Worst maintained train interior?

[ScotGG]

Should the DfT be stipulating tighter conditions in regards to maintenance? Regular unannounced inspections and the like?

 

[bramling]

Should the DfT be stipulating tighter conditions in regards to maintenance? Regular unannounced inspections and the like?

I think the answer to that question is very much "yes".

I'd far rather franchises had firm commitments over quality of cleaning and maintenance than the current fad for new trains.

 

[47271]

Should the DfT be stipulating tighter conditions in regards to maintenance? Regular unannounced inspections and the like?

This is exactly what SQUIRE (Service Quality Incentive Regime) does with Scotrail, with Transport Scotland fining the franchisee for cleaning and maintenance failures both onboard and at stations.

So on the whole Scotrail's trains are free of graffiti and cleaning is generally better than on most operators. However, what SQUIRE doesn't appear to do is encourage refurbishment of threadbare interiors since we have plenty of these in Scotland: the 158s already mentioned and some very worn out 170s are two examples that spring to mind. To be fair, Scotrail has been so rooked for diesel stock in the past few years that it would be difficult to see how they could refurb any faster than they have been.

Turning the larger question on its head: by common consent SWT's internal maintenance of its fleet was exemplary. What were they doing that the others don't, and can we expect a decline under new management?

 

[Domh245]

Turning the larger question on its head: by common consent SWT's internal maintenance of its fleet was exemplary. What were they doing that the others don't, and can we expect a decline under new management?

The view of some was that they had a reasonably generous fleet requirement, something partially backed up by the fact that they were subleasing units to EMT and GWR. That meant more time for units to be on depot, and better reliability all round

 

[Parallel]

158s still in FGW colours, every time. I've been on services without working overhead lighting (at night - maybe a few tubes per carriage operational), some/most seats being half exposed sponge, carriages strewn with litter, and all toilets out of order, no working air con. I'm not sure how GWR are not embarrassed especially when they must work through the Salisbury-Portsmouth corridor passing spotless SWR units!

Indeed. I was on a unit a couple of weeks ago - the carriage I was in had minimal lighting, no heating and all three toilets out of order. The seats are also kept in a poor condition, notably Richmond seat cushions becoming completely detached, original 158 BR seat covers coming off and 150/1 seat cushions becoming detached or missing all together. One 153 even had a Wessex Trains seat cover recently!

ATW’s 14x and unrefreshed 150s are pretty grim too. Considering the pacers have had a refresh recently, there’s still loads of dirt that looks like it’s been there for years. Compare that to the GWR 143s which are virtually spotless!

 

[greyman42]

Cross Country HST's are looking very shabby. This does not need to be the case when you compare them to VTEC/GWR/EMT. Still better than a Voyager though.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I used to see people sit on 319 seats and the seat would automatically slip off! It never happened to me because I always refused to sit down on them.

It always led to hilarious slapstick off-peak.

 

[Hadders]

So much for the "easy to clean" finishes on the 700s. In fact, we have seen exactly the same with the 365s when at their recent refresh they lost carpet in favour of vinyl. This sort of interior design simply shows up dirt and mess a lot more.

I agree with this which was so predictable. Since the 365s suffered their dumbing down they look far shabbier than they ever did when they had carpet.

Give passengers a better looking interior and there’s more chance of them looking after it.

 

[jon0844]

I agree with this which was so predictable. Since the 365s suffered their dumbing down they look far shabbier than they ever did when they had carpet.

Give passengers a better looking interior and there’s more chance of them looking after it.

Carpet can hide a lot of dirt, although at this time of year the carpeting often gets covered in salt from platforms. The vinyl flooring seems able to show dirt at all times of the year, but I can imagine is still being cleaned regularly or would look even worse.

Seats are often covered in salt, suggesting that feet on seats is a big problem (but we already knew that, as anyone walking through a train off-peak and late at night will know only too well).

 

[philthetube]

While the 465s are somewhat unloved, having been on 142s with random seats missing and seat cushions that fall off, 150s with internal doors missing and missing seat cushions, and 156s and 158s with missing tables, I must say that Northern have a much worse record with maintaining their interiors, usually due to the strain on needing everything out and operating.

It always seems to me that trains operating from the East side of the northern area are much dirtier than those from the west, travel from Leeds to Skipton and the floors are minging, travel from Colne to Preston and they are much better, despite the age and type of stock.

 

[spookywestie]

From my experience, many Merseyrail units often contain a suspicious amount of sand, especially during summer months...

 

[507 001]

ATW’s 175s for sure!

