Will the rest of the UK copy London tube and close ticket offices down?

[Gadget88]

As the title says do you think in 20+ years all ticket offices will be gone and replaced by digital card machines?

 

[pablo]

Are you starting something of a record breaker for silly questions?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Yes. The government fares review has stated that paper tickets are going to be withdrawn in the next 10 - 15 years. There will just be someone wandering about the concourse most likely.

 

[Harlesden]

As the title says do you think in 20+ years all ticket offices will be gone and replaced by digital card machines?

I say, old chap, you're not the guy on Yahoo! Answers asking endless "What do you think (US city) will be like in 20 years?" How on earth would anyone know, especially an ordinary Yahoo! Answers user?
If you are the gentleman, I apologize for the rude responses I might have given one or two of your posts pertaining to a suspected lack of common sense

 

[razor89]

There's a few good reasons why the unions will fight these proposals though. If the ticket office is closed and simply replaced with a TVM, leaving the station unstaffed, then passenger safety is compromised, particularly if you remove the guard from the train.

If a TOC goes down the road LU are taking ie. closing the ticket office and putting the staff outside then the safety of the staff member is compromised. Lone working is ok if you're sitting safe in an enclosed office with an attack alarm but I for one would never agree to stand outside on my own, far too much risk involved.

I'd also question the logic of giving a no doubt very expensive tablet to carry round with them as LU are suggesting, surely you're just making staff targets to be mugged?

 

[SS4]

No, I just don't think smartcard ticketing will be feasible on NR. There are too many stations and some of which are little more than halts. Someone will have to maintain any machines too.

As an insurance if the government can only barely construct HS2 in 20 years this proposal has no chance

 

[telstarbox]

TfL are still proposing to keep ticket offices at the major stations and I can't see major stations outside London having no form of ticket office at all, even if everyone is using smartcards.

Remember that the range of tickets and services sold at a NR station is a lot more extensive than at a LU station, so it is more likely that face-to-face assistance will be required: Railcards, Advance tickets, seat reservations, cycle reservations, booked assistance, etc.

 

[LexyBoy]

No, I just don't think smartcard ticketing will be feasible on NR. There are too many stations and some of which are little more than halts. Someone will have to maintain any machines too.

London's got smartcards on NR. Here's the way to do it:

1. Make all fares available only on smartcard.
2. Introduce a new "paper ticket" Anytime fare at above the cost of the "smartcard" Anytime fare.
3. Provide no smartcard facilities at stations.
4. Close ticket offices due to no demand.
5. ???
6. Profit!

(as a bonus, make sure to introduce plenty of new restrictions during step 1).

 

[ushawk]

No, especially not at stations such as Gatwick Airport or Victoria.

 

[IKBrunel]

it's true that more people are buying tickets online, at machines etc.
What we need to do is follow the sensible example of small-medium sized German stations and setup combined shops or cafes which also sell tickets.

this way the viability of the shop/cafe is improved and there is a human presence at stations which otherwise have none, or longer opening hours can be justified.

but I reckon cafe workers are less likely to be union members so the unions aren't interested but just fight their own corner.

 

[ECML180]

I for one would never agree to stand outside on my own, far too much risk involved.

I can understand that being behind a glass screen in an office is a necessity at some times, especially on Friday & Saturday nights! However I don't see why standing in a public place creates much risk, people can get a bit 'overheated' when delays and cancellations happen but for the vast majority of the time I'd say it's a perfectly safe place to be!

 

[telstarbox]

Merseyrail already have combined ticket/convenience shops at some stations IIRC.

You could still have smartcards on unstaffed lines eg the Hope Valley - passengers could just touch in/out inside the train, or the guard could have a portable reader.

 

[IKBrunel]

I'd also question the logic of giving a no doubt very expensive tablet to carry round with them as LU are suggesting, surely you're just making staff targets to be mugged?

Wont be an ipad. Will probably be some industrial tablet. Wouldn't be too difficult to configure them in way that they would have minimal value on ebay.
I think trying to sell an LU tablet on ebay would be a bit like trying to sell a TOC portable ticket machine tablet...
They could also have built in security features, panic button, gps tracking for example.

