XC Voyager Refurbishment

[GoneSouth]

Bringing it back on track, it's a little disappointing that it appears that the Ex Avanti units appear to be creeping into refurbishment first when they are in better condition than the native XC fleet!

Are they? Several have said there aren’t any referbs until later in the year or even early next year.

 

[fgwrich]

Are they? Several have said there aren’t any referbs until later in the year or even early next year.

Presumably Litchurch Lane is just storage then? Unless they are to be done at somewhere like Widnes, tying over Litchurch Lane with somme Voyager refurbishments wouldn't be a bad way for Alstom to keep some in employment in the site, alongside the 345 order.

 

[TheWalrus]

I would send the horrid lot on a one way trip to Sims if I could, but alas we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future. Anyway, how busy does 1st class get on XC services? If it is under utilised, and if most formations will be doubled up, could there be scope to make the 1st current 1st class coaches a composite to boost standard capacity?

The XC services I have been on in first seem to be one extreme or the other - reasonably full or almost empty!

The plans I saw for the Voyager refurbishment looked like the First Class will be the same as the Standard seats - can anyone confirm this is the case? If so why and How will this mean First will be better than Standard?

 

[Goldfish62]

The plans I saw for the Voyager refurbishment looked like the First Class will be the same as the Standard seats - can anyone confirm this is the case? If so why and How will this mean First will be better than Standard?

I have to say I hadn't noticed if that's the case. A pity if true as the current 1st Class seats are very comfortable. Are they not even having larger cushions or a recline function?

 

[duffield]

Also include the frequent smells, vestibule doors with a mind of their own and iffy luggage provision. Their Mk2 and Mk3 predecessors were not plagued with such issues, though they were clapped out and needed replacement. Hopefully the refurb will address a lot of the issues the Voyagers have but fundamentally per unit they don't have enough capacity, a legacy of the VHF services Virgin and the SRA thought would compensate for shorter units.

All three of these are real issues, but I'd suggest that they would all be lesser issues if the overcrowding was solved. The smells are worst in the vestibules, which are mainly only occupied due to overcrowding; the vestibule door reliability is probably affected by the constant occupation of the vestibules including people blocking the doors from closing when overcrowding is severe, and the luggage capacity would be less of an issue if the overcrowding was solved. So while the Voyagers do leave something to be desired in these areas, all roads still lead (at least to some extent) to overcrowding.

Anyhow, on the refurb front, I'm not clear whether by the time the refurb starts there will be enough extra sets so that, even allowing for the sets that are out of action for the refurb, there will still be more in service than before the first extra sets came across. Maybe that's still an unknown factor? To be specific, I'm wondering if by the time 3 sets are out for refurb, a total of (say) six new sets or more would have been transferred?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The vestibule issue is that there doesn't seem to be any ventilation/aircon at all in the vestibules (same as say 158s), so any niff that gets in there stays there. Probably a costly one to resolve.

As for overcrowding, I suspect the Avanti Voyagers will be enough to largely resolve it. The initial batch was just per-vehicle a direct replacement for the HSTs, but they will be diagrammed far more intensively than the HSTs were, and then there are the extra ones.

 

[John R]

And worth reminding people that each 5 car set added to the daily availability can, by juggling the fleet around, result in a strengthening of 3 diagrams.

 

[Killingworth]

The vestibule issue is that there doesn't seem to be any ventilation/aircon at all in the vestibules (same as say 158s), so any niff that gets in there stays there. Probably a costly one to resolve.

As for overcrowding, I suspect the Avanti Voyagers will be enough to largely resolve it. The initial batch was just per-vehicle a direct replacement for the HSTs, but they will be diagrammed far more intensively than the HSTs were, and then there are the extra ones.

We shall see. I know several potential users who avoid travelling to XC destinations rather than chance encountering another overcrowded train. As they rarely stop at Chesterfield anyway at present that includes me when going south!

 

[Trainman40083]

Bringing it back on track, it's a little disappointing that it appears that the Ex Avanti units appear to be creeping into refurbishment first when they are in better condition than the native XC fleet!

The Avanti sets need some modification before Cross Country can use them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Avanti sets need some modification before Cross Country can use them.

They're already in use. They just need more work to harmonise them with the XC ones.