I would second that. Last one I went on (during summer) was absolutely filthy.

 

[bramling]

Carpet can hide a lot of dirt, although at this time of year the carpeting often gets covered in salt from platforms. The vinyl flooring seems able to show dirt at all times of the year, but I can imagine is still being cleaned regularly or would look even worse.

Seats are often covered in salt, suggesting that feet on seats is a big problem (but we already knew that, as anyone walking through a train off-peak and late at night will know only too well).

Agree with all of this. Carpet may be slightly harder to clean, but it hides dirt better which ultimately provides a better ambience for passengers.

The carpet on the 365s lasted a decade a time, and this is on heavily used trains. Even after a decade of wear it didn't look too bad. I'd say that represents good value for money.

The vinyl on the 365s has looked disgusting almost from day one. It shows up every little mark, same on the Undesiros.

 

[philthetube]

The S stock on the Met is now around 6 years old and, apart from the odd bit of graffiti looks like new, is this down to maintenance or design, I would much rather have a floor so obviously clean than a carpet.

 

[BestWestern]

Indeed. I was on a unit a couple of weeks ago - the carriage I was in had minimal lighting, no heating and all three toilets out of order. The seats are also kept in a poor condition, notably Richmond seat cushions becoming completely detached, original 158 BR seat covers coming off and 150/1 seat cushions becoming detached or missing all together. One 153 even had a Wessex Trains seat cover recently!

ATW’s 14x and unrefreshed 150s are pretty grim too. Considering the pacers have had a refresh recently, there’s still loads of dirt that looks like it’s been there for years. Compare that to the GWR 143s which are virtually spotless!

Minimum lighting and no heating on a 158 means an isolated engine. A mechanical issue certainly, but not a problem with the interior as such. Toilets and aircon issues are well known sadly, toilets are at least helped by the refurb being carried out across the 158 fleet.

 

[mugam4]

Minimum lighting and no heating on a 158 means an isolated engine. A mechanical issue certainly, but not a problem with the interior as such. Toilets and aircon issues are well known sadly, toilets are at least helped by the refurb being carried out across the 158 fleet.

But all too regular. And I never notice any of these issues on the SWR fleet.
I've seen locked out toilets with FGW fault stickers on dated 05/17!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Had a Merseytravel Pacer earlier from Leeds to Batley, didn't note the number. One double seat missing in the DMSL, two doubles missing in the DMS which at least gave me some legroom! Seats were filthy though, as were the ones on the 222 I had from Sheffield to Leicester and back.

Surprisingly, the nicest stock on my journey from Batley to Leicester and back were Northern 158s!

 

[Melancholia]

GWR 2 car Class 165s. They're not the worst we've seen on the rails, but what seems to be popular inside these are the small tables in declassified 1st are missing, and cables tend to hang down from underneath the seats. Some even have missing light switch buttons (which shouldn't work now). And there's just a general "eugh" feel inside those.

 

[TheAdelante]

GWR 2 car Class 165s. They're not the worst we've seen on the rails, but what seems to be popular inside these are the small tables in declassified 1st are missing, and cables tend to hang down from underneath the seats. Some even have missing light switch buttons (which shouldn't work now). And there's just a general "eugh" feel inside those.

That’s funny, I noticed both that the tables were missing and lamps broken only on Friday when I was on one! The “please Keep your train clean” signs were peeling off too.

 

[whhistle]

I think the worst trains I've travelled on were the early EMT ex FGW and ATW 153s and 158s. Those units were destroyed. I think EMT pretty much deserve an award for making a standard fleet out of such rubbish.

Wasn't it the very same EMT that said it would take them the length of their franchise to get the units to a standard they were happy with?
Believable, considering a large majority came from Central Trains.

Perhaps some sort of mass disruption should be organised. Disruptive passengers is down to the TOC right? Hit the train companies where it hurts and all that.

 

[talltim]

I have lost count of the number of times my brother and I have done the transfer from Waterloo East to Charing Cross by 465/466 and there’s been puddles of urine on the floor.....

EDIT:

I used to see people sit on 319 seats and the seat would automatically slip off! It never happened to me because I always refused to sit down on them.

I remember that happening occasionally when they were new

 

[SEClass375]

Currently travelling on a 465 and noticed a seat pad missing. Up to that point I didn't think they were that bad compared to a 455 which I also travelled on today. Not to mention that I travelled on a 707(006) today and noticed some etching on the windows already. Also on the 465 was some etching on a window but that can be sorted with replacing the protective film.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Currently travelling on a 465 and noticed a seat pad missing. Up to that point I didn't think they were that bad compared to a 455 which I also travelled on today. Not to mention that I travelled on a 707(006) today and noticed some etching on the windows already. Also on the 465 was some etching on a window but that can be sorted with replacing the protective film.

