Wrongly Assumed Facts by Passengers

[strawbrick]

At least some TOCs will compensate down to Standard fare if you have a 1st ticket and no 1st seat, I believe. That's as much of a guarantee as you can provide without compulsory reservations.

Indeed, that facility has always been available on the NSE / Silverlink / London Midland and now London Northwestern services out of Euston, if the Guard / Conductor makes an announcement on the lines of "Ladies and Gentlemen,as the train is very crowded I have declassified 1st Class so that is available to holders of Standard Class tickets".
Unfortunately, even if the train is jam packed, the announcement is very, and I do mean very, rarely made. Indeed the best excuse I have been given for not making is was "The train was so over-crowded that I could not get through to check ...". This despite that for many years the Guards have been able to open and close doors and give the go signal from most if not all carriages, not just the rear cab.
The announcement that is never heard is "In view of the declassification, holders of 1st class tickets may apply for a refund."
Even if they do de-classify and you apply for a refund you may be told, sorry but they have no record of the de-classification so no refund.
I have the tee-shirts.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The only time I've ever been on a 1st class ticket and it's been declassified, the guard walked through 1st before making that announcement to endorse each passenger's ticket for refunds. This was on TPE travelling from Liverpool to Dewsbury (declassification took place on the approach to Oxford Road as the guard had been informed about the large crowd waiting there). I never actually bothered applying for said refund as my 1st advance only cost £6 in the first place.

 

[Altfish]

I half understand the latter but when passengers understand the platforms may change en-route, it's easy to see why things aren't always as easy as they want.

As most on here will know if you go on Realtime Trains or similar websites it will tell you which platform trains are expected to depart/arrive at. So it is not unreasonable for a customer to ask en-route which platform his connection will be at. Yes it MAY change but it is still a reasonable request. One which I have made on numerous occasions and been given good advice.

 

[Ianigsy]

The only time I've ever been on a 1st class ticket and it's been declassified, the guard walked through 1st before making that announcement to endorse each passenger's ticket for refunds. This was on TPE travelling from Liverpool to Dewsbury (declassification took place on the approach to Oxford Road as the guard had been informed about the large crowd waiting there). I never actually bothered applying for said refund as my 1st advance only cost £6 in the first place.

A similar thing happened a few years ago when I was returning from Liverpool to Leeds between Christmas and New Year. Northern were striking in a dispute over the substitute Bank Holidays and EMT weren't running Liverpool-Sheffield so the hourly (at the time) TPE was the only service between Liverpool and Manchester. All first class on TPE west of Manchester was therefore declassified and refunds offered.

 

[MP33]

I have a claim outstanding with Greater Anglia that my train arrived short formed and with the carriage containing 1st class locked out for some reason. I requested that the difference is refunded as the advertised facilities were not provided and it would be impossible to get to the other set of carriages in time and then push through 4 coaches of standing passengers. Also their website did not advise any problem and if that had been the case I would have got an earlier service. As mentioned earlier I am sure that these grounds are not generally known.

I believe that there also used to be rare instances when a class 321 was replaced by a 315.

As for wrongly assumed facts I am sure that some passengers believe that holding a 1st class ticket means that you cannot sit in standard if for instance you meet someone you know.

 

[Chris M]

That platform 9a is part of platform 9. Or that platform 9a is not part of platform 9. Or, maybe 9a is part of 9, but 9c isn't? I don't know. What's that expression again, "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."

We really could do with a consistent approach to that, ideally not to use a/b/c etc if it's a separate platform, so they can be used Swiss style (ideally A-F) to delimit platform zones. Or if we do want to use them for that, *not* to use them to delimit long platforms and to use something else like north/south/east/west or similar.

Great Western (the first privatised operator with that name) tried this with the different coloured zones on the platform - gold zone, blue zone, etc. I'm not sure when or why that ceased being used as it seemed (to me as a mere passenger) a rather good idea.

