Worst Rolling Stock in UK

[thefab444]

It's perfectly possible, just add some padding (or better springs) to the seats and put air-blowers in the luggage racks. They have them in aircraft, coaches and 365s. That would resolve both problems without having to rearrange the seating or make the windows open.

Part of the reason for the lesser padded seats is that in order to avoid a drastic reduction in the number of seats, they need to occupy less space as lots is required for (some people would say wasted on) disabled friendly facilities.

I much prefer Desiros or Electrostars to Slamdoors, but then again I really only remember the last 5 - 10 years of Slamdoor operations when the fleet was being run into the ground, and any new stock (yes, even 377s!) is a big improvement.

 

[LE Greys]

Part of the reason for the lesser padded seats is that in order to avoid a drastic reduction in the number of seats, they need to occupy less space as lots is required for (some people would say wasted on) disabled friendly facilities.

I much prefer Desiros or Electrostars to Slamdoors, but then again I really only remember the last 5 - 10 years of Slamdoor operations when the fleet was being run into the ground, and any new stock (yes, even 377s!) is a big improvement.

Surely extra padding underneath one's backside (where it is really needed) does not take up all that much room longitudinally. It merely raises one slightly towards the ceiling.

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely extra padding underneath one's backside (where it is really needed) does not take up all that much room longitudinally.

I have to agree with you there it doesn't make sense that the lacking of padding for one's behind is due to space requirements.

It's quite annoying actually as I quite like the Desiro seats in terms of back support it's just that the part that supports one's backside is to thin. If they put in say an inch or so of padding there I have to say I think the Desiro seats would be some of the best out there of the new gen rolling stock.

 

[LE Greys]

I have to agree with you there it doesn't make sense that the lacking of padding for one's behind is due to space requirements.

It's quite annoying actually as I quite like the Desiro seats in terms of back support it's just that the part that supports one's backside is to thin. If they put in say an inch or so of padding there I have to say I think the Desiro seats would be some of the best out there of the new gen rolling stock.

Aha! That might explain the difference. I normally don't worry about back support (comes from spending a lot of the time leaning forward over a notebook). It's bottom support that makes all the difference to me.

 

[thefab444]

Surely extra padding underneath one's backside (where it is really needed) does not take up all that much room longitudinally. It merely raises one slightly towards the ceiling.

That's a fair point, I assumed you meant back support. The seat cushions on the 350/1s and 444s aren't that bad, but the cushions on the 350/2s and 450s (and the same goes for all 375s and 377s in my experience) are pretty unforgiving and become uncomfortable after a while.

IMO, some of the best seat cushions on modern stock are the original seats fitted to the Class 158 and 159 units, the downside being absolutely no legroom for most seats! :x

 

[jay jay]

The 377s are simply dirty, uncomfortable (unless you get a connex spec unit) and when compared to a 450 - they don't come close. SWT know how to look after their trains don't they? All of their units are generally spotless and absolutely don't show their age. A 377 on the other hand? Well...

 

[WestCoast]

IMO, some of the best seat cushions on modern stock are the original seats fitted to the Class 158 and 159 units, the downside being absolutely no legroom for most seats! :x

Although upright seating can be good for your posture (I've been laughed at on here for saying that, but it's true!) - the class 158s with original seating are very comfy - the ex-Transpennine 3-car units with Northern are lovely!
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The 377s are simply dirty, uncomfortable (unless you get a connex spec unit) and when compared to a 450 - they don't come close.

I really don't think you can rant at a train's cleanliness, that's down to the operator. 377s never seemed that bad to me, believe me you have not seen dirty until you've seen some of the Pacers/Sprinters that Northern/LM operate (they need a very deep clean!). Although, the dirtiest award goes to Arriva Trains Wales 158s (prior to refurb) - absolutely fifthly!

 

[jay jay]

Although upright seating can be good for your posture (I've been laughed at on here for saying that, but it's true!) - the class 158s with original seating are very comfy - the ex-Transpennine 3-car units with Northern are lovely!
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I really don't think you can rant at a train's cleanliness, that's down to the operator. 377s never seemed that bad to me, believe me you have not seen dirty until you've seen some of the Pacers/Sprinters that Northern/LM operate (they need a very deep clean!). Although, the dirtiest award goes to Arriva Trains Wales 158s (prior to refurb) - absolutely fifthly!

Perhaps you are correct in as much that you can't criticise the train for being dirty itself but they clearly have not been built to last. Some 377s could do with a midlife refresh / refurb already. I agree - pacers and such like you mention are truly rotten and a disgrace. I am just comparing a 377 to something similar - and i believe they are inferior to many units of the same age in terms of both comfort and internal appearance / cleanliness through ware and tare in particular.