 

[978wta]

The Avanti sets need some modification before Cross Country can use them.

The main mod is to decommission the tilt system.

 

[AirRail]

Bringing it back on track, it's a little disappointing that it appears that the Ex Avanti units appear to be creeping into refurbishment first when they are in better condition than the native XC fleet!

Interior refurbishments are not planned to be taking place on ex-Avanti units until all XC have been completed. Ofcourse minor re-branding and XC safety notices aside etc.

As mentioned many times in this thread now, XC have said the refurbishment works have been delayed and won't start until early next year.

Where is it you have found out / believe otherwise as per your post?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Interior refurbishments are not planned to be taking place on ex-Avanti units until all XC have been completed. Ofcourse minor re-branding and XC safety notices aside etc.

As mentioned many times in this thread now, XC have said the refurbishment works have been delayed and won't start until early next year.

Where is it you have found out / believe otherwise as per your post?

Stated upthread that a voyager possibly 221113 has allegedly gone into Litchurch Lane.
Perhaps that is the prototype for the refurb ie measuring up / quantifying and writing the process.
Obviously the ex Avanti 221s will be handled differently to the core XC fleet in terms of strip down, simply because different internal furnishings

 

[takno]

Stated upthread that a voyager possibly 221113 has allegedly gone into Litchurch Lane.
Perhaps that is the prototype for the refurb ie measuring up / quantifying and writing the process.
Obviously the ex Avanti 221s will be handled differently to the core XC fleet in terms of strip down, simply because different internal furnishings

More likely it's having the tilt function switched off and having the basic compatibility mods done

 

[class 9]

More likely it's having the tilt function switched off and having the basic compatibility mods done

No, they're done at Central Rivers Depot.

 

[Russel]

Could we be reading too much into units being seen at Litchurch Lane, could they be there simply in store until Central Rivers have the capacity to do the mods required?

 

[AirRail]

Could we be reading too much into units being seen at Litchurch Lane, could they be there simply in store until Central Rivers have the capacity to do the mods required?

Exactly my thoughts. Happy to be corrected. But nowhere official or anyone internally has said that any internal refurbs are taking place right now.

 

[Mark J]

Having travelled on 'Avanti' XC stock this evening, priority certainly is needed for updating the existing XC stock.

The transferred Avanti stock is well maintained and luxurious compared to the existing CC stock.

 

[irish_rail]

Having travelled on 'Avanti' XC stock this evening, priority certainly is needed for updating the existing XC stock.

The transferred Avanti stock is well maintained and luxurious compared to the existing CC stock.

How many sets are now transferred? For some reason have only seen 1x ex avanti set in Plymouth in past 6 weeks. Where are the refurbished ones being used? Presumably they are being kept on the Manchester to Bournemouth route due to having buffets??? Can anyone in the know elaborate? It would be nice to try out the luxury down this way, as all we seem to get these days are 4 car sets with the occasional 8!

 

[Goldfish62]

How many sets are now transferred? For some reason have only seen 1x ex avanti set in Plymouth in past 6 weeks. Where are the refurbished ones being used? Presumably they are being kept on the Manchester to Bournemouth route due to having buffets???

The buffets are permanently shut and I'm told will all be stripped out by October.

I assume there's an effort to keep as many 5 car units on the Reading - Birmingham corridor as practical because the service levels are still only at little over 50% of pre-Covid and passengers are regularly unable to board at Oxford, Banbury and Leamington.

 

[fgwrich]

The buffets are permanently shut and I'm told will all be stripped out by October.

I assume there's an effort to keep as many 5 car units on the Reading - Birmingham corridor as practical because the service levels are still only at little over 50% of pre-Covid and passengers are regularly unable to board at Oxford, Banbury and Leamington.

The onboard shop wasn’t shut when I travelled on 116 a few weeks ago, and I was told they were going to keep those open until the refurbishment then. 115 took the longest to re-open due to deep cleaning but I believe it’s since opened too.

 

[sprinterguy]

How many sets are now transferred? For some reason have only seen 1x ex avanti set in Plymouth in past 6 weeks. Where are the refurbished ones being used? Presumably they are being kept on the Manchester to Bournemouth route due to having buffets??? Can anyone in the know elaborate? It would be nice to try out the luxury down this way, as all we seem to get these days are 4 car sets with the occasional 8!