 

[Aictos]

Yes I think a lot will see reduced opening hours except of course if the local MP happens to be a Tory in which case don't worry

By that I'm referring to a certain station on the GN which only kept it's Sunday opening hours with pressure from the local MP despite the station in question being less busy then other stations :roll:

 

[Mojo]

Wont be an ipad. Will probably be some industrial tablet. Wouldn't be too difficult to configure them in way that they would have minimal value on ebay.
I think trying to sell an LU tablet on ebay would be a bit like trying to sell a TOC portable ticket machine tablet...
They could also have built in security features, panic button, gps tracking for example.

LU staff will be using iPads, at least initially.

Panic button is unnecessary as this is already built in to the Connect radio.

 

[HSTEd]

This reminds me that I need to fill out the paperwork for my PRIV Oyster.....

 

[pt_mad]

There's a few good reasons why the unions will fight these proposals though. If the ticket office is closed and simply replaced with a TVM, leaving the station unstaffed, then passenger safety is compromised, particularly if you remove the guard from the train.

If a TOC goes down the road LU are taking ie. closing the ticket office and putting the staff outside then the safety of the staff member is compromised. Lone working is ok if you're sitting safe in an enclosed office with an attack alarm but I for one would never agree to stand outside on my own, far too much risk involved.

From my experience at my own TOC, there are many customers who are still not happy buying from a machine and won't. Even if they ask if they can pay on the train and are told 'really you are suppossed to buy from the machine' we often hear 'I can't use it' or 'its too complicated' or 'I'd rather buy on the train' etc etc. And this happens a lot.

With regards to stations being unstaffed and unsafe, platform staff could be present instead as the demand for booked assistance is only going to increase in the future at all locations. Whatever anyone says about staffing I can't see a time when whole town stations will be unstaffed simply because of the rising level of customer assists.

 

[jamesst]

Wont be an ipad. Will probably be some industrial tablet. Wouldn't be too difficult to configure them in way that they would have minimal value on ebay.
I think trying to sell an LU tablet on ebay would be a bit like trying to sell a TOC portable ticket machine tablet...
They could also have built in security features, panic button, gps tracking for example.

Don't kid yourself,some people will steal anything! No security features will stop you getting a smack whilst they're trying to get it!

 

[joeykins82]

iOS7 devices are not a good choice for would-be thieves: once they're associated with an Apple ID they can be remotely locked and tracked very easily. I know of 2 arrests that have been made just from people in my social circle having had their iPhones/iPads stolen and recovered by police.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/317847/Cops-use-GPS-to-nick-iPad-thief

 

[Pugwash]

The main barrier to this is the obvious nightmare of our over complicated ticketing system.

See this thread for how many ticketing combinations / type's / restrictions to see why closing the ticket offices is not practical.

 

[gordonthemoron]

judging by what happened to Munich Hbf during the 3 years I lived nearby:

1. More TVMs
2. Fewer Ticket Windows
3. Reduced queuing at remaining ticket windows

I'd say that it is inevitable that there will be reduced possibility to buy a ticket from a real person in the future. Although I hope we don't go down the SJ (Sweden) route of charging a hefty premium for cash transactions made onboard (my cash ticket from Narvik to Lulea was nearly 100% more than if my card had worked in the TVM in Narvik).

 

[davetheguard]

It seems to me that there are two issues here, which are getting muddled-up at times on this thread, and they are not necessarily connected.

1. Ticket office closures
2. De-staffing stations.

The first one does not necessarily lead to the other, as the TfL proposal demonstrates.

However, with regard to the national network, at many smaller stations, with just one member of staff, that person not only sells tickets and deals with enquiries, they may also do some light cleaning, restock the toilets (if there are any), change posters, and keep the publicity racks full of timetables. At some locations they may even do a bit of gardening and water the hanging baskets in summer!

A myriad of tasks to do, so unless you're going to close the station building up and take it out of use, what would be the point of closing the ticket office: you'd still need a member of staff to do all the other things, so where would the saving be? And unless you installed ticket machines everywhere (which has an on-going cost) you'd be losing a lot of revenue too.

In short, no benefits, lots of dis-benefits; I can't see it happening much on the national network....

 

[IKBrunel]

This sort of multitasking would be a good justification to keep ticket offices open. But my impression locally is that much of the station cleaning, updating posters etc, is not done by ticket office staff, but by the folks in the TOC station maintenance van... Might elf & safety be part of that equation? or just restrictive working practises?

