WSMR - How fast can they run through Wolves and New St?

[TheWalrus]

Hi guys

The question is the title basically, hope you can help again!

Thanks

Ryan

 

[matt]

Not sure about Wolverhampton but the speed limit is 10mph through New Street

 

[The Planner]

10mph through New St, 15mph through Wolves just like everything else.

 

[Proud Salopian]

How many WSMR trains are actually routed through New St though?? :???:

 

[Old Timer]

None are booked that way, although on Wednesday last week the early morning service crept through platform 1 just before 07 30.

 

[TheWalrus]

How many WSMR trains are actually routed through New St though?? :???:[/QUOTE
Not many I dont think, but is the quickest route via Solihull then New St. and Smethwick, avoiding Tame Bridge? Either way they still pass through Wolves.

 

[Proud Salopian]

They all pass through Wolverhampton, but as Old Timer has said they don't run through Birmingham New Street usually, instead they crawl around "the back" of Birmingham, which we Salopians approve of as it means avoiding the horrors of New Street altogether! :P

 

[TheWalrus]

They all pass through Wolverhampton, but as Old Timer has said they don't run through Birmingham New Street usually, instead they crawl around "the back" of Birmingham, which we Salopians approve of as it means avoiding the horrors of New Street altogether! :P[/QUOTE
so am I right in that being the quickest if they went through New St and not Tame Bridge? or quicker to avoid New St and go via Tame Bridge?

 

[Old Timer]

Wolves Crane St Jct/Portobello Jct, and thence via the Grand Jct to Stechford is a far quicker route than going via New St

 

[TheWalrus]

Wolves Crane St Jct/Portobello Jct, and thence via the Grand Jct to Stechford is a far quicker route than going via New St

Isnt it quicker to go via Solihull instead of stechford?

 

[Old Timer]

Not necessarily, as you have to pass through New St then cross towards the Derby lines to gain Grand Jct and St Andrews Jct, and Bordesley Jct. With a 10 minute frequency Cross City service the best route would be to arrive at New St on the Midland side from Monument Lane but then this will of course shut down half the station, especailly as there is little from the Midland side going north these days.

You are then speed restricted from Bordesley (GW) to Small Heath South Jct and have to fit in between the various semi-fast and all stations, plus the various freight services.

At least on the Grand you can run at 70 and 100 on the Stours to Coventry.

 

[150219]

None are booked that way, although on Wednesday last week the early morning service crept through platform 1 just before 07 30.

1P01 0510 Wrexham-Marylebone is booked to run from Perry Barr to New Street via Soho, running through New Street at 0700.

1J82 1120 Marylebone-Wrexham is booked to run from New Street to Perry Barr via Soho, with a slight dwell time at New Street between 1323 and 1327.

 

[The Planner]

Aston to Stechford is where it all goes to pot though, you only get 30 & 45 down there and the chances of a clean run out on to the Stours is remote. It is easier to get one out at Small Heath and down that way, but as already said, you have to get them through New St first.

 

[TheWalrus]

But I thought you could cross from the aston line to the Coventry line avoiding new st?

 

[150219]

But I thought you could cross from the aston line to the Coventry line avoiding new st?

Yes, that's right.

Aston-Stechford-Birmingham International, via the Grand Junction lines.

 

[TheWalrus]

Yes, that's right.

Aston-Stechford-Birmingham International, via the Grand Junction lines.[/QUOTE
So could you cross from Aston line to Solihull line? And if so would this still be slower than via Aston and Coventry?

 

[The Planner]

There appears to be a bit of confusion here, WSMR can avoid New St via going Wolves, Portobello, Darleston, Bescot, Perry Barr, Aston, Stechford and on to Coventry. If they need to go via Solihull, they have to go via New St, Proof House, St Andrews, Bordesley, Small Heath Jn and Tyseley. You cant combine the two (unless you went via Walsall and Sutton Park, but that would be a tad pointless.)

 

[merlodlliw]

There appears to be a bit of confusion here, WSMR can avoid New St via going Wolves, Portobello, Darleston, Bescot, Perry Barr, Aston, Stechford and on to Coventry. If they need to go via Solihull, they have to go via New St, Proof House, St Andrews, Bordesley, Small Heath Jn and Tyseley. You cant combine the two (unless you went via Walsall and Sutton Park, but that would be a tad pointless.)

Chapter & Verse Planner, well done, If I get lost on ATW , ill phone you.