Three ex-Avanti sets have entered service with Crosscountry at present, and they are used indiscriminately on 5-car diagrams. For example, there is one, 221116, on 1S47 08:40 Penzance - Edinburgh today, and the same unit was used on 1S37 05:24 Plymouth - Edinburgh and 1V68 15:07 Edinburgh - Plymouth return on Monday. One of the three, 221114 I think, is reportedly temporarily out of use at the moment after being involved in a fatality at Chester-le-Street recently.

 

[Goldfish62]

The onboard shop wasn’t shut when I travelled on 116 a few weeks ago, and I was told they were going to keep those open until the refurbishment then. 115 took the longest to re-open due to deep cleaning but I believe it’s since opened too.

A friend of mine does the trolleys on them. There is no shop. It's closed. When the train is too crowded to get through (which is most of the time) he is instructed to go to the end of the train irrespective of whether it's an ex AWC unit. He has been told internally that the unused shops are being stripped out by October.

I assume when you travelled whoever was doing the trolley decided to position it behind the vacant counter, similar to what used to happen on the 444s before SWR removed catering.

 

[mpthomson]

My SeatFrog is usually around £20 each way BPW-LDS. Add that to a standard class split ticket BPW-CNM-BHM-DBY-SHF-LDS whole journey comes in at £180 return, First Class.
First Class is usually quite busy until around 1900...

I use it for work fairly regularly, as it's often the most efficient use of my time as I can get work done on the train that I couldn't do if I was driving.

 

[fgwrich]

A friend of mine does the trolleys on them. There is no shop. It's closed. When the train is too crowded to get through (which is most of the time) he is instructed to go to the end of the train irrespective of whether it's an ex AWC unit. He has been told internally that the unused shops are being stripped out by October.

I assume when you travelled whoever was doing the trolley decided to position it behind the vacant counter, similar to what used to happen on the 444s before SWR removed catering.

Nope, Fully open with a very cheery member of XC staff onboard. There’s been photos on Twitter of it open too. Shops been fully labelled up for XC as well so it would be odd if they’re not planning to use them if they’ve started branding them up.

 

[Goldfish62]

Nope, Fully open with a very cheery member of XC staff onboard. There’s been photos on Twitter of it open too. Shops been fully labelled up for XC as well so it would be odd if they’re not planning to use them if they’ve started branding them up.

Well well! I'll let my friend know! (He's not on social media and has no interest whatsoever in railways.)

I'm not surprised the member of staff was cheery!

 

[Ash Bridge]

Nope, Fully open with a very cheery member of XC staff onboard. There’s been photos on Twitter of it open too. Shops been fully labelled up for XC as well so it would be odd if they’re not planning to use them if they’ve started branding them up.

Thanks for posting - This is great to see and a very positive and sensible development on XC, probably too much to expect the reinstatement of a shop/buffet counter on refurbishment of the rest of the fleet though! and surely a much better working environment for the onboard attendants!

 

[357]

A friend of mine does the trolleys on them. There is no shop. It's closed. When the train is too crowded to get through (which is most of the time) he is instructed to go to the end of the train irrespective of whether it's an ex AWC unit. He has been told internally that the unused shops are being stripped out by October.

I assume when you travelled whoever was doing the trolley decided to position it behind the vacant counter, similar to what used to happen on the 444s before SWR removed catering.

The shops are open as the AWC units have no Home Base. They will be taken out and replaced with luggage space in the refurbishment.

The instructions and briefing pack your friend will have been given were very clear about this - so I'm unsure why he's become confused.

 

[paulmch]

Three ex-Avanti sets have entered service with Crosscountry at present, and they are used indiscriminately on 5-car diagrams. For example, there is one, 221116, on 1S47 08:40 Penzance - Edinburgh today, and the same unit was used on 1S37 05:24 Plymouth - Edinburgh and 1V68 15:07 Edinburgh - Plymouth return on Monday. One of the three, 221114 I think, is reportedly temporarily out of use at the moment after being involved in a fatality at Chester-le-Street recently.

Has this started to filter through to capacity increases on other diagrams yet?

 

[Goldfish62]

The instructions and briefing pack your friend will have been given were very clear about this - so I'm unsure why he's become confused.

No comment!