HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
Huh - how do you know this when it is in the future?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Worst lines for cancellations
- Thread starter crispy1978
- Start date
- Status
Huh - how do you know this when it is in the future?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
He means after 9am, there is/was a man stood on a railway bridge (that runs over a road) attempting to jump off. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/GMB/2015/11/19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
Yes, I have been hearing on the local radio all about it. My understanding is that he can't be tasered
Still reported as up there by Grimsby Telegraph, so thats about 11 hours he's been up there (and the road and railway line have been closed).
It does look like the Barton unit is stuck on the other side of the incident? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30188/2015/11/19/advanced
And an East Midlands 153 is stuck at Grimsby Town after working this service http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C82375/2015/11/19/advanced
To be fair I didn't hear anything about it on the radio until after lunchtime and as its was just reported as some minor disruption to trains in/out of Grimsby thought nothing of it really (just sounded like some delays).
Last edited:
HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
On the plus side of things, Barnetby became busier today
Sorry but what is your magical solution against low rail adhesion at this time of year?
And the man was removed/got down from the bridge around 2035 after an 11 hour stand off.
Last edited:
and until next Monday at the earliest
crispy1978
Member
Another bad week for the Barton Line.
Granted yesterday with the trespass issue was unavoidable, of the 18 daily services, the following were cancelled:
Monday (16th) - 4
Tuesday (17th) - 8
Wednesday (18th) - 4
Thursday (19th) - 13 (inc 1 terminated at Stallingborough due to trespass) (inc 12 totally cancelled due to trespass) {note some noted as due to lack of train crew on RTT but suspect that incorrect}
Friday (20th) - 10
TOTAL 39/90 (43.33% cancelled)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More trespassers on the line at Grimsby.
Granted yesterday with the trespass issue was unavoidable, of the 18 daily services, the following were cancelled:
Monday (16th) - 4
Tuesday (17th) - 8
Wednesday (18th) - 4
Thursday (19th) - 13 (inc 1 terminated at Stallingborough due to trespass) (inc 12 totally cancelled due to trespass) {note some noted as due to lack of train crew on RTT but suspect that incorrect}
Friday (20th) - 10
TOTAL 39/90 (43.33% cancelled)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More trespassers on the line at Grimsby.
Last edited:
Chris M
Member
Whatever magic the rest of the country uses.
All TOCs have the same shortage of rolling stock.
All TOCs the same issues with low rail adhesion at this time of year.
Only AGA close whole branch lines because of it.
That's not entirely true actually. Trains that go along rural routes with infrequent services are far far more likely to suffer seriously poor rail adhesion than on mainlines with frequent services. The first train over the Marks Tey - Sudbury line on Monday is likely to experience seriously low rail adhesion because no trains have been over there for over a week.
tsr
Established Member
The Uckfield line has come scarily close to being shut for hours at a time about two or three times over the last couple of weeks due to wheelslip and RHTT issues - sometimes even prevention efforts are no better!
Admittedly this wouldn't have been for all of a day, but could easily have become a cumulative total of around 2 days' service given the existing platform extension blockades.
plastictaffy
Member
The Sanders and WSP on the 31slides are terribly poor, I'm told.
AND.. Norwich to Yarmouths (both routes) ! mismanagment ? or bad driving ? or just too many units needing the lathe at the same time ? Dont think 'leaf fall' has been any different this year to previous years ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
with regards to (1) once this is sorted can they tell the rest of Europe
Can't comment on East Anglia, but up here in Lancs the combination of leaf fall and prolonged heavy rain after a dry October has been very noticeable. The pattern does vary from year to year.
I don't know what happened to the Barton unit yesterday after it got 'stranded' on the Barton side of the trespass incident.
Today, the first service (0600 ex Cleethorpes and return to Grimsby) was cancelled because there was no unit at Cleethorpes to form it (because of yesterdays trespass). Then the 0700 was cancelled because its inbound service (0529 from Doncaster) was around an hour late, then the other 3 out and back services (the 1255/1900/2104 ex Cleethorpes and return) look to have been cancelled because of crew shortages.
crispy1978
Member
Thanks for the info.
It obviously can't have been at Cleethorpes or Barton otherwise you'd assume the first two services would have run. But then I'm guessing the services for the day run off the 0529 to Doncaster, so did it tootle off down there empty overnight?
Can't see anything picked up on RTT which indicates it moving.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
I think Barton line cancellation falls into total insignicfance compared to say the 0802 from Beckenham Junction to Blackfriars - average load over 800 passengers...
Kite159
Veteran Member
Looks like the Marston Vale line is down an unit today .
All services through Liverpool South Parkway platforms 1-4 have been terrible the last few days due to a combination of things. Leaf fall, a lineside fire at Winsford, a plastic bag on a pantograph at Runcorn, a track fault between Stalybridge and Huddersfield, some other stuff to, can't remember everything that had gone wrong, a perfect storm. Ha ha.
I must add, generally I find it pretty good.
I must add, generally I find it pretty good.
Last edited:
greenline727
Member
- Joined
- 23 Sep 2015
- Messages
- 7
Apparently the leaves this year are fat and juicy due to the wettish summer . . . that'll make the crushed leaves on the line even more slippery than in previous (drier) years.
