Why The Obsession With Electric cars?

[radamfi]

I read recently that about 99% of the electric buses in the world are in China.

There are over 16,000 battery buses in Shenzhen alone.

 

[birchesgreen]

Having been to Shenzhen it certainly needs them *cough* :P

 

[BluePenguin]

Because they are AMAZINGLY CHEAP to run and super cool to own at the moment. A few of my friends have them as runarounds. You also help the environment by owning one and help to reduce emissions and contribute to cleaner air.

They cost a lot from the outset but the cost per mile to run is like nothing I have ever seen before. You don't pay any road tax nor congestion charges either. Infact the only charge you cannot avoid is the Dart charge if you ever use the Dartford crossing.

When I finally pass my driving test I will definitely look at buying at electric car.

 

[radamfi]

What about the maintenance costs? Are you stuck with a main dealer? Do independent garages have the ability to diagnose and fix problems?

 

[Bald Rick]

What about the maintenance costs? Are you stuck with a main dealer? Do independent garages have the ability to diagnose and fix problems?

From the people I know who have pure electric cars, maintenance is much reduced.

If you think about what maintenance an ‘engined’ car needs, it is oil change, air / oil / fuel filter changes and fluid changes (radiator, brake, clutch, gearbox oil), and the rest is usually just checks unless something breaks. And most pure electric cars are young enough to not have anything break yet (and still be under main dealer guarantee).

Besides, in my experience, the difference in price between main dealer and independent garage for servicing and repairs is pretty small these days.

 

[underbank]

Infact the only charge you cannot avoid is the Dart charge if you ever use the Dartford crossing.

Charges still payable on other toll bridges/roads too, not just the Dartford Crossing.

 

[JamesT]

I suspect if electric cars become a significant proportion of cars on the road then their tax advantages may reduce. They might not produce emissions out of an exhaust, but they’re still wearing down the roads and adding to congestion. Plus the government will want to replace that lost revenue.

 

[underbank]

I suspect if electric cars become a significant proportion of cars on the road then their tax advantages may reduce. They might not produce emissions out of an exhaust, but they’re still wearing down the roads and adding to congestion. Plus the government will want to replace that lost revenue.

If anyone thinks electric cars will be road tax exempt and congestion charge exempt once they become mainstream (if ever), they're deluded. At the moment it's a sop to improve their popularity. But once London is congested with them, they'll no longer be exempt!

 

[krus_aragon]

Electric power road vehicle is never a new idea and serviced as well over 100 years, just they are not take power from battery, but even battery power bus and lorry also isn't a new idea.

Back when I first read your post (on my phone) I though that was a picture of a bus with a "town gas" storage tank on top!

But it turns out that China was doing something similar (using a gas bag) until the 1990s:

 

[Groningen]

It is my opinion that it is not possible to reach Glasgow/Edinburgh from London without recharging with every electric car.

 

[birchesgreen]

I wonder if this forum had been around in the early 1900s there would be a thread "Why the obsession with petrol fueled horseless carriages?"

It is my opinion that it is not possible to reach Glasgow/Edinburgh from London without recharging with every electric car.

Yes cheers for that, relevant to most drivers

 

[LOL The Irony]

Yes cheers for that, relevant to most drivers

There are people who do that journey for work on a weekly basis, sometimes more.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm sure the half-dozen or so will avoid electric cats for the time being then

 

[Harpers Tate]

It is my opinion that it is not possible to reach Glasgow/Edinburgh from London without recharging with every electric car.

Correct. Google maps gives 406 miles and in excess of 7 hours' driving time (random point in central London to ditto in Glasgow). With any of the longer range EVs presently available you'd need to recharge once on this journey. I can't speak for you, but I suspect most drivers of any type of car will stop for a meal and refreshment break on such a trip at least once. Those driving an EV would recharge as they did so.

 

[MotCO]

I still don't know how you would recharge an electric car at home if you do not have a driveway. Do you drape a extension lead across the pavement and create a trip hazard? What if you cannot always guarantee to be able to park outside your house - do you roll out your extension lead down the road and into the next street?