Platform numbers are not consistent at all across the network - at Bristol Temple Meads platforms 3 and 4 are different ends of the same platform face. At Birmingham New Street platforms 4a and 4b are different ends of platform 4 (but 4c is a different face, but part of the same island). At Stratford (probably the least logically numbered station in the country) platforms 10a and 11 are opposite sides of the same island while platform 10 is on a different island, platforms 4a and 4b are opposite sides of the same island (not located between 3 and 5) and platforms 3 and 3a are opposite sides of the same train.

And don't get me started on how "how many platforms does this station have?" is not a simple question!

 

[atillathehunn]

I find it strange that some passengers:

• Expect to have the platform of their train printed on their ticket.
  
• Ask what platform a train will depart from at an interchange station somewhere on their route, and expect it to stick to that platform.

There are way more but these are the only two I can think of right now.

I don't understand why some passengers think a platform will be printed on the ticket. My airline ticket doesn't always have the gate printed on it. That's the only connection I can think.

I half understand the latter but when passengers understand the platforms may change en-route, it's easy to see why things aren't always as easy as they want.

Any more?

The platform printed on the ticket isn't an outrageous suggestion.

While it's not printed on the ticket here, the very commonly used public transport app 9292, and the NS app will tell you the planned arrival platform, whether it's a same platform or cross platform (or other) connection, and which side the doors will open.

I know platform alterations happen and things don't go to plan, but with good communication - which there so often is - from the conductor, this can be mitigated. If there is some delay or alteration the guard will do the main connection platforms and announce the arrival platform with which side the doors will open.

This is good customer service. While one poster said the Germans 'have more platforms', there is still a WTT in this country with a planned platform on it. Why not make it public? The airline ticket doesn't have a gate number, but the boarding pass does (the actual equivalent of a train ticket), and it is always brought to your attention that the gate is subject to change, either in person or on the app. Thence in the airport, the screens, tannoys and the airline app will alert you to gate changes. Good, clear and concise communication can make journeys more pleasant. I don't see why this is silly at all.

 

[RPM]

That drivers control the heating/aircon for the entire train from the cab.

 

[Darandio]

That drivers control the heating/aircon for the entire train from the cab.

Indeed, but that is one that I wouldn't deem it unreasonable for a passenger to assume.

 

[4069]

You do not need a ticket for the full length of your journey before starting and you can blag the last bit on the branch line, bonus if the guard doesn't get to you.

You can only buy a ticket for the train you are on.

As a nervous teenager in 1974, I had to travel from London to Wymondham.

The ticket office at Liverpool Street would not sell me a through ticket, telling me to re-book at Norwich.

Scared of missing my connection, but more terrified of being caught ticketless, I sprinted to the window on arrival at Norwich. When I got to the front of the queue, I was abruptly told (must have been very abrupt indeed if it still sticks in my head 44 years later) "Wymondham? Pay on the train".

And so I learned about Paytrains.

I haven't made that particular journey since. Has anything changed?

 

[tsr]

Indeed the best excuse I have been given for not making is was "The train was so over-crowded that I could not get through to check ...". This despite that for many years the Guards have been able to open and close doors and give the go signal from most if not all carriages, not just the rear cab.

If the train is that overcrowded, obviously the guard will not necessarily be able to get through the aisles of the train to different door panels. That’s aside from the fact that guards on LNR are only able to release the doors and dispatch the train from towards the middle of the longer formations, as a matter of company policy, and may also need to remain in only a handful of positions if deemed necessary from a point of view of required dispatch positions (mandated at certain stations to gain a full view of the platform due to curvature).

You’re also ignoring the rather important fact that for “many years” older trains have been running around the network in an unimproved state, whereby in fact they don’t necessarily have door controls anywhere other than the rear cab. This especially applies to stock which was designed decades ago, in the days when a guard’s job had little to do with customer service.

