XC HST Split - Lawrence Hill (Bristol) - 31/10/16

[43096]

On an HST, a train division would split the brake pipe, venting the air out to atmosphere causing an immediate full brake application on both portions.

It would also probably break the multiple-control jumper cable, which would:
a) cause the rear power car to stop providing traction power, and
b) initiate an emergency brake application as the E70 (or DW2) brake control unit in the rear power would have lost its signal from the leading power car.

 

[PHILIPE]

08822, the SPM Shunter, hauled the rear part from Temple Meads to PM Depot.
The front Power Car recessed in the Reception at Bristol Parkway no doubt to move to PM.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On an HST, a train division would split the brake pipe, venting the air out to atmosphere causing an immediate full brake application on both portions.

Would the rear power engine throttle back to idle speed automatically?

 

[AndrewE]

It seems that the answer is either (or both) then! Thanks for that.

Just hope that something electrical or mechanical parts before someone approaches the gap - and that they aren't stepping forward into it when the brakes go on.

 

[IKB]

The Instagram picture on the previous page show the leading bogie of the Mk3 carriage. It looks freshly serviced/refurbed, which perhaps suggests the set hasn't been coupled together long. Will be interesting to find out if mechanical failure or coupled incorrectly. No doubt will all come out in the eventual RAIB report.

 

[PHILIPE]

I haven't investigated fully but there were XC Diversions via Bath,Swindon & The Golden Valley as a result

 

[Darbs]

Power car still in the Up Passenger Loop at Bristol parkway. Haven't heard any information on what to do with it!

 

[pdeaves]

Anyone care to link to these pictures?

Here's my picture of part of the rescue: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pdeaves/30657269586/in/dateposted/

 

[TheEdge]

Power car still in the Up Passenger Loop at Bristol parkway. Haven't heard any information on what to do with it!

I suppose there is a chance that the split may have done some damage to the pipes on the back of the power car so it'll be a bit more complex to get it shifted.

Are there XC facilities in Bristol? If not might GWR lend a helping hand to get it shifted?

 

[ainsworth74]

Here's my picture of part of the rescue: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pdeaves/30657269586/in/dateposted/

Nice one, thanks!

 

[43096]

The Instagram picture on the previous page show the leading bogie of the Mk3 carriage. It looks freshly serviced/refurbed, which perhaps suggests the set hasn't been coupled together long. Will be interesting to find out if mechanical failure or coupled incorrectly. No doubt will all come out in the eventual RSSB report.

Given that 08822 was able to couple to that vehicle and take the set to the Marsh, it suggests the fact that 41195 was just off C4 is not relevant. As I posted above, a national check of HST couplers is being done tonight, so clearly the cause is known.

Not sure why RSSB would do a report, either - would be RAIB, if they decide it is needed.

 

[TheEdge]

Wont the 08 have coupled up on the chain rather than the buckeye?

 

[Darbs]

I suppose there is a chance that the split may have done some damage to the pipes on the back of the power car so it'll be a bit more complex to get it shifted.

Are there XC facilities in Bristol? If not might GWR lend a helping hand to get it shifted?

There is Barton Hill Depot, where XC have some work done. I would have thought they would want it to go there or St. Phillips Marsh (GWR) asap. However its not easy as its facing the wrong way to be driven so will need hauling back to Bristol!

 

[pdeaves]

Wont the 08 have coupled up on the chain rather than the buckeye?

I believe (not 100% certain) it used the buckeye.

In response to your earlier question, GWR fitters went from St Philips Marsh depot to make all the parts movement-worthy (one travelled on the lone power car).

 

[IKB]

Given that 08822 was able to couple to that vehicle and take the set to the Marsh, it suggests the fact that 41195 was just off C4 is not relevant. As I posted above, a national check of HST couplers is being done tonight, so clearly the cause is known.

Not sure why RSSB would do a report, either - would be RAIB, if they decide it is needed.

All I was suggesting that if the bogie was serviced recently, the set was coupled recently, which might be pertinent...never mind.

And yes, RAIB not RSSB. Early turn fried brain.

 

[fgwrich]

There is Barton Hill Depot, where XC have some work done. I would have thought they would want it to go there or St. Phillips Marsh (GWR) asap. However its not easy as its facing the wrong way to be driven so will need hauling back to Bristol!

As it's a HST, St Phillips Marsh would be more than likely (better late than never, should have found one in May**) - I Don't think Barton Hill has done any work on any of the XC HST Fleet, rather it's used for Voyager servicing.

I believe (not 100% certain) it used the buckeye.

In response to your earlier question, GWR fitters went from St Philips Marsh depot to make all the parts movement-worthy (one travelled on the lone power car).