 

[futureA]

I really don't understand the contempt for pendolino's that I find on this forum. I find them perfectly ok and they are probably the train I enjoy travelling on the most. The saloon is quiet the ride is smooth and I find the horizon moving up and down as the train tilts rather exciting

The worst train for me are the pacers, they are horrible to travel on. Noisy, drafty and uncomfortable and I hope they are replaced pronto.

 

[WestCoast]

Perhaps you are correct in as much that you can't criticise the train for being dirty itself but they clearly have not been built to last. Some 377s could do with a midlife refresh / refurb already. I agree - pacers and such like you mention are truly rotten and a disgrace. I am just comparing a 377 to something similar - and i believe they are inferior to many units of the same age in terms of both comfort and internal appearance / cleanliness through ware and tare in particular.

I am glad you can see my point about cleanliness. FGW seem to treat their Sprinter/Pacer fleet better though - much of their stock has had a freshen up.

As for Electrostars vs. Desiros - hmmm, I don't have a strong feeling. Southern region EMUs aren't my strong point. Are we talking about the green seated 377s (Southern spec?) that operate with Southern and FCC?

They are 2-2 vs the 450s 3-2. I think many would prefer the 377 in that case, even if the green interior is seemingly "poor quality". Of course, the 444 is a different case.

I do remember the big news thing about 3-2 seating on the 450s and how hated they were.:roll:

 

[Bittern]

I took a CrossCountry Voayger from Motherwell - Haymarket a few weeks ago. I absolutely loved it.

For the worst I've experienced, it's tough. Probably the 314s because of their low-back seats which are quite uncomfortable. However, my pool of trains are very limited having only experienced all of which that run in Scotland, yet nothing that only runs outside of Scotland.

 

[Daimler]

I am glad you can see my point about cleanliness. FGW seem to treat their Sprinter/Pacer fleet better though - much of their stock has had a freshen up.

As for Electrostars vs. Desiros - hmmm, I don't have a strong feeling. Southern region EMUs aren't my strong point. Are we talking about the green seated 377s (Southern spec?) that operate with Southern and FCC?

They are 2-2 vs the 450s 3-2. I think many would prefer the 377 in that case, even if the green interior is seemingly "poor quality". Of course, the 444 is a different case.

I do remember the big news thing about 3-2 seating on the 450s and how hated they were.:roll:

Only in the outer carriages - the middle two carriages have 3+2 seating which, to my mind, is more uncomfortable than that of the 450s/350s. That may, however, be thanks to Southern's 'astroturf' moquette.

 

[WestCoast]

I took a CrossCountry Voayger from Motherwell - Haymarket a few weeks ago. I absolutely loved it.

That's a 50 minutes journey where getting a seat is likely. And even if you don't, you can't complain at £1.30 (XC Only) single :roll:. I regularly take (Super)Voyagers on short distances and they are not bad for that, but the toilet smell seems to be getting worse in the vestibules! My dislike of Voyagers spawned from standing in a hot, cramped vestibule with a distinct stench of sewage in the air.

Only in the outer carriages - the middle two carriages have 3+2 seating which, to my mind, is more uncomfortable than that of the 450s/350s. That may, however, be thanks to Southern's 'astroturf' moquette.

Oh yes, as said Southern region EMUs aren't exactly my specialty. The middle coaches are indeed 3-2, and no the seating isn't great either, probably worse than Desiro standard (which many people harp on about being "cheap"). However, the older Connex specified units seem to be more comfortable with the dark grey seats.

 

[jay jay]

Only in the outer carriages - the middle two carriages have 3+2 seating which, to my mind, is more uncomfortable than that of the 450s/350s. That may, however, be thanks to Southern's 'astroturf' moquette.

Comfort wise, the 377/1 or 377/3 (connex spec seating) which are 2+2 throughout are nicer than a 450. However they are showing some serious ware and tare inside now. Many seats are ripped and being replaced with some green AstroTurf style seat covers in some cases. The floors and carpets look filthy and the interior paintwork in the doorways and in the disabled toilet areas is chipping off. The toilets on a 450 are also much better than a 377 in my opinion. The all round train environment on a 450 is much better.
I would be interested to know which trains are older - the 377s or 450s?

 

[thefab444]

It's not quite as simple as subclasses either. As far as I know, although I could very well be wrong:

377/4s and 377/5s are all mostly 2+2 in the driving coaches with the rest being 3+2.
377/3s and the lower numbered 377/1s are 2+2 throughout (these have Connex spec interiors).
The remaining 377/1s are a complete mixture.
Not too sure about the 377/2s.

