of some value at times for freight, and may be again in the future.

If wanting to make a quick saving of track miles versus value, Conwy Valley and Stranraer have to be up there, much as I’d hate to see it. The amount of money spent on Conwy Valley over the years has been considerable. One has to mention the Far North too, especially as its service has tended to decline over the last couple of decades. Interesting there’s a theme here that most of the worst cases are in Scotland or Wales. There is of course Whitby, albeit not a massive track mileage, and a pretty worthwhile destination at the end.

Hardly that surprising that the stations/routes being talked about are in the more remote parts of Britain. They are all services without the large population base needed to run a railway economically

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hardly that surprising that the stations/routes being talked about are in the more remote parts of Britain. They are all services without the large population base needed to run a railway economically

What, like Ardwick, Bordesley, Denton and Reddish South?

 

[PG]

Coventry Arena, since due to rolling stock resourcing issues, it is closed when it could be most used - on match days

 

[YorksLad12]

To be honest I was surprised Ravensthorpe is set to survive the upgrade. There's not much immediately surrounding the station besides light industry. The upgrade does however separate the fast and slow services as well as allowing the currently non-existent Wakefield service to call, so perhaps this fancy rebuilt station could encourage development in the area.

The relocated Ravensthorpe will serve planned developments (housing) south of the railway, I think.

 

[The exile]

, Mauldeth Road, Burnage and East Didsbury are a faff - the former two served reasonably by bus, the latter has a tram stop and frequent (if slow) buses,

Surely only in this country could the argument that a station also has a tram stop and buses be an argument for closing it rather than encouraging its use as a transport interchange? (I know that rail and tram are not exactly adjacent, but that's not insoluble) Ideally, urban stations without a tram stop and / or frequent buses should be the exception, rather than the rule!

 

[Dr Day]

In the grand scheme of things, are unstaffed station closures really likely to be high up on the cost-cutting list, compared to other cost drivers around staffing costs inc pensions generally, other train operating costs and track/signalling/structures infrastructure renewals/maintenance?

Depending on the route, potentially the revenue benefit (for through passengers if public timetable journey time sped up), operational savings (if marginal diagrams) or performance benefits (if stop time converted to performance allowance) of the faster journey by not stopping at a station could off-set the revenue from the station itself, so could see fewer station calls rather than closures per se.

 

[richard1976]

Lelant Saltings
Now the park & ride has closed and it only has one train a day in each direction now

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The relocated Ravensthorpe will serve planned developments (housing) south of the railway, I think.

I'm not sure I'd consider it a "relocation" really. It's only moving to the other side of the nearby overbridge, some stations have staggered platforms as far apart as that.

 

[richard1976]

Whitley Bridge
Hensall
Snaith
Rawcliffe