Why are some stations in 2 Zones?

[Whiggism]

Hi all I wanted to know why are there some stations such as Vauxhall and Earl’s Court in zones 1/2.

 

[Starmill]

To put it simply it's so you get the cheaper of the two possible fares.

 

[MikeWh]

Hi all I wanted to know why are there some stations such as Vauxhall and Earl’s Court in zones 1/2.

To put it simply it's so you get the cheaper of the two possible fares.

Expanding on that slightly, they are stations which are on the border between zones. If you travel to/from the station from the higher numbered zone then you only pay for that zone, likewise if you travel from the lower numbered zone.

So, Vauxhall to Brixton is a zone 2 journey, Vauxhall to Victoria is a zone 1 journey. If Vauxhall was in one zone then one of them would need to be a zone 1-2 journey.

 

[Mawkie]

To put it simply it's so you get the cheaper of the two possible fares.

Expanding on that slightly, they are stations which are on the border between zones. If you travel to/from the station from the higher numbered zone then you only pay for that zone, likewise if you travel from the lower numbered zone.

So, Vauxhall to Brixton is a zone 2 journey, Vauxhall to Victoria is a zone 1 journey. If Vauxhall was in one zone then one of them would need to be a zone 1-2 journey.

Whilst both informative responses, neither really answers the question of why.

Why is Earl's Court chosen, but not Camden Town? Why is Notting Hill Gate chosen, but not High Street Ken or Bayswater?

Of course, it's not just a zone 1/2 thing. Why Archway, but not Upper Holloway? Hendon Central but not East Finchley?

What is the actual methodology behind deciding which stations are included in zone sharing?

 

[A S Leib]

Whilst both informative responses, neither really answers the question of why.

Why is Earl's Court chosen, but not Camden Town? Why is Notting Hill Gate chosen, but not High Street Ken or Bayswater?

Of course, it's not just a zone 1/2 thing. Why Archway, but not Upper Holloway? Hendon Central but not East Finchley?

What is the actual methodology behind deciding which stations are included in zone sharing?

In some cases it's presumably because of interchanges, so for example that Rickmansworth to Watford's a zone 7 journey (£1.90 peak / £1.80 off-peak) instead of a zone 6-7 one (£2.10 / £1.90).

 

[321over360]

Same could be said why is Shoreditch High Street in Zone 1 when the old Shoreditch Tube station was Zone 2, likely to make people who travel NB from Whitechapel pay a higher fare for LO services as it passes through a Zone 1 station, as if you are coming from say the Eastern Central Line to say Hoxton, the Cheaper Fare is via the NLL to Canonbury by using the purple validator at Stratford and then the ELL to Hoxton as you only pay the Zone 2 > X fare, if you go thro Whitechapel or without validating it will charge you a via Zone 1 fare as thats the faster and route the system will believe you took.

 

[SynthD]

Shoreditch was put in zone 1 because the DfT required it.

 

[MikeWh]

Same could be said why is Shoreditch High Street in Zone 1 when the old Shoreditch Tube station was Zone 2, likely to make people who travel NB from Whitechapel pay a higher fare for LO services as it passes through a Zone 1 station, as if you are coming from say the Eastern Central Line to say Hoxton, the Cheaper Fare is via the NLL to Canonbury by using the purple validator at Stratford and then the ELL to Hoxton as you only pay the Zone 2 > X fare, if you go thro Whitechapel or without validating it will charge you a via Zone 1 fare as thats the faster and route the system will believe you took.

Shoreditch High Street is about half the distance between the old Shoreditch and Liverpool Street. If it had been in zone 2 then far more people from both the south and east would have used it to avoid paying for zone 1.

 

[Snow1964]

Whilst both informative responses, neither really answers the question of why.

Why is Earl's Court chosen, but not Camden Town? Why is Notting Hill Gate chosen, but not High Street Ken or Bayswater?

Of course, it's not just a zone 1/2 thing. Why Archway, but not Upper Holloway? Hendon Central but not East Finchley?

What is the actual methodology behind deciding which stations are included in zone sharing?

There is a certain amount of political fiddling that went into it when zones were created, and later when some stations got rezoned.

The easiest way is to see the zones on a real map (not a diagrammatic map) and look how the boundaries zigzag rather than being neat concentric ovals of same width.

However you will soon spot such maps are hard to find, because they want to keep the corrupt boundaries hidden

 

[Mojo]

It is however worth pointing out that despite Shoreditch High St being in zone 1, customers doing shorter distances to there, travelling from Dalston Jct, Haggerston, Whitechapel, Shadwell or Wapping, all of which are zone 2 stations, will only pay the zone 1 single fare.

There are a few other examples of this, such as West Brompton to Gloucester Rd, which despite being a 2 zone journey is only charged as if it were wholly in zone 1, although with the added benefit that the evening peak still doesn’t apply if travelling into zone 1.

 

[Tetchytyke]

However you will soon spot such maps are hard to find, because they want to keep the corrupt boundaries hidden

The only massive discrepancy is Stratford, which was moved to zone 2/3 from zone 3 for obvious political reasons. And that change has saved lots of people money. Not sure we need the conspiracy theory!

 

[MasterSpenny]

The only massive discrepancy is Stratford, which was moved to zone 2/3 from zone 3 for obvious political reasons. And that change has saved lots of people money. Not sure we need the conspiracy theory!

Wasn’t West Ham station the same case?

 

[jon81uk]

The only massive discrepancy is Stratford, which was moved to zone 2/3 from zone 3 for obvious political reasons. And that change has saved lots of people money. Not sure we need the conspiracy theory!