I hope we're not seeing a return to the window etching 'craze' which seemed to reach almost epidemic proportions (especially in South London) in the late 90's early 00's.

 

[yorksrob]

Had a Merseytravel Pacer earlier from Leeds to Batley, didn't note the number. One double seat missing in the DMSL, two doubles missing in the DMS which at least gave me some legroom! Seats were filthy though, as were the ones on the 222 I had from Sheffield to Leicester and back.

Surprisingly, the nicest stock on my journey from Batley to Leicester and back were Northern 158s!

And even without those faults, they were still Merseyrail pacers, worthy of gutting.

 

[fgwrich]

Completely agree with you on the Networker theme here. Another is from Great Western Railway - Yes GWR I'm looking at you. Simply put, the state that the 165 fleet has been left to reach is appalling. Yes, the cleaners at Reading station do the best they can, but despite FGW providing a rather high quality refurbishment a few years ago they've just been left to reach a pretty poor state - Toilets are nasty and frequently either not tanked or left in a state (They've always been an appalling design), the interiors feel grubby and dirty and the ex First Class area is appalling - carpets frequently ripped from the walls, some collapsed seats (A Haymarket 158 rival!) and a carpet so ingrained with dirt and dust that the FGW Blue has been turned into a well trodden flat brown. A refurbishment cant come soon enough for those things!

Sadly the South Eastern Networkers to equally pip it for me, just for retaining the original flooring - otherwise it's a close contest.

And yes, I know what you mean about the delightful Haymarket 158s! Thankfully GW seem to keep a little more on top of their Richmond seated units than ScotRail does.

GWR 2 car Class 165s. They're not the worst we've seen on the rails, but what seems to be popular inside these are the small tables in declassified 1st are missing, and cables tend to hang down from underneath the seats. Some even have missing light switch buttons (which shouldn't work now). And there's just a general "eugh" feel inside those.

Incidentally as this thread has come back, Here is a picture of the state of the carpets on one of GWRs 165 ends. Pretty representative of the entire fleet, still completely with very soiled carpets, missing Reading light buttons, cables hanging from under the seats and miniature tables ripped from the walls. What’s laughable is that this end is having is FC re-instated without some units having a cleanup first. So, bravo First Group!

 

[Breadman]

I understand this is a thread dedicated to dirty trains,
But I must say the last EMT HST I used was the cleanest train I have ever seen

 

[yorksrob]

I understand this is a thread dedicated to dirty trains,
But I must say the last EMT HST I used was the cleanest train I have ever seen

Yes, they seem generally well kept, although on the last one I travelled on, some of the seats in first needed the attention of sewing kit and some patchwork.

 

[physics34]

Currently many Southern units have stains on seats. Whether the stupid green 'astroturf' sandpaper seat covers show it off more than other colours or not, its clear that cleaning is not done enough. Also the floor area around most 377 disabled toilets is dirty and the toilets themselves need more cleaning when in service

 

[mushroomchow]

Rode in first class in an EMT HST for the first time recently.

Seat was comfy, but to call it tatty would be an understatement - there were great chunks missing from the leather fabric! Didn't exactly scream "premium", but I let it off based on it being my first and only time out of Oik Class.

That being said, the tattiest interior I've had the displeasure of experiencing comfortably goes to a specific ride up the West Coast on one of XC's Voyagers, which was only accentuated by the overcrowding typical of every service they seem to operate. The cramped, dingy interior coupled with the smell of faecal matter from the toilets and wear and tear on the carpets and seats was horrible - you could tell they hadn't had time to give it anything approaching a proper service in months. Even the windows were covered in scratch marks. It was more akin to the Rome Metro than an intercity service in this green and pleasant land.

Worst ambience I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing on a train, not helped in the slightest by jobsworth guards telling us we couldn't stand in the vestibule (first and last time I've ever heard that one)! Needless to say, it was chaos when the trolley made its rounds. I weep to know I never got to enjoy the Mk. 2 stock those insults to rail engineering replaced.

PS: Am I weird for liking bus-seat pacers? There's something nostalgic about them now - a trip along the Hope Valley in the snow with steamed-up windows...

 

[Mikey C]

465s do seem to suffer from misted up windows, where the inside of the glass in the hopper section is clearly damp. I don't know whether it's down to the stock or a lack of care?