From the experience of a colleague on the way to Sudbury last (I think) Thursday week ago, the unit lost 20 minutes from Marks Tey to Sudbury due to poor adhesion (this was around 1900); approaching the summit on the branch (around Bures) speed was literally down to walking pace.
That'll be one unit with totally wrecked wheel profiles. That's also why there's been no service on the branch for over a week . . . . AGA can't afford to lose a unit a day just to keep one branch running.
For those who are too young to remember . . . . . . autumn leaf fall has always been a problem . . . Gerard Fiennes referred to it in his book in the 1960's! In brief . . . . older trains had brake blocks which scrubbed the wheel clean each time they were used (think brake blocks on bicycles). However, these blocks wore out quickly, and needed a lot of maintenance. So . . . . . from the 1980's onwards, trains had disc brakes which needed less maintenance. All well and good so far, but now the wheels weren't "scrubbed" by the brake blocks, so leaf fall (and ice) became a bigger problem. Hence the need for Sandite and Rail Head Treatment Trains (of which there simply aren't (a) enough and (b) if there were more, there aren't any paths (a service train would need to be cancelled to allow a RHTT to run on the Sudbury branch, for example).
What is the answer? I'm not sure that there actually is one, other than to accept the problem and have sufficient resources to deal with it for the 3 weeks a year that it happens {lots of spare units, and wheel lathes (very expensive) in every depot, that are really only required every November}. The bean counters would have something to say about that, I'm sure!!!
From the experience of a colleague on the way to Sudbury last (I think) Thursday week ago, the unit lost 20 minutes from Marks Tey to Sudbury due to poor adhesion (this was around 1900); approaching the summit on the branch (around Bures) speed was literally down to walking pace.
That'll be one unit with totally wrecked wheel profiles. That's also why there's been no service on the branch for over a week . . . . AGA can't afford to lose a unit a day just to keep one branch running.
For those who are too young to remember . . . . . . autumn leaf fall has always been a problem . . . Gerard Fiennes referred to it in his book in the 1960's! In brief . . . . older trains had brake blocks which scrubbed the wheel clean each time they were used (think brake blocks on bicycles). However, these blocks wore out quickly, and needed a lot of maintenance. So . . . . . from the 1980's onwards, trains had disc brakes which needed less maintenance. All well and good so far, but now the wheels weren't "scrubbed" by the brake blocks, so leaf fall (and ice) became a bigger problem. Hence the need for Sandite and Rail Head Treatment Trains (of which there simply aren't (a) enough and (b) if there were more, there aren't any paths (a service train would need to be cancelled to allow a RHTT to run on the Sudbury branch, for example).
What is the answer? I'm not sure that there actually is one, other than to accept the problem and have sufficient resources to deal with it for the 3 weeks a year that it happens {lots of spare units, and wheel lathes (very expensive) in every depot, that are really only required every November}. The bean counters would have something to say about that, I'm sure!!!
Inspector999
Member
Rail head treatment is largely done by water jetting. A number of treatment trains follow quite complex diagrams during the day and during the night to cover priority routes and high risk areas.
One of biggest cause of delay isn't loss of adhesion for traction/braking but where the contamination builds up on either the rail or the wheels to the extent that the train "disappears" on track circuit routes. When the train "disappears" the signal in rear clears allowing two trains into the same section - not good!
When this occurs the train is removed from service for the wheels to be cleaned up but if the track contamination is the issue then services have to be curtailed sufficiently to allow a controlled signal to be held at danger until each train is safely through the dodgy area - not such a big problem if there is a controlled signal immediately before the problem area but if there are several automatic signals before the problem area then this can create what amounts in practice to a signal section a few miles long when previously it was a quarter or half mile section. A severe loss of capacity ensues.
One of biggest cause of delay isn't loss of adhesion for traction/braking but where the contamination builds up on either the rail or the wheels to the extent that the train "disappears" on track circuit routes. When the train "disappears" the signal in rear clears allowing two trains into the same section - not good!
When this occurs the train is removed from service for the wheels to be cleaned up but if the track contamination is the issue then services have to be curtailed sufficiently to allow a controlled signal to be held at danger until each train is safely through the dodgy area - not such a big problem if there is a controlled signal immediately before the problem area but if there are several automatic signals before the problem area then this can create what amounts in practice to a signal section a few miles long when previously it was a quarter or half mile section. A severe loss of capacity ensues.
Last edited:
crispy1978
Member
Quite possibly - but the subject of the topic is the worst line for cancellations. Given just about all trains have been cancelled on it today, that's half the services in a week. By any standard, regardless of passenger numbers, it's unacceptable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y30189/2015/11/21/advanced
This service was cancelled throughout due to a request by the customer (FL).
How would that arise?
berneyarms
Established Member
Probably an error - look at the immediately preceding inward working to Barton
Well sort of, the 0700 was cancelled because the 0529 ex Doncaster was very late. The 0600 was cancelled because there was no unit at Cleethorpes to form it after the previous days unit ran off somewhere but as you say nothing on RTT (which isn't a first).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But then again if a Barton service is cancelled (excluding first thing in the morning) then you have a two hour wait for the following service. Services running from Beckenham Junction to Blackfriars are much more frequent (obviously though those services run with much greater loadings than the Barton line).
Last edited:
- Status