All that being said, none of this is an excuse for staff seeing that the train is extremely busy and not trying to make life more comfortable. Sometimes it can simply be best to wait until First Class passengers have boarded and taken their seats, and then announce that First is declassified and Standard passengers can make use of space available. On busy suburban commuter routes, where First Class is usually (though not always) simply an expensive seat reservation system, this means that First Class passengers can often get the benefit of having that type of ticket and also a refund, whilst everyone else’s complaints are reduced when they can take up any free space.

That drivers control the heating/aircon for the entire train from the cab.

Indeed, but that is one that I wouldn't deem it unreasonable for a passenger to assume.

They do control it from the cabs on some stock... or at least can tell what’s wrong, and can potentially diagnose and announce the cause of the problem. Southeastern drivers are particularly good at doing this, even if they may not explicitly have control of the system on all the stock they work - I have known a number of their drivers to report heating and ventilation faults to Fleet controllers via the GSM-R, sometimes before the train has even left the origin station.

 

[Airline Man]

Your boarding pass will though.

I work for BA, although Gate numbers are known in advance, they do change but the BAA doesn't like us publishing gate numbers early as they'd rather have passengers in the terminal shopping rather than sitting down at the gate not spending any money.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

That the guard will drive later.

I kid you not when TPE used 158's on their services someone actually said that 'he'll drive later' to their partner.

 

[Master29]

That inter city 125`s are supposed to do precisely that speed all the time. At least that`s what I heard someone once say.

 

[Dryce]

Just providing a departure time isn't really an acceptable answer though... Different companies have different definitions of "peak" so it's not always as obvious as it seems!

And rules may vary according to route with the same operator.

 

[Tom B]

That the guard will drive later.

I kid you not when TPE used 158's on their services someone actually said that 'he'll drive later' to their partner.

It's the norm on some light rail systems eg Sheffield Supertram - presumably the passenger knew of this and assumed the same happened on heavy rail services.

 

[pompeyfan]

That the guard will drive later.

I kid you not when TPE used 158's on their services someone actually said that 'he'll drive later' to their partner.

There are often stories from old hands what really used to go on on the railways. A liquid lunch/dinner for the driver in a Railway social club followed by a snooze meant the guard got a play with the controls for an hour or so.

Obviously these days it’s a very very different culture, guards aren’t even allowed in the cab now unless it’s the strictest of circumstances, let alone having a boozy driver at the controls.

 

[swaldman]

That the question "can I use my off peak ticket on this train" can be answered with providing no further details other than the train's departure time.

That there's any way to know, when standing at a ticket machine, when an off-peak ticket is valid...

[re Any Permitted] whilst chortling expertly to ourselves surely these are not unrealistic expectations for people unfamiliar with the railway system

Yeah - "Off peak" and "Any permitted route" are both mysteries unfathomable by most mortals. So far as I can tell the true meaning of Any Permitted Route is "get on the train, and if the guard says it's not valid, pay hundreds of pounds and then complain through Passenger Focus to get it back because there is no realistic way for you to know what is and isn't permitted".

(referring to a thousand-page book while standing at the ticket machine is not realistic)

 

[fowler9]

After asking what time the next service to a particular place is, and being told the answer, saying "Isn't there one before that?" will reveal some secret extra service that they weren't meant to know about.

Ha ha, I love that one, I get it in the area I work in as well. "Can my repair not be done sooner?" "Yes it can but I am keeping it a secret because I really want an argument, it makes my day go better".

 

[Dr Hoo]

Passengers trusting Real Time Trains can be interesting. At Sheffield the Hope Valley locals run out of the south end of the station (usually but by no means always from bay platform 2c).

Real Time Trains does not recognise 2c and confusingly substitutes 4, which is a north facing bay. Even though the passenger information screens and announcements have repeatedly advised about 2c some pax will miss their train whilst standing next to 4 on the basis of RTT 'facts'.

Never mind, it is only a two-hour wait for the next one, also shown on RTT as platform 4, of course.

 

[Minilad]

Passengers trusting Real Time Trains can be interesting. At Sheffield the Hope Valley locals run out of the south end of the station (usually but by no means always from bay platform 2c).