 

[WelshBluebird]

There are people who do that journey for work on a weekly basis, sometimes more.

The vast vast majority of drivers do not.

I still don't know how you would recharge an electric car at home if you do not have a driveway. Do you drape a extension lead across the pavement and create a trip hazard? What if you cannot always guarantee to be able to park outside your house - do you roll out your extension lead down the road and into the next street?

Of course in many places the infrastructure is not there yet.

There are options though: from charging at your work if that is possible (my work got a couple of electric chargers installed 2 years ago now, which over the course of a work day should give you roughly what an overnight charge would give you), to charging infrastructure being rolled out to some on street parking spots, to fast chargers being installed at say supermarket car parks etc.

EV's give the option to totally rethink how we "fuel cars". Hell one mad idea that just popped into my head is the possibility of people setting up their own charging points and allowing the public to use them for a fee. Maybe these could even be set up in people's front gardens with sufficient works done to make plugging into them safe (think how dropped curbs were developed to accommodate driveways) so you could just park wherever on your street and plug in. Going further into the future, your driverless car could drop you off at home, go out on its own to find the nearerst charging point, charge up overnight then come to pick you up in the morning.

Obvious, none of this happens overnight, and the feasibility of an electric car will depend on your exact circumstances. But not having a drive / garage doesn't automatically rule out the option, and where it does right now, it may not in the future.

If anyone thinks electric cars will be road tax exempt and congestion charge exempt once they become mainstream (if ever), they're deluded. At the moment it's a sop to improve their popularity. But once London is congested with them, they'll no longer be exempt!

Well there is no such thing as road tax, so not sure how you'd have to pay something that doesn't exist! Current vehicle tax is emissions based, so that is the reason EV's are zero taxed. Now, I'd agree that eventually when they are mainstream then it is likely the government of the day will change how vehicles are taxed to include EV's. Of course, by that time driverless cars may actually be more of a reality than now (as mentioned above) so that is something else to think of when it comes to things like congestion charges etc.

 

[AndrewE]

I still don't know how you would recharge an electric car at home if you do not have a driveway. Do you drape a extension lead across the pavement and create a trip hazard? What if you cannot always guarantee to be able to park outside your house - do you roll out your extension lead down the road and into the next street?

If there is that degree of housing density (or parking congestion) then it's a fair bet that public transport would be viable for most journeys if only it was seen (and provided) as infrastructure that is as important as water mains. ...And if the lazy selfish British could bring themselves to recognise that they don't have a God-given right to door-to-door private transport regardless of its effect on the other people in the area (who are the ones who cause the congestion - of course it can't possibly be the whingers' own cars can it?)
To answer the topic title directly: the obsession with electric cars is a fig-leaf to hide the fact that most private motoring in cities is just selfish.

 

[PeterC]

I still don't know how you would recharge an electric car at home if you do not have a driveway. Do you drape a extension lead across the pavement and create a trip hazard? What if you cannot always guarantee to be able to park outside your house - do you roll out your extension lead down the road and into the next street?

I brought this up on a motoring forum, the EV fanboys simply denied that it was an issue.

Of course the hipster cycling brigade will tell you to cycle and deny the fact that people who live in this sort of area are more likely to need vehicles for work.

 

[EM2]

It is my opinion that it is not possible to reach Glasgow/Edinburgh from London without recharging with every electric car.

It's not possible without refuelling my petrol car either.

 

[birchesgreen]

I brought this up on a motoring forum, the EV fanboys simply denied that it was an issue.

Of course the hipster cycling brigade will tell you to cycle and deny the fact that people who live in this sort of area are more likely to need vehicles for work.

I question it being "more likely to need vehicles", people without driveways tend to live in more urban, densely built up areas

 

[MotCO]

I question it being "more likely to need vehicles", people without driveways tend to live in more urban, densely built up areas

But there are loads of people who need to have cars - shift workers, emergency workers, workers who need to carry heavy equipment...the list can go on. How will they be able to charge electric vehicles?

 

[Bald Rick]

I still don't know how you would recharge an electric car at home if you do not have a driveway. Do you drape a extension lead across the pavement and create a trip hazard? What if you cannot always guarantee to be able to park outside your house - do you roll out your extension lead down the road and into the next street?