M

 

[TDK]

Wolves Crane St Jct/Portobello Jct, and thence via the Grand Jct to Stechford is a far quicker route than going via New St

In fact the quickest way is Wolves, New Street on the up stour, proof house, Stechford, International, Cov etc. This only happens when Tame Bridge is missed out, if you go through Portobello, the Perry Barr, Soho, New Street, Proof House, Stechford and get a good run through New Street there isn't a lot in it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

None are booked that way, although on Wednesday last week the early morning service crept through platform 1 just before 07 30.

Some weekend trains are booked throug New Street and the 11.20 off Marylebone is booked through New Street, they go via Solihull, the 05.10 Wrexham to London is also booked through New Street on a daily basis, so, yes some trains are booked through New Street

 

[Old Timer]

In fact the quickest way is Wolves, New Street on the up stour, proof house, Stechford, International, Cov etc. This only happens when Tame Bridge is missed out, if you go through Portobello, the Perry Barr, Soho, New Street, Proof House, Stechford and get a good run through New Street there isn't a lot in it.

Sorry but I disagree, having worked New St PSB.

There is no way it is quicker coming Up the Soho Road as against running Up via the Grand Jct.

Some weekend trains are booked throug New Street and the 11.20 off Marylebone is booked through New Street, they go via Solihull, the 05.10 Wrexham to London is also booked through New Street on a daily basis, so, yes some trains are booked through New Street

Yes, my error I picked up the wrong version of the book.

 

[TDK]

Sorry but I disagree, having worked New St PSB.

There is no way it is quicker coming Up the Soho Road as against running Up via the Grand Jct.


Yes, my error I picked up the wrong version of the book.

We can agree or disagree, I didn't say it was quicker up the soho line, I said not a lot in it, I drive them every day and when diverted due to problems I can get to Leamington with a good run as quoted 2 or 3 minutes down even if going via Solihul, we are talking WSMR paths here and when we arrive at Stechford there is a 4 minute signalling wait for a VT that we follow until it clears Coventry. With clear signals, we would arrive at Leamington at least 7 early, so, yes it is quicker if you have the path but not that much regarding the WSMR path. I was diverted only the day before yesterday due to a points problem at Portobello and reached Leamington on time, this included folling a VT from Birmingham, I was routed up the Stour, through New Street, then Stechford, passed Stechford on time and 2 minutes early at Coventry.

 

[Old Timer]

We can agree or disagree, I didn't say it was quicker up the soho line, I said not a lot in it, I drive them every day and when diverted due to problems I can get to Leamington with a good run as quoted 2 or 3 minutes down even if going via Solihul, we are talking WSMR paths here and when we arrive at Stechford there is a 4 minute signalling wait for a VT that we follow until it clears Coventry. With clear signals, we would arrive at Leamington at least 7 early, so, yes it is quicker if you have the path but not that much regarding the WSMR path. I was diverted only the day before yesterday due to a points problem at Portobello and reached Leamington on time, this included folling a VT from Birmingham, I was routed up the Stour, through New Street, then Stechford, passed Stechford on time and 2 minutes early at Coventry.

Thank you for the update.

Is the routing via New St to keep route knowledge ?

 

[The Planner]

Only paths they could get when they originally started up from what I recall, but useful as a route retainer. Any long distance train will arrive at various points on its journey early if there are no TSRs as the allowance is built into the schedule.

 

[Old Timer]

Only paths they could get when they originally started up from what I recall, but useful as a route retainer. Any long distance train will arrive at various points on its journey early if there are no TSRs as the allowance is built into the schedule.

I thought they were always booked via the Grand Jct as per their access agreement ?

 

[Geezertronic]

Just a quick one slightly off topic - what is the line speed on the Stetchford/Aston line?

 

[The Planner]

I thought they were always booked via the Grand Jct as per their access agreement ?

Nope, Im pretty sure the paths that go Soho - New St are virtually un-altered from when they started up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just a quick one slightly off topic - what is the line speed on the Stetchford/Aston line?

20 over the junction at Aston, a bit of 30, then 45, then 30 at Stechford on the up. 20 over the junction at Stechford, 45 then a bit of 30 and 20 over the junction at Aston on the down.

 

[Skip 10]

I thought they were always booked via the Grand Jct as per their access agreement ?

Access agreement has alwys included New Street-Soho and New Street-Cov and the Grand junction. It was just not picking up or setting down at New Street that was never in the agreement.

 

[TDK]

Thank you for the update.

Is the routing via New St to keep route knowledge ?

Via New Street is LTP so not for route knowledge purposes.