Real Time Trains does not recognise 2c and confusingly substitutes 4, which is a north facing bay. Even though the passenger information screens and announcements have repeatedly advised about 2c some pax will miss their train whilst standing next to 4 on the basis of RTT 'facts'.

Never mind, it is only a two-hour wait for the next one, also shown on RTT as platform 4, of course.

You would be surprised, or maybe not, at the amount of people that will argue black is white when told something that doesn't tally with what they have read on their phone

 

[PeterC]

Over what is now a full and fairly long life one thing I can guarantee is that a customer will go round asking the same question of multiple people in the hope that somehow the answer will change. They are probably the same ones who stand and stare at a printed notice about a delay in case it magically changes.

When working at a sell out gig I once heard a bouncer come up with the classic "which part of the word full don't you understand sir?". Sadly print doesn't reflect the tone of the word "sir", rather like Jeeves telling Bertie Wooster that his tie is the wrong colour or a Sergeant Major putting a Sandhurst cadet in his place.

 

[swaldman]

Over what is now a full and fairly long life one thing I can guarantee is that a customer will go round asking the same question of multiple people in the hope that somehow the answer will change.

To be fair, as noted elsewhere on this thread, sometimes the first person you ask clearly doesn't have a clue and is obviously making up an answer...

 

[Ianno87]

You would be surprised, or maybe not, at the amount of people that will argue black is white when told something that doesn't tally with what they have read on their phone

I have to insist to my father-in-law that my train went over the Hitchin flyover (based on me looking out the window) when RTT puts 'DC' on everything.

 

[CarltonA]

That someone already on a train will know all the calling points even if they were planning to alight at a nearer station.

 

[Gareth Marston]

You would be surprised, or maybe not, at the amount of people that will argue black is white when told something that doesn't tally with what they have read on their phone

Definitely not - according to "the Internet" a lady wanted to know which one of the two trains departing Newtown simultaneously @ 1441 Was the one that got to Birmingham New St quicker......had she read properly she would of course known that the 1441 connects with a VT service at Shrewsbury and then follows it to New St. Despite being told she still ran up to the Conductor when the 1441 arrived and asked if it was the quicker one.

 

[anti-pacer]

That "leaves on the line" is actually not an excuse but a real problem.

 

[158756]

That someone already on a train will know all the calling points even if they were planning to alight at a nearer station.

This happened to me on a bus last week. Fortunately they only wanted to know whether the bus saying 'City Centre' on the front was going to the City Centre!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Great Western (the first privatised operator with that name) tried this with the different coloured zones on the platform - gold zone, blue zone, etc. I'm not sure when or why that ceased being used as it seemed (to me as a mere passenger) a rather good idea.

Platform numbers are not consistent at all across the network - at Bristol Temple Meads platforms 3 and 4 are different ends of the same platform face. At Birmingham New Street platforms 4a and 4b are different ends of platform 4 (but 4c is a different face, but part of the same island). At Stratford (probably the least logically numbered station in the country) platforms 10a and 11 are opposite sides of the same island while platform 10 is on a different island, platforms 4a and 4b are opposite sides of the same island (not located between 3 and 5) and platforms 3 and 3a are opposite sides of the same train.

And don't get me started on how "how many platforms does this station have?" is not a simple question!

GW didn't invent the coloured zones I'm afraid, I think they were the brainchild of an Intercity manager. They appeared at Wakefield Westgate during the "shadow franchise" era, along with several other locations a long way from the South-west.

However, other than the signs being placed, I personally can't recall any announcements or posters ever making reference to the various coloured zones... at all! So I'd always assumed that the idea was pretty much dead from the beginning.

 

[thelongestroad]

That having a ticket from A to B means you can use it via E because it has "Any Permitted" on it. Had that argument with someone that thought he could use his Carlisle to London ticket via Cheltenham and Stroud because it says he can take any route..

(Although I agree that "Any Permitted" is a bit ambiguous and I wish they'd change it).