Why do coaches have letters not numbers?

[Waverley125]

Genuine question.

 

[PeterC]

There may be operational reasons but from the customer point of view it facilitates seat reservation. The coach has a letter and the seat has a number

If your reservation is for A2 it is perfectly clear which seat it is - if it was for 1-2 it wouldn't be clear to the typical member of the Great British Public if that was seat 2 in coach 1 or seat 1 in coach 2.

 

[MCR247]

Also it's a traditional thing. With electric PIS systems it's easy to use numbers as there are no signs/stickers saying the coach number/letter so the carriage will be 1 of 4 on the way and 4 of 4 on the way back. In the past you would've end up with coach 1 actually being the last coach and coach 12 being the front coach half of the time

 

[Failed Unit]

There may be operational reasons but from the customer point of view it facilitates seat reservation. The coach has a letter and the seat has a number

If your reservation is for A2 it is perfectly clear which seat it is - if it was for 1-2 it wouldn't be clear to the typical member of the Great British Public if that was seat 2 in coach 1 or seat 1 in coach 2.

LOL - just thinking of all the confusion the exising "F, B and A" gives on the Face, Back and Airline seats respectively

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Southern use numbers, rather than letters. It would make things much simpler.

 

[Fincra5]

Southern do but thats only because the PIS changes the coach numbers each direction.. and its beneficial for stations with short platforms and splitting services.

But then its not really needed on services that don't do either.. but the PIS can't cope with that.

 

[MCR247]

Another problem would be with reversals on route - coach 1 is then at the back with coach x at the front. I assume the 377 PIS just changes the coach numbers - which is fine for them as they don't have any reservations and the number is only used for short platforms and splitting

 

[dosxuk]

Southern use numbers, rather than letters. It would make things much simpler.

How would it make things simpler? It would be exactly the same level of complexity, just indicated differently. It's not like the carriages currently have names or colours to differentiate them which nobody would be able to follow.

 

[Hophead]

Southern do but thats only because the PIS changes the coach numbers each direction.. and its beneficial for stations with short platforms and splitting services.

But then its not really needed on services that don't do either.. but the PIS can't cope with that.

Furthermore, they don't offer seat reservations and the seats aren't numbered (or lettered), so there's no potential confusion to consider.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit units are a pain in the rear. You often see TPE sets in the CBAFED formation because of the way the sets show up. Even had the EMUs couple making odd formations, but I guess Carstairs can get them turned.

 

[starrymarkb]

Eurostar use numbers and it doesn't cause confusion there

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A few trips I have had on the continent have been interesting in this regard. On my first trip, my friends and I were booked in coach 17 of what turned out to be a ten coach train. On my last trip I used the Paris-Madrid sleeper and was booked in coach 62, which, it appears, was the lowest numbered coach in the train!

I really don't think change for the sake of change is worth it and I don't know what benefit would really be had from changing it.

LOL - just thinking of all the confusion the exising "F, B and A" gives on the Face, Back and Airline seats respectively

I've seen those letters cause confusion before (people thinking they were the coach letter), but when they were of any use (usually these days they are either all 'A' or no letter is used) it made it so much easier to know if you had a table seat, and if so, if you were facing the direction of travel or not (even if the train turned up in reverse formation), now it's mostly guess work.

 

[59CosG95]

Eurostar use numbers and it doesn't cause confusion there

But then again, Eurostar don't split their sets in regular service

 

[DelayRepay]

It might also cause confusion around the difference between coach 1 and a coach with a 1 on the door to indicate First Class.

 

[CC 72100]

A few trips I have had on the continent have been interesting in this regard. On my first trip, my friends and I were booked in coach 17 of what turned out to be a ten coach train. On my last trip I used the Paris-Madrid sleeper and was booked in coach 62, which, it appears, was the lowest numbered coach in the train!

Indeed, on the continent the idea of using numbers is relatively well-established and understood by all. In France for example the coach numbers are displayed on the 'Composition de train' board, and on Intercités services by a pad which is placed in a slot on the window of the door, and can obviously be changed as and when required. (Or stolen!). There are no stickers as such as we are familiar with over here.

However, why a 7 coach train would be numbered with coaches 10-16 I really don't understand! Strange at the time and I still find it strange now!

 

[387star]

What do we make of FGW sticking coach numbers on the ends of 158s? Making a difference?

 

[Myb]

However, why a 7 coach train would be numbered with coaches 10-16 I really don't understand! Strange at the time and I still find it strange now!

A few trips I have had on the continent have been interesting in this regard. On my first trip, my friends and I were booked in coach 17 of what turned out to be a ten coach train.

I guess it depends on the countries, but I've noticed that in these cases that the first number refers to the unit number and the second to the car number.

For example if the train is formed of two units and three coaches per unit, the first unit would have its coaches numbered 10-12 and the second 20-22.

It works this way in Denmark if I remember correctly.

 

[yorkie]

Southern use numbers, rather than letters. It would make things much simpler.

I disagree. Southern don't label their coaches with numbers or letters as they don't offer seat reservations, so it's not necessary. Announcements/displays will say which coach you're in, in relation to the front of the train, which will change en-route in the case of reversals.

If Coach "A" was coach 1, Coach "B" was coach 2, Coach "C" became coach 3, and so on, you'd have the Voyagers via Doncaster potentially having coach 1 at the rear, and in front of it would be coach 3, and so on. Combined with people being confused between "Coach: 3 Seats: 4" on their reservations (remember the text "Coach" and "Seats" can be in a tiny font, and this may include elderly people with poor eyesight) it's a recipe for chaos!

Where coaches have to be labelled, it clearly needs to be letters.

Where no labelling is required and there are no reservations, it makes sense instead to describe how far from the front each coach is, ie. "Coach 1 of 8".

People have a reasonable expectation of "Coach 1 of 8" meaning the 'front coach' but do not necessarily expect "Coach A" to be at the front, as anyone who has travelled by train before knows that trains are likely to reverse at the end of their journey, and possibly also mid-journey.

 

[CC 72100]

For example if the train is formed of two units and three coaches per unit, the first unit would have its coaches numbered 10-12 and the second 20-22.

It works this way in Denmark if I remember correctly.

Ah ok, that's quite a clever way of doing it. In France when I've been on doubled up TGVs, the trains have had separate train numbers (ie. the front portion was train 8620, the rear portion train 8720.) I think the actual coach numbers then carried on. (Front set was coaches 1-8, running as train 8620, rear set coaches 9-16, running as train 8720)

However, on my coaches 10-16 for a 7 coach train example, there was no splitting or dividing - it was the same loco + 7 coaches throughout.

 

[starrymarkb]

ICEs in Germany are usually 2x for set one and 3x for set two (ICE1s don't do multiple working so are 1-12)

 

[snail]

usually these days they are either all 'A' or no letter is used

But TPE have gone retro and started using B & F for table seats on the 350s. And it because it's not used anywhere else on their routes (AFAIK) it confuses people.