Wasn’t West Ham station the same case?

Yes the whole section from North Greenwich to Stratford had to be done.

I did think it was weird when I lived on the Isle of Dogs and held a z1-2 season travelcard, I could get across town to Westfield White City at no extra cost, but the short journey to Stratford Westfield was charged for. Therefore it made a lot of sense I think to move Stratford to zone 2.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The only massive discrepancy is Stratford, which was moved to zone 2/3 from zone 3 for obvious political reasons. And that change has saved lots of people money. Not sure we need the conspiracy theory!

Also Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station being in Zone 1 rather than Zone 2 to appease the developers.

 

[Wolfie]

Same could be said why is Shoreditch High Street in Zone 1 when the old Shoreditch Tube station was Zone 2, likely to make people who travel NB from Whitechapel pay a higher fare for LO services as it passes through a Zone 1 station, as if you are coming from say the Eastern Central Line to say Hoxton, the Cheaper Fare is via the NLL to Canonbury by using the purple validator at Stratford and then the ELL to Hoxton as you only pay the Zone 2 > X fare, if you go thro Whitechapel or without validating it will charge you a via Zone 1 fare as thats the faster and route the system will believe you took.

Sure that l read on here that the Shoreditch thing was directly instigated by DfT.

There is a certain amount of political fiddling that went into it when zones were created, and later when some stations got rezoned.

The easiest way is to see the zones on a real map (not a diagrammatic map) and look how the boundaries zigzag rather than being neat concentric ovals of same width.

However you will soon spot such maps are hard to find, because they want to keep the corrupt boundaries hidden

See Johnson moving Stratford and a couple of neighbouring stations from Zone 3 to Zone 2/3.

It is however worth pointing out that despite Shoreditch High St being in zone 1, customers doing shorter distances to there, travelling from Dalston Jct, Haggerston, Whitechapel, Shadwell or Wapping, all of which are zone 2 stations, will only pay the zone 1 single fare.

There are a few other examples of this, such as West Brompton to Gloucester Rd, which despite being a 2 zone journey is only charged as if it were wholly in zone 1, although with the added benefit that the evening peak still doesn’t apply if travelling into zone 1.

Gloucester Road is a Zone 1 station. I assume what you are trying to say is that it's charged as Zone 1 rather than Zones 1 and 2.

 

[Mojo]

Gloucester Road is a Zone 1 station. I assume what you are trying to say is that it's charged as Zone 1 rather than Zones 1 and 2.

That’s exactly what I said! West Brompton to Gloucester Rd is a 2 zone journey however only charged as if it were zone 1, however it also benefits from only charging off peak fares when travelling into zone 1.

 

[Snow1964]

The only massive discrepancy is Stratford, which was moved to zone 2/3 from zone 3 for obvious political reasons. And that change has saved lots of people money. Not sure we need the conspiracy theory!

Thought Lewisham was also an oddity, a zone 2-3 station bulging into zone 3

Kingston and Surbiton (fairly rich areas) have also been placed in zone 6, even though they are nearer central London than Woodford and Fairlop in zone 4

Thats why I maintain it was political meddling rather than geography that determined the borders

London Transport Zone Map - Google My Maps

This is a station accurate representation of the Transport for London Zone layout. Zone information taken from https://web.archive.org/web/20230308032514/https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

www.google.com

 

[Wolfie]

That’s exactly what I said! West Brompton to Gloucester Rd is a 2 zone journey however only charged as if it were zone 1, however it also benefits from only charging off peak fares when travelling into zone 1.

Ah, sorry. I misread 2 zone as zone 2.

Thought Lewisham was also an oddity, a zone 2-3 station bulging into zone 3

Kingston and Surbiton (fairly rich areas) have also been placed in zone 6, even though they are nearer central London than Woodford and Fairlop in zone 4

Thats why I maintain it was political meddling rather than geography that determined the borders

London Transport Zone Map - Google My Maps

This is a station accurate representation of the Transport for London Zone layout. Zone information taken from https://web.archive.org/web/20230308032514/https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

www.google.com

I think that in certain places (particularly key interchanges) dual zoning may have been done for passenger benefit.

I suspect DfT and/or the TOCs have had a lot to do with certain places being in higher zones. Silverlink played games at Willesden Junction for example albeit that London Overground undid the worst of it.

 

[jon81uk]

Thought Lewisham was also an oddity, a zone 2-3 station bulging into zone 3

Lewisham as part of the DLR made sense to me, keeping the fare low encouraged those who work at Canary Wharf to consider living in Lewisham.

 

[deltic]

When the map was originally drawn up - on a former colleague's kitchen table - it had to take account of the bus network as well as the underground. The DLR did not exist then

 

[Busaholic]

When the map was originally drawn up - on a former colleague's kitchen table - it had to take account of the bus network as well as the underground. The DLR did not exist then

I do hope fag packets were involved to complete the experience.

 

[deltic]

I do hope fag packets were involved to complete the experience.

As the individual did not smoke - backs of envelopes were more likely to have been scribbled on

 

[Tetchytyke]

Kingston and Surbiton (fairly rich areas) have also been placed in zone 6, even though they are nearer central London than Woodford and Fairlop in zone 4

Woodford is within the distance for zone 4 and has always been zone 4.

The lightly-used Fairlop Loop and therefore Hainault was moved from zone 5 to zone 4 in 2007 to encourage patronage.

I’d imagine Surbiton and Kingston being zone 6 (after zone 5 was split in the early 90s) was all on BR.