Buckeye would be more likely, the HST Mk3s are fixed Buckeyes so would have no-where for a hook to be coupled to.

As for the power car - If the 08 Cant be sent to retrieve it tonight, then one of GWs HST Power Cars going up solo may be an option, or as there's a Freightliner Depot up at Stoke Gifford, a tow down to St Phills would be another option.


In response to an earlier comment about the end doors in the Mk3, this is how the GW HSTs operate - I believe the GC and XC ones are the same?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190...LSc-n54sBn-n54g3T-n565ud-FSuX6C-FSuTnq-nkVo83

**Tongue in cheek comment.

 

[96tommy]

GC ones do definitely

 

[wensley]

Wont the 08 have coupled up on the chain rather than the buckeye?

As Phillips Marsh is a HST Depot I'm fairly certain both resident 08s are buckeye fitted.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 15:03 Birmingham New Street to Dundee is still a double set. The only difference being it's a 221 plus a 220, not 2x220. It couples together to form a double set at Bristol Temple M, with the 220 being detached at Newcastle. I'm not sure where the 220 comes from before it strengthens this service though.

It comes off the 1007 from Manchester (1V51). It doesn't return back up as the next service from Bristol back upwards to Manchester comes from Penzance (1M49), so that unit forms the front of 1S49.

At Newcastle, said Voyager then attaches to ex-1E48 1345 from Reading. Both units then form 1M76 1935 Newcastle to Birmingham.

 

[43096]

Wont the 08 have coupled up on the chain rather than the buckeye?

No option but to use the buckeye/Alliance coupler. There is no hook/chain option on production HST vehicles.

 

[TheEdge]

Fair enough on the 08. Was basing my knowledge on loco hauled Mk3s which do have an emergency chain, at least the AGA ones do.

 

[philthetube]

stupid question maybe but obviously the brakes come on emergency as the train wire is deenergised but with the power car dividing from the coaches does the design allow for the power car and coaches not to collide if they are braking at different speeds

There shouldn't be risk of a collision.

Brakes will apply on both "trains"

if the rear half brakes harder then they will remain separate, if the front brakes harder it will just slow the rear with it, there would never be a gap to allow a collision to happen,

 

[voyagerdude220]

It comes off the 1007 from Manchester (1V51). It doesn't return back up as the next service from Bristol back upwards to Manchester comes from Penzance (1M49), so that unit forms the front of 1S49.

At Newcastle, said Voyager then attaches to ex-1E48 1345 from Reading. Both units then form 1M76 1935 Newcastle to Birmingham.

I thought the 10:07 from Manchester was terminating at Birmingham whilst the diversions via Worcester are taking place.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When HST coaches are being coupled, is a pull-away test done at all?

btw, that 08 must be one of the few if not the only item of loco/unit/rolling stock in use in the swallow livery

 

[sprinterguy]

btw, that 08 must be one of the few if not the only item of loco/unit/rolling stock in use in the swallow livery

You can also add HST power car 43185 and class 37254 (37518 also carried Swallow livery on the main line recently but has since received a coat of West Coast's drab mud brown livery).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for the power car - If the 08 Cant be sent to retrieve it tonight, then one of GWs HST Power Cars going up solo may be an option, or as there's a Freightliner Depot up at Stoke Gifford, a tow down to St Phills would be another option.

They'll have a job recovering it to Phillips Marsh just yet, the power car is missing a coupler at the rear end! The plan at present is to reunite it with the rest of the set eventually though.

 

[D365]

When HST coaches are being coupled, is a pull-away test done at all?

How on earth do you do a "pull-away test" with unmotored stock?

 

[PHILIPE]

As Phillips Marsh is a HST Depot I'm fairly certain both resident 08s are buckeye fitted.

The PM 08s shunt HST vehicles round the Depot.

 

[richw]

When HST coaches are being coupled, is a pull-away test done at all?

btw, that 08 must be one of the few if not the only item of loco/unit/rolling stock in use in the swallow livery

43185 being the high profile in swallow livery!

 

[louis97]

I thought the 10:07 from Manchester was terminating at Birmingham whilst the diversions via Worcester are taking place.

It is, during the Bromsgrove closure the attachment comes off 1M41 1007 ex Paignton which terminates at Bristol Temple Meads. The reason why the Dundee is a 221/220 and not a 220x2 during the closure is because it now formed by the 0828 from Penzance because of the extended journey time associated with going via Kidderminster, this train is booked a 221 (normally through to Glasgow).

 

[Adam0984]

When HST coaches are being coupled, is a pull-away test done at all?

btw, that 08 must be one of the few if not the only item of loco/unit/rolling stock in use in the swallow livery

even if they did the set wasn't fresh from depot. it had managed to get from Leeds to Exeter and back to Bristol without incident