Essentially, I count the units which are 2+2 (early /1s and /3s) throughout as equivalent to a 444, and the rest as equivalent to a 450.

A lot of the 377s are starting to show signs of wear and tear now, but it's nothing compared to some trains, particularly ATW 158s! SWT's Desiro fleet is definately more well cared for and this is despite them cutting the deep cleaning of trains from monthly to yearly.

 

[GospelOak117]

I wouldn't want to be wearing an expensive suit sitting on one of those Southern green sandpaper seats

 

[Bittern]

That's a 50 minutes journey where getting a seat is likely. And even if you don't, you can't complain at £1.30 (XC Only) single :roll:. I regularly take (Super)Voyagers on short distances and they are not bad for that, but the toilet smell seems to be getting worse in the vestibules! My dislike of Voyagers spawned from standing in a hot, cramped vestibule with a distinct stench of sewage in the air.

First of all, 50 mins is long enough to decide whether I like the train or not. I do like it, and would happily take a longer journey on it if the need arises, but I never have to.

Secondly, I was going to Linlithgow for the BKR so I paid £14 average for the return and a PlusBus.

 

[WestCoast]

I would argue that 50 minutes on one single journey isn't enough to have a balanced opinion. However, you are of course fully entitled to it. That's just my view on the matter. When you travel on one that is busy for hours or almost every week you may change your mind. I liked voyagers at first and I still quite like meridians, but due to my experiences I have a poor view of them.

 

[Bittern]

I don't like packed trains full stop. For this reason I tend to avoid peak times when I can.

 

[phillipsalan09]

As a regular commuter betwee stoke and stafford I use voyagers a lot and I have repeatedly been shut between the coridoor doors because they shut automatically without any audible warning (sure this must be against some sort of eec directive somwhere lol) forced to stand even though I pay a ridiculous amount given the short distance and sniff the smell of sewage from the lav! They are a night mare I have little experience of virgin but XC are ridiculous! I therefore vote voyagers as the worst rolling stock on uk rails today

 

[144jm]

I took a CrossCountry Voayger from Motherwell - Haymarket a few weeks ago. I absolutely loved it.

For the worst I've experienced, it's tough. Probably the 314s because of their low-back seats which are quite uncomfortable. However, my pool of trains are very limited having only experienced all of which that run in Scotland, yet nothing that only runs outside of Scotland.

I'm a regular commuter on the 314s on the Neilston line, and I actually don't mind them at all. I've had no issue with the seats, but then again it's only a 20-minute journey, although on a long journey, they would become less than pleasant. They're acceleration is pretty good too for an older train.

Like you, I have only experienced trains in Scotland, and to be honest, there aren't any that I'd really have many complaints about. I also travelled on a 390 to Euston a couple of days ago, and I ended up in the windowless seat on Coach C going, and the seat became pretty uncomfortable on the return leg, my backside was aching! The train itself, I would have no complaints.

 

[DJ_K666]

Ditto.

========================
Errr, that was a pretty meaningless post, so:

Being firmly in Bombardier territory, I'm always a little suspicious of Desiro's, particularly the odd noise they make when starting up. I'm sure you get used to it, but Electrostars sound nicer, certainly.

========================

Hmmmm... No, no better...

It sounds like a Halloween toy when they start up...

 

[318259]

EMUs are more difficult, but maybe the Class 318s for poor ride quality.

The 318s are great. Try were built for the Glasgow - Ayr line and trey handle that far better than the 334s.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

318s are absolutely brilliant trains, far better than 334s, and many other suburban EMUs

 

[387star]

I love 334s never travelled on a 318.

Why is it older trains have better ride quality though?

 

[MCR247]

Very general do you not think?

 

[LE Greys]

I love 334s never travelled on a 318.

Why is it older trains have better ride quality though?

Best riding stock I've been on in Britain was a Eurostar when they ran to York. Just about as smooth as you can get. Worst wasn't a Pacer, it was the 4-wheel coach that ran behind Rocket. A Gresley coach on the NNR had a bit of a weird vibration, but was about the same quality as a Voyager at 25 mph. Best other than the Eurostar would be either a well-maintained MkIII (with no wheelflats) or a Pendolino on a good day.

All-in-all, I think it works out just about even.

 

[387star]

Very general do you not think?

Perhaps but I'm going by what people are saying on here and I think there is a point to be made. I know for a fact 158s offer a superior ride to 377s

 

[ainsworth74]

But it isn't true of all trains. A Mk4 gives a better ride than a Mk3 and a 333 gives a better ride than a 321.

 

[MCR247]

A 390 gives a better ride than a 142.

Nuff said