 

[3141]

At Overton, SWT have recently opened a new ticket office, bigger than the very basic building it has replaced, still only open during Mon. - Fri. morning peak hours, but the number of passengers at other times doesn't justify longer hours. I assume that the decision to build it means they don't intend to close it.

This is not a station where a shop could help support a ticket office at other times of the day. Not enough people live close to the station to justify a shop, as it's three quarters of a mile from the centre of the village. In the past there might have been a demand for a morning paper but today more people have a tablet or something similar and can read the news on that. We do get copies of Metro placed outside the booking office!

I should think there are many stations where the situation is similar and it's not realistic to provide a shop to help subsidise longer booking office hours.

 

[bb21]

London's got smartcards on NR. Here's the way to do it:

1. Make all fares available only on smartcard.
2. Introduce a new "paper ticket" Anytime fare at above the cost of the "smartcard" Anytime fare.
3. Provide no smartcard facilities at stations.
4. Close ticket offices due to no demand.
5. ???
6. Profit!

(as a bonus, make sure to introduce plenty of new restrictions during step 1).

Don't give TfL any ideas.

Oh, wait. It's too late. The first two have already happened.

 

[pt_mad]

However, with regard to the national network, at many smaller stations, with just one member of staff, that person not only sells tickets and deals with enquiries, they may also do some light cleaning, restock the toilets (if there are any), change posters, and keep the publicity racks full of timetables. At some locations they may even do a bit of gardening and water the hanging baskets in summer!

This sort of arrangement is more widespread that you might think.

Also tasks may include monitoring CCTV, station security searches (x times daily), providing mobility assistance/ramps and locking up in many cases.

Also general customer service. Eg. if last train was cancelled and 3 people were stranded it would help if a staff member was present to arrange taxis although I realise there is often a help point there.

 

[Markdvdman]

Arriva have said they will not close any ticket offices so that means no closures until the franchise is over.

I am utterly against it for social/safety reasons, and that some people are simply averse to technology.

Those ticket machines use resistive technology as opposed to capacitive anyway - no wonder they are not conducive to friendliness to those averse!

They may be capacitive in London - but I am referring to what I have seen in Welsh stations

 

[Simon11]

Why do we require to have all station staffed at all times?

Some comments relate to safety issues, especially at night. Should that mean that we should have every bus stopped manned to protect the safety of customers and to help with ticketing?

At my local station, the station is always manned, however the guy just hangs around inside the ticket office. Never ever see them going on a patrol, being out in public or doing anything useful. Seems a waste of money really!

I don't see why people can't just use the help points to get information and in case of emergency's?

 

[Mojo]

The role of station staff could be expanded from merely working in the ticket office - at some smaller locations already station staff are responsible for mobility assistance, train dispatch, light cleaning, general customer service duties, gateline monitoring, poster and leaflet replenishment, security checks and so on, in addition to staffing the ticket office.

With further training why can station staff not be able to undertake an even greater range of activities such as playing a key role in incident management or assisting with small-scale lineside incidents in the vicinity of the station? With the fragmented nature of the railway at present this is unlikely, but would improve the variety of the role and perhaps even make the powers that be see that providing a member of station staff is much more than someone who sells tickets and makes customers on stations feel secure?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Don't kid yourself,some people will steal anything! No security features will stop you getting a smack whilst they're trying to get it!

as has been seen with the theft of the following from Ambulance service vehicles

- the screen from 'built in ' aftermarket Sat navs , it's literally just a screen - the optical disc drive and processor are buried in the dash and the controls are a seperate IR remote control / wired keypad

- the screens / head units of various forms of terrfix tracking / MDT device - again just a screen or a screen and keypad combined ... the radio, processor, GPS and any HDD/ optical disc drive are hidden away i nthe dash / under the seats etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
it's almost the same as the issues in the pre-beeching BR where statiosn were not only 'Staffed' but were staffed with a full complement of different roles , a Stationmaster, a porter, a ticket clerk , etc and never the twain shall cross over in job demarcation issues ...

how benenficial to the 'passenger experience' overall is someone in a little hut / behind a little window selling tickets vs the general customer service / safety / mobility asssitance / reassuring presence of 'platform staff' porter cum customer service agent cum security/ safety person