I brought this up on a motoring forum, the EV fanboys simply denied that it was an issue.

Of course the hipster cycling brigade will tell you to cycle and deny the fact that people who live in this sort of area are more likely to need vehicles for work.

Charging lead across the pavement, with a suitable protective ramp (as you see whenever any temporary power cables are laid across a pavement).

I’ve seen it done several times for EVs. It’s not an issue.

The bigger issue is what you do if you live in a block of flats. The answer to that is to persuade the freeholder to get a charging point installed in your parking area, but that is a rather more difficult proposition.

 

[BananaRepublic]

80% of all daily use by private cars is for journeys of less than 30 miles.

90% of EV recharging is carried out at home, usually overnight, or a place of work.

Almost 100% of petrol and diesel refuelling has to be carried out away from home, usually during a journey.

The AA rescues an average of 2,100 cars a week that have run out of petrol or diesel.

Most of the major oil companies are planning to install electric charging points in filling stations.

Many of the major car manufacturers have significant numbers of pure EV and hybrid car models in development, with many about to be released over the next 24 months.
e.g. VW group (VW, Audi, SEAT, Skoda) are developing some 20 different models of EV's.
Mercedes-Benz are working on 10 new EV's, with the first, the EQC SUV, due to be available next year.


Food for thought?

 

[birchesgreen]

But there are loads of people who need to have cars - shift workers, emergency workers, workers who need to carry heavy equipment...the list can go on. How will they be able to charge electric vehicles?

Sure EVs are not for everyone YET but i'd say a good majority. Seems some people seem to deride EVs until every extreme case can be called for.

 

[underbank]

I question it being "more likely to need vehicles", people without driveways tend to live in more urban, densely built up areas

I live in a village and there are loads of streets without drives and where you can't usually park outside your own house. It's certainly not just densely populated areas. If people used extension leads it would be like spaghetti throughout the village.

 

[birchesgreen]

I said "tend" not "just".

 

[AM9]

Sure EVs are not for everyone YET but i'd say a good majority. Seems some people seem to deride EVs until every extreme case can be called for.

There seems to be a similarity between drivers of polluting cars and smokers. The same type of obtuse arguments were put forward as to why they couldn't (and wouldn't) give up their habit. So those digging in with their cars that not only create congestion but also impair the health of others, should get used to the idea that when the inducements (carrots) start to fade away, (as in help for smokers to kick the habit for their own good), the type of penalties that may be used to drive out the dinosaurs, (the sticks) will be introduced into laws e.g.

when the tax model changes to a road use tax, there will be an additional premium for polluters based on their vehicles' emissions
restrictions on where polluting cars can be driven
priority lanes/routes for EVs
Then the 'social pariah' pressures will start ....​

I expect that it will start in cities and busy towns, then spread through suburbia until the only effective use of hydrocarbon burning private vehicles will be in the countryside, and it those vehicles will not be permitted into towns. Get used to the idea.

 

[Clip]

How will they be able to charge electric vehicles

shift workers,

They can charge at home or at work if their company would provide an outlet - ive seen a few now

emergency workers

They can charge at home or at work if their company would provide an outlet - Ive seen a few now

workers who need to carry heavy equipment

They can charge at home or at service stations if they need another charge - remember they are only using it to get to and from their place of work not using it solidly for an 8/10 hour shift

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm sure the half-dozen or so will avoid electric cats for the time being then

To be honest, I'd avoid electric cats as well

I don't smoke but like quick loud cars. I pay £180 in VED for my quick fast car so I am not one of the above

 

[underbank]

They can charge at home or at service stations if they need another charge - remember they are only using it to get to and from their place of work not using it solidly for an 8/10 hour shift

There are plenty of people who are carrying equipment etc for jobs throughout the day, such as Sky installers, gas repairers, and a host of other tradesmen, who aren't at a particular job long enough to charge the vehicle (if the customer had the facility and agreed that is). Also, what about travelling salesmen who are likewise making several stops per day. These people will be restricted as to how much work they can do in a day if they have to keep stopping to charge.