dk1
Veteran Member
GSMR has helped a bit as you can advise the signaller quick rather than stopping & using the SPT (non CRS areas) so hopefully the route can be taken back & changed with little or no delay & nobody needs to know.
GSMR has helped a bit as you can advise the signaller quick rather than stopping & using the SPT (non CRS areas) so hopefully the route can be taken back & changed with little or no delay & nobody needs to know.
If you aren't able to stop and use the SPT then presumably you've passed the signal and a wrong direction move will be needed.
Either way, with recording of signaller acctions and GSMR conversations I think the days of "nobody needs to know" are long gone.
If you aren't able to stop and use the SPT then presumably you've passed the signal and a wrong direction move will be needed. Either way, with recording of signaller acctions and GSMR conversations I think the days of "nobody needs to know" are long gone.
There is a story linked to on the London Reconnections blog that a Metropolitan line signaller made an error that was compounded by a BR driver who wasnt that sure of the route
The result was the Master Cutler - an ER Pacific and a full rake of Pullmans - taking a left at Croxley Hall, going thru Croxley and arriving at Watford Metropolitan with a pretty abrupt stop.
....and having to be reversed wrong-line to Rickmansworth as though Watford had adequate run-round, nobody would have thanked LU for sending a pacific into Marylebone facing the wrong way round
Wow! That's an amazing story. Was there anything in any railway periodicals at the time I wonder?
I'm not convinced - it's not a safety of the line issue (possibly excepting cases where the train in question was barred from the route in question, pulling off for an electric train into an isolated section etc.) so if there's no delay to explain, there's not much to report!
I'm sure wrong routes were and possibly still are taken without being reported under absolute block signalling and manual train reporting.
Agreed, I was trying to highlight the difference with manually signalled sections which are not monitored by systems like CCF, and TRUST reporting is done manually. It must therefore easier for driver and signaller to come to an "agreement". I agree about OTMR, but presumably even this isn't downloaded without reason?Depends what you mean by 'taken'. You would be very stupid as a driver not to report it if you have to run the train back over the points. An OTMR download would pick up on it.
If the driver's taken the wrong route, I doubt the resulting delay would go unnoticed (unless the train was very early with nothing following!) and uninvestigated, by the time arrangements have been made to shove back outside the junction signal...even with the most creative TRUST reporting!Agreed, I was trying to highlight the difference with manually signalled sections which are not monitored by systems like CCF, and TRUST reporting is done manually. It must therefore easier for driver and signaller to come to an "agreement". I agree about OTMR, but presumably even this isn't downloaded without reason?
If the driver's taken the wrong route, I doubt the resulting delay would go unnoticed (unless the train was very early with nothing following!) and uninvestigated, by the time arrangements have been made to shove back outside the junction signal...even with the most creative TRUST reporting!
A driver with an excellent route knowledge would never take a wrong route in the first instance. You should know your signal patterns like the back of your hand and your driving should always reflect that.
It is 'too late' in the context of a wrong has been accepted. You can't undo taking a wrong route....
Setting back and continuing the correct path is a different matter.
A driver with an excellent route knowledge would never take a wrong route in the first instance.
A driver with an excellent route knowledge would never take a wrong route in the first instance. You should know your signal patterns like the back of your hand and your driving should always reflect that.
Except perhaps where the aspect sequences are exactly the same on the approach to a junction signal regardless of the route set in advance.
A driver with an excellent route knowledge would never take a wrong route in the first instance. You should know your signal patterns like the back of your hand and your driving should always reflect that.
I see what you're saying (obviously excepting those where there's free greens towards both routes), but I'm sure (at least I hope) those who have taken a wrong route knew their routes to a similar standard, and that other factors were involved! Just out of interest, I understand that a lot of drivers are taught nowadays that there's no such thing as an approach-controlled signal - does that ever lead to drivers, booked over the diverging route, taking a green where they should be expecting restrictive aspects and ultimately taking the wrong route at the junction signal?A driver with an excellent route knowledge would never take a wrong route in the first instance. You should know your signal patterns like the back of your hand and your driving should always reflect that.
Entirely correct, drivers (like the rest of us) are only human. Doesn't mean that the incident won't be investigated though, and of course the delay needs to be attributed correctly!But surely no one is perfect and people make mistakes. I'm dyslexic so I know that no matter how hard you try, it's difficult to be correct every time. Of course I'm not working as a train driver.
I know of at least one case where a driver stopped to challenge a wrong route, waited for it to be taken back and the route to time out...then got back down on the phone when the signal came off for a different, but still wrong, route .I think I must hold some sort of record where wrong routing is concerned. I have managed to be given the wrong route at the same signal two days running, but in different directions!
Norton Bridge on the down. First day heading to Manchester given Crewe. Second day heading to Preston given Stone. Needless to say I accepted neither!
Surely little excuse for taking a wrong route at those then?!Exactly, I can think of routes where signals are approach controlled regardless of route set!!