GRALISTAIR
Established Member
What is it they are doing to the train line to Blackpool South?
Resignaling amongst other things
What is it they are doing to the train line to Blackpool South?
There has been much said over the years in website threads concerning the conversion of the Blackpool South line to an extension of the present tramway system. Both the first line Manchester Metrolink conversions of the Manchester to Bury line and the Manchester to Altrincham line now have had years in which to evaluate how well passenger growth has taken place under a modern light railway system would benefit the Blackpool South heavy rail line if installed on that line, noting the recent upgrade to the Blackpool Tramway.
Pleasure Beach is quoted at 95m, as opposed to 85m at Blackpool South, so shouldn't be an issue there.
The difference there Paul is that the Bury and Altrincham branches ran to the country's 2nd city and through generally built up areas. There is next to nothing between Lytham and Kirkham.
I have corrected that post for you...
shouldn't that read 3rd city as I’m sure Birmingham is bigger than Manchester
If the Blackpool South line isn't being electrified, why are all the overbridges on that line in Blackpool currently closed? Proved to me quite a problem last night trying to get to St Annes from Blackpool town centre.
Agreed - I just can not see a tramway all the way to Kirkham and Wesham though. -To Lytham St Annes yes - but not all the way. I know there will be no business case - but a 319 trimode - not too crazy if you restore the curves etc at Burscough - run on AC under the wires, DC into Liverpool and diesel onto Blackpool South or Southport - now my mind is racing and I am being a crayonist aren't I?
Tramway to Lytham is clearly viable. It's almost all an urban area with a healthy tourist economy to boot. Probably not to Kirkham though.
I read something a while back that the majority of people from Lytham and St Anne's commute to Blackpool over anywhere else.
Given that the fact the current Blackpool South terminus doesn't get anywhere near the town centre, employment, or tourist areas, a tram seems the obvious solution. It could also be done partially on a parallel line so that heavy rail to Preston is retained.
Partially parallel would not work because single track would be too much of a bottleneck for the trams. The line between Squires Gate and Blackpool South would close too. Cutting back the heavy real service to Lytham would allow it to become half hourly without needing better signalling, a passing loop or an extra unit. I think the business case is good but the link to Blackpool North is the current priority.
Is there already a tramway link to Blackpool North station in the current area proposals?
Partially parallel would not work because single track would be too much of a bottleneck for the trams. The line between Squires Gate and Blackpool South would close too. Cutting back the heavy real service to Lytham would allow it to become half hourly without needing better signalling, a passing loop or an extra unit. I think the business case is good but the link to Blackpool North is the current priority.
Tram to Kirkham doesn't sound a bad idea at all to be honest.
That would leave Ormskirk to Colne as the remaining West Lancashire Line service, a bit easier than the proposed 3-way shuffle (albeit involving a reverse).
There are people of working age in Lytham??!!I read something a while back that the majority of people from Lytham and St Anne's commute to Blackpool over anywhere else.
Mk 4s being cascaded is doubtful (it has had its its own threads, of which the current one is here), but the electrification is very real, has been going on for a while (years if you count from the first bridge raisings), and the climax started this weekend.
The existence of a Blackpool-Manchester electrification thread with over 5000 posts is a clue.
Yes I think that's the plan. Would require rather less electrification than Colne but still unlikely to have a good business case.
Partially parallel would not work because single track would be too much of a bottleneck for the trams. The line between Squires Gate and Blackpool South would close too. Cutting back the heavy real service to Lytham would allow it to become half hourly without needing better signalling, a passing loop or an extra unit. I think the business case is good but the link to Blackpool North is the current priority.
The connection would be most likely to be at Pleasure Beach where the two routes are close together and a link wouldn't require any demolition. This was looked at a few years ago as part of an idea for a tram-train to Preston. It would close Blackpool South to Pleasure Beach but the tramway is available a short distance away on the promenade. Not sure what's left at Rigby Road but I think most of it would need demolishing to create a conneting route through the site without lots of tight curves.Apologies if this is a bit crayontastic, but how would a tram extension from the Rigby Road depot spur towards South station sound? Stops at the football ground and station then (street running) tracing the perimeter of the pleasure beach as far as the airport before curving around to rejoin the existing line at Starr Gate?
If the will had been there then the single track could have been extended and the single-platform terminus located at Central instead of South. This could even be done today at the cost of some parking. A tram link from Central to the Promenade would also be possible.Blackpool Central's fate was sealed when a Blackburn Botha crashed on it during WWII. It was never properly rebuilt, doing so would have required cash that wasn't available. Maybe BR wanted to prioritise it over Blackpool North, but the reality was there was no way it was ever going to be properly reconstructed. Maybe the council did want to make a land grab, but even if they hadn't, Central - at some point - would have closed
The connection would be most likely to be at Pleasure Beach where the two routes are close together and a link wouldn't require any demolition. This was looked at a few years ago as part of an idea for a tram-train to Preston. It would close Blackpool South to Pleasure Beach but the tramway is available a short distance away on the promenade. Not sure what's left at Rigby Road but I think most of it would need demolishing to create a conneting route through the site without lots of tight curves.
As to Starr Gate, I think anything like this would result in Blackpool having two tram "routes", one from Starr Gate for the length of the Promenade (possibly high season and Illuminations only) and the other from wherever the terminus was on the Lytham line, in and out of North station and on to Fleetwood.
If the will had been there then the single track could have been extended and the single-platform terminus located at Central instead of South. This could even be done today at the cost of some parking. A tram link from Central to the Promenade would also be possible.
There has been much said over the years in website threads concerning the conversion of the Blackpool South line to an extension of the present tramway system. Both the first line Manchester Metrolink conversions of the Manchester to Bury line and the Manchester to Altrincham line now have had years in which to evaluate how well passenger growth has taken place under a modern light railway system would benefit the Blackpool South heavy rail line if installed on that line, noting the recent upgrade to the Blackpool Tramway.
If the will had been there then the single track could have been extended and the single-platform terminus located at Central instead of South. This could even be done today at the cost of some parking. A tram link from Central to the Promenade would also be possible.
Lol, there are (I'm one of them) but they are a minority! In fact the population is that old, the shop windows are bi-focal.There are people of working age in Lytham??!!