WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Cowley]

And from here on it is decreed from on high (well us anyway ) that this thread will be exclusively dedicated to the discussion of class 196s.

Please stay on topic because if you don’t we’ll delete it and that’ll be time spent typing out things about 197s etc that you’ll never get back…

I thank you.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Can I just say how irritating it is to see a 196 alongside a 172 purely due to the contrasting colours of luminous orange and dull orangey-gold respectively. I hope they'll apply some sort of orange vinyl over the gold at least for consistency. Might seem trivial but WMT have done all this work for a consistent West Midlands brand, they might as well uphold a homogeneous livery.

 

[craigybagel]

Can I just say how irritating it is to see a 196 alongside a 172 purely due to the contrasting colours of luminous orange and dull orangey-gold respectively. I hope they'll apply some sort of orange vinyl over the gold at least for consistency. Might seem trivial but WMT have done all this work for a consistent West Midlands brand, they might as well uphold a homogeneous livery.

I'm not sure we can talk about a consistent West Midlands brand given how many services are worked by 350s in LNWR colours!

 

[GWVillager]

Can I just say how irritating it is to see a 196 alongside a 172 purely due to the contrasting colours of luminous orange and dull orangey-gold respectively. I hope they'll apply some sort of orange vinyl over the gold at least for consistency. Might seem trivial but WMT have done all this work for a consistent West Midlands brand, they might as well uphold a homogeneous livery.

I personally really like the gold on the 172s- it suits the body profile, perhaps not on the 196s though. Honestly I don’t think the difference is significant enough to re-vinyl. It may well be that the original plan was to livery the 172s in the 196 orange livery but there were some interim 170/323 gold vinyls left over. Whatever the explanation though, the 196s are unfortunately different.

 

[43102EMR]

I personally really like the gold on the 172s- it suits the body profile, perhaps not on the 196s though. Honestly I don’t think the difference is significant enough to re-vinyl. It may well be that the original plan was to livery the 172s in the 196 orange livery but there were some interim 170/323 gold vinyls left over. Whatever the explanation though, the 196s are unfortunately different.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the vinyl was temporary pending a full repaint programme - then again, one can dream…

 

[GWVillager]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the vinyl was temporary pending a full repaint programme - then again, one can dream…

Well, one can dream of the 196s entering service on time! I wonder where we’d be now if they had… On a more topical note, will the strikes have impacted the training schedules to a point where the Summer introduction becomes infeasable?

 

[Undiscovered]

Well, one can dream of the 196s entering service on time! I wonder where we’d be now if they had… On a more topical note, will the strikes have impacted the training schedules to a point where the Summer introduction becomes infeasable?

No.
Strikes will have no impact on the training programmes at all.

 

[tomuk]

No.
Strikes will have no impact on the training programmes at all.

So training and mileage accumulation carried on during strike days?

 

[Undiscovered]

You can not disrupt that which is not planned.

 

[tomuk]

You can not disrupt that which is not planned.

Was it not planned on those days due to strikes?

 

[Undiscovered]

There are no plans.
Strike days, normal days. There are no plans.

 

[tomuk]

There are no plans.
Strike days, normal days. There are no plans.

What no plans for WMT to accept the trains and no plans for any driver or guard training?

 

[warwickshire]

Also a very good reliable source tells me,that the 196s are also going to be used in time on the Leamington Spa to Nuneaton shuttles via Coventry in due course after the Hereford and Shrewsbury training has been Completed.

 

[superkev]

Looking back through this thread deliveries appeared to start in Dec 2019.
It never ceases to amaze me how long it takes to get trains in the uk earning passenger revenue.
K

 

[InOban]

There are no plans.
Strike days, normal days. There are no plans.

Not according to the posts between 990 and 1000....

 

[newtownmgr]

Also a very good reliable source tells me,that the 196s are also going to be used in time on the Leamington Spa to Nuneaton shuttles via Coventry in due course after the Hereford and Shrewsbury training has been Completed.

Seeing as there are no plans to train either Leamington or Coventry crews that is highly unlikely. Those services will stay 172’s.

 

[GWVillager]

There are no plans.
Strike days, normal days. There are no plans.

Really? I’m sure I remember hearing some quite recently

 

[DannyMich2018]

Looking back through this thread deliveries appeared to start in Dec 2019.
It never ceases to amaze me how long it takes to get trains in the uk earning passenger revenue.
K

I believe it was April or May 2020 first delivery to Tyseley. It is very disappointing that these days it takes so long compared to even just a few years ago to introduce new trains. Yes Covid has delayed things of course.
Let's hope they enter service soon.
I'm surprised it's taking twice as long as the 195s for these to enter service as they are a smaller fleet and be used on less routes so you'd think that would speed up Introduction.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I believe it was April or May 2020 first delivery to Tyseley. It is very disappointing that these days it takes so long compared to even just a few years ago to introduce new trains. Yes Covid has delayed things of course.
Let's hope they enter service soon.
I'm surprised it's taking twice as long as the 195s for these to enter service as they are a smaller fleet and be used on less routes so you'd think that would speed up Introduction.

don't forget that due to our stupid railway each operator treats the stock as though its first of type and spends months running it up and down. when an airline buys an airbus its had a couple of take off /landing and 30min cruise and its good to go. Airline send a crew over to Hamburg they ferry back to UK in service the following day.

