Which trains are allowed where?

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Gathursty

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I've always thought it would be good to see a map for each class of train showing where they are allowed to operate.

By map, I mean those maps that frequent the 'Route Coverage' thread on this site. Obviously electric trains are constrained by overhead and third rail areas.

It's just something I've had on my mind the past few days.
 
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PHILIPE

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Only ATW 158 Fleet can work on the Cambrian due to ERTMS fitted for the signalling on the route.
Normal route avail-abilities can't enter into it.
 

najaB

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I've always thought it would be good to see a map for each class of train showing where they are allowed to operate.

By map, I mean those maps that frequent the 'Route Coverage' thread on this site. Obviously electric trains are constrained by overhead and third rail areas.

It's just something I've had on my mind the past few days.
If you look at the Sectional Appendices there is a table in each one listing what traction is cleared on what route.
 

Class172

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If you look at the Sectional Appendices there is a table in each one listing what traction is cleared on what route.

Certainly, all the information can be found in the section appendices, however as I'm sure you'll agree they are hugely cumbersome documents if you want to find gauge clearances for an overall class (the pdf breaks when I open it on anything other than my computer!). Then again, that is understandable given they're not intended as light reading. :p

I do agree with Gathursty's idea though, that an equivalent of the route coverage map for each class would be rather useful in terms of quick reference and comparison, not least also to settle arguments that frequently appear on the forum... "Class 166s are too wide to go here..." etc.
 

TheEdge

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Doesn't matter about anything else except Pacers are not capable of negotiating the Reedham curve so can't come to Anglia! :D
 

najaB

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I do agree with Gathursty's idea though, that an equivalent of the route coverage map for each class would be rather useful in terms of quick reference and comparison, not least also to settle arguments that frequently appear on the forum... "Class 166s are too wide to go here..." etc.
I agree, I just gave Gathursty the source information and I'm looking forward to seeing the completed maps in a few weeks. :D
 

Class172

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What can't come down the Chiltern Mainline? I know electrics can't obviously before anyone says.

You'd have to be far more specific with location, given it will change along the length of the route, but as an example, looking at Marylebone to Neasden South Jct, the following are permitted:
  • Class 121 (ECS only)
  • Class 150
  • Class 153
  • Class 155
  • Class 156
  • Class 165
  • Class 168
  • Class 172
  • Pretty much all diesel locomotives (those listed in the appendix)
 

The Planner

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142, 144, 158, 159, 170, 171. Just because they aren't cleared in the sectional appendix doesn't necessarily mean they would cause problems, 168s are effectively 170s.
 

Gathursty

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I agree, I just gave Gathursty the source information and I'm looking forward to seeing the completed maps in a few weeks. :D

I'll get my A-Level students to do it for homework over Easter. ;)
 

The Planner

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I do like that approach, saves thousands in getting a consultant or graduate to do it.... let me know if you do and it works, it would be useful!
 

Class172

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142, 144, 158, 159, 170, 171. Just because they aren't cleared in the sectional appendix doesn't necessarily mean they would cause problems, 168s are effectively 170s.
True, I was only listing what I could see in the appendix, but obviously similar trains would fit in reality.
I'll get my A-Level students to do it for homework over Easter. ;)
I think you may have found the perfect way to outsource!
 

jamesst

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Very little is allowed over much of the Merseyrail network due to the underground. Class 507s/508s, MPVs and class 66 for engineering purposes are near enough it
 

dmarshbcfc

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Some of the route from Marylebone to Aylesbury is restricted to trains equipped with tripcocks due to some of it using London Underground's tracks I believe.
 
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sprinterguy

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Indeed, but they aren't 37's, which was the question.
That's a bit of a technicality, isn't it? I thought the only difference from your common or garden 37 was the ERTMS equipment? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Also, West Coast Railways tested the ERTMS fitment on one of their class 37s, 37668, over the Cambrian line last September. 37669 is also proposed to be so fitted.

A few 66s also made it down the Cambrian line at least as far as Newton on engineering trains under possession in January, although of course that's not normal working practice.
 
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Llanigraham

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That's a bit of a technicality, isn't it? I thought the only difference from your common or garden 37 was the ERTMS equipment? If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
Technically the 97/3 class are not 37's, therefore I am correct. :lol:

Also, West Coast Railways tested the ERTMS fitment on one of their class 37s, 37668, over the Cambrian line last September. 37669 is also proposed to be so fitted.
True, but that "experiment" has not been repeated...............I wonder why?:roll:

A few 66s also made it down the Cambrian line at least as far as Newton on engineering trains under possession in January, although of course that's not normal working practice.
Yes, but only under a Possession, so that doesn't count.

In the past we have even had HST's down to Aber, so I'm sure lots would fit, but until everything is ERTMS fitted the list is only the 2 classes.
 

Philip Phlopp

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In the past we have even had HST's down to Aber, so I'm sure lots would fit, but until everything is ERTMS fitted the list is only the 2 classes.

313121 could make it down, if only there was a method to make it move...
 

61653 HTAFC

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Very little is allowed over much of the Merseyrail network due to the underground. Class 507s/508s, MPVs and class 66 for engineering purposes are near enough it

313s ran there in the early 1980s, so unless there's been changes that cause the pan to be a problem they still could. Southern's units will be as they no longer have a pan, I believe.

153s can't go to Portsmouth, but 155s could.
 
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craigybagel

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Only ATW 158 Fleet can work on the Cambrian due to ERTMS fitted for the signalling on the route.
Normal route avail-abilities can't enter into it.

Presumably, so long as a 158 was attached at the front (and at the back if you wanted to come back again!) you could send a 150 or 153 down there, so long as you had a 2nd driver on board who signed them! But that's getting very pedantic.

Also within ATW, 158s are barred from the Heart of Wales line in passenger service, and I'm sure I read somewhere 153s aren't permitted north of Radyr on the Valley lines.
 

PHILIPE

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Presumably, so long as a 158 was attached at the front (and at the back if you wanted to come back again!) you could send a 150 or 153 down there, so long as you had a 2nd driver on board who signed them! But that's getting very pedantic.

Also within ATW, 158s are barred from the Heart of Wales line in passenger service, and I'm sure I read somewhere 153s aren't permitted north of Radyr on the Valley lines.

I believe 158s have to have their air bags deflated to operate on the HOW Line.
When Signalling work overran by 4 days at Port Talbot in 2007, units were stranded in West Wales which required movement for fuelling and exams. There were instances of 158s working over the HOW Line having to be attached to 150/153s but locked out of use, of course. The most interesting part here was occasions of 175s working over the HOW to change them over. They would have had to use the Up platform at Llandovery due to a restriction on the Class at Llandovery Down Platform.
Correct re 153s (and 158s ) restricted North of Radyr. They are OK on the Rhymney Line where 158s had booked work round about 2001 to 2006.
 

neilb62

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158's not permitted Gannow Jn - Colne.

14X Not permitted WCML South of Crewe (Thankfully!)
 

PHILIPE

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Perhaps we should see if a map can be produced, otherwise we could go on and on just quoting an odd instance here and another one there all over the Network.
 

craigybagel

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I think 153s do still end up in Rhymney occasionally today - not sure if booked or not. They definetly have a trip to Barry Island every morning though.

Theres a video on YouTube somewhere showing in service 175s and ECS 158s on the HOWL. A 158 has ended up on the Diagram that involves Crewe -Shrewsbury locals and a Howl trip recently, I made sure I called control in good time to make sure they were planning a set swap when I was working it!
 
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