 

[TRAX]

don't forget that due to our stupid railway each operator treats the stock as though its first of type and spends months running it up and down. when an airline buys an airbus its had a couple of take off /landing and 30min cruise and its good to go. Airline send a crew over to Hamburg they ferry back to UK in service the following day.

The good old days of the Class 66s being unloaded at the port and delivering themselves seem very far gone now…

 

[Mollman]

don't forget that due to our stupid railway each operator treats the stock as though its first of type and spends months running it up and down. when an airline buys an airbus its had a couple of take off /landing and 30min cruise and its good to go. Airline send a crew over to Hamburg they ferry back to UK in service the following day.

But presumably there is many hours of static testing by Airbus to ensure build quality.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But presumably there is many hours of static testing by Airbus to ensure build quality.

Absolutely but no different to what CAF or any other train builder do before the vehicle is released onto the network. Also I'm all for at least 1000 miles of fault free running before train is handed over to operator but then it should be used not need many months of type testing if its already certified by another operator.

 

[12guard4]

People forgetting these trains have had a significant number of issues and arrived nowhere near a fit state to enter service.

 

[GWVillager]

People forgetting these trains have had a significant number of issues and arrived nowhere near a fit state to enter service.

Yes that is true, but aren’t they mainly resolved now?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

People forgetting these trains have had a significant number of issues and arrived nowhere near a fit state to enter service.

So did the 195's but even useless Northern got them in traffic.

 

[Class172]

So did the 195's but even useless Northern got them in traffic.

I’d personally rather accept something that has had its issues ironed out, than something that is likely to break and cause disruption once one tries to introduce it into public service.

 

[Techniquest]

I’d personally rather accept something that has had its issues ironed out, than something that is likely to break and cause disruption once one tries to introduce it into public service.

I concur. We have waited 3 years for the 196s, we can keep waiting, safe in the knowledge there are some clever people out there making the new trains work properly The team at EMR may not be so happy to wait for the 170s, granted, but it is what it is and, after all it is like the saying goes 'better late than never'!

I'm hoping to add a couple of 196s to my book later for sight, the ones I've seen in Shrewsbury look really good and I really think they'll be well received when they finally start in service!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

People forgetting these trains have had a significant number of issues and arrived nowhere near a fit state to enter service.

Indeed, not far short of a send that all back situation. Given that operational issues arised as soon as train crew training commenced it really does look incredibly bad on CAF (somewhat expected).

don't forget that due to our stupid railway each operator treats the stock as though its first of type and spends months running it up and down. when an airline buys an airbus its had a couple of take off /landing and 30min cruise and its good to go. Airline send a crew over to Hamburg they ferry back to UK in service the following day.

New stock has to have a set amount of fault free running, this is not new and it doesn't matter whether it's the same type or not.

Stop comparing to planes, which clearly also go through fault free usage but BEFORE handover to the customer. Not likely they are allowed to fly straight from factory floor is it!

Given the number of issues these have had since arriving at Tyseley, clearly FFR is exactly what should be happening.

 

[QSK19]

I concur. We have waited 3 years for the 196s, we can keep waiting, safe in the knowledge there are some clever people out there making the new trains work properly The team at EMR may not be so happy to wait for the 170s, granted, but it is what it is and, after all it is like the saying goes 'better late than never'!

I'm hoping to add a couple of 196s to my book later for sight, the ones I've seen in Shrewsbury look really good and I really think they'll be well received when they finally start in service!

As you cover in your post, I think you may get some very grumpy EMR Regional passengers who would protest at the it is what it is bit (what with shortformed services, cancelled services, trains which are really feeling their age, desperate for additional stock, etc); and the better late than never bit for 20+ year old trains (not something to look forward to with completely open arms!) ; but, yes, I do agree with you.

Tell you what, though… when the 196s do eventually come into service, they’d better be worth the wait!

Indeed, not far short of a send that all back situation.

Oh gosh no - don’t say that in front of the EMR team! That’d result in an even longer than wait for the 170s if the 196s got sent back! Mind you, given EMR’s reputation for receiving faulty stock, we may as well take the 196s and WMR keep the 170s

 

[SCDR_WMR]

As you cover in your post, I think you may get some very grumpy EMR Regional passengers who would protest at the it is what it is bit (what with shortformed services, cancelled services, trains which are really feeling their age, desperate for additional stock, etc); and the better late than never bit for 20+ year old trains (not something to look forward to with completely open arms!) ; but, yes, I do agree with you.

Tell you what, though… when the 196s do eventually come into service, they’d better be worth the wait!


Oh gosh no - don’t say that in front of the EMR team! That’d result in an even longer than wait for the 170s if the 196s got sent back! Mind you, given EMR’s reputation for receiving faulty stock, we may as well take the 196s and WMR keep the 170s

Haha, thankfully that was the situation back in 2020 tbh. I believe that all major issues are now resolved and they are physically ready for introduction now given we are now at crew training stage