York ticket gating abandoned

[John @ home]

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis said:

"East Coast will remain in public hands for two years and there will be full continuity of service. But this is not a care and maintenance job – I want to see real improvements in the service and better value for money." ...

Improvements and changes include: ...

* The withdrawal of the planned gating of York station in order to maintain the existing through access for non-passengers, while accelerating the completion of gating at King’s Cross to deter fare dodgers.

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/About-us...O-IMPROVE-SERVICES-AND-INVEST-FOR-THE-FUTURE/

 

[4SRKT]

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis said:

"East Coast will remain in public hands for two years and there will be full continuity of service. But this is not a care and maintenance job – I want to see real improvements in the service and better value for money." ...

Improvements and changes include: ...

* The withdrawal of the planned gating of York station in order to maintain the existing through access for non-passengers, while accelerating the completion of gating at King’s Cross to deter fare dodgers.

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/About-us...O-IMPROVE-SERVICES-AND-INVEST-FOR-THE-FUTURE/

Fantastic news!

Why are they pushing ahead at the Cross though? Are fare dodgers a problem in thatLondon, but not in York? Maybe it's Valenta enthusiasts thronging the platforms at KX when Grand Central are in town that they're trying to discourage? Everyone dying to get a shot of the clag-filled train shed when the power cars erupt. The Fun Police can't like this (just like they don't like anything they don't understand), so must be only too glad to spoil the party.

 

[johnb]

At KX (apart from Platform 8, which won't be gated), there's no real disadvantage to gating: the platforms are restricted access already, so adding barriers won't change the appearance or really inconvenience anyone. At York, the gating would have required many more, uglier gates and would have axed a popular through route for locals.

 

[Old Timer]

York has ticket barriers from when it was opened until recently.

People either really DO not know such things or choose to forget, as how on earth restoring ticket barriers to a station that has had them since time immemorial can be said to alter the architecture of the place just astounds me, as does the attitude of the objectors using that as the basis of their objection !

What next ? Bridges with trains banned maybe, or better still why not just remove the track from stations as well. That surely must improve things ? No dirty oily ballast, greases, diesel fumes, OHL, etc, etc.

 

[blacknight]

York has ticket barriers from when it was opened until recently.

People either really DO not know such things or choose to forget, as how on earth restoring ticket barriers to a station that has had them since time immemorial can be said to alter the architecture of the place just astounds me, as does the attitude of the objectors using that as the basis of their objection !

Have no objection to a manned barrier performing ticket checks which I guess you are thinking of but what was planned was a million miles from that.
Fine at terminus stations but of little use at inter change stations say that the new automated gate system can use logic to block tickets until 15 minutes prior to booked departure time nice idea except that at many stations the facilities are platform side so unless you want booking hall with a runnig water feature smelling like a urinal you have to manual & over ride system which defeats the purpose of them being there.
What as been installed elsewhere along ECML a stainless steel & glass maginot line to revenue protection which can be breeched by cheapest ticket. Now the knock on effect is that now on ticket checks are in decline as in theory everyone as a ticket of sorts.

 

[gordonthemoron]

how many people can you get through a barrier gate on one ticket? I've done two, no problem at all

 

[The 158 Man]

No ticket barriers at York? Hurrah! Excellent news!

 

[Lampshade]

Fantastic news!

Why are they pushing ahead at the Cross though? Are fare dodgers a problem in thatLondon, but not in York? Maybe it's Valenta enthusiasts thronging the platforms at KX when Grand Central are in town that they're trying to discourage? Everyone dying to get a shot of the clag-filled train shed when the power cars erupt. The Fun Police can't like this (just like they don't like anything they don't understand), so must be only too glad to spoil the party.

I already did

 

[theblackwatch]

York has ticket barriers from when it was opened until recently.

People either really DO not know such things or choose to forget, as how on earth restoring ticket barriers to a station that has had them since time immemorial can be said to alter the architecture of the place just astounds me, as does the attitude of the objectors using that as the basis of their objection !

What next ? Bridges with trains banned maybe, or better still why not just remove the track from stations as well. That surely must improve things ? No dirty oily ballast, greases, diesel fumes, OHL, etc, etc.

York hasn't had barriers for over 20 years - and back then, there weren't 6 ft high perspex monstrosities to stop people, it was a simple couple of orange booths, one for 'in' and one for 'out'. Plus, you could buy a platform ticket by putting 3x2p into a machine (I'm sure I've still got one!).

Also at York, there is one TOC which encourages you to buy tickets on the train, and another (which runs seasonal services only) where you cannot even buy a ticket for their services at the ticket office!

 

[Lampshade]

York hasn't had barriers for over 20 years - and back then, there weren't 6 ft high perspex monstrosities to stop people, it was a simple couple of orange booths, one for 'in' and one for 'out'. Plus, you could buy a platform ticket by putting 3x2p into a machine (I'm sure I've still got one!).

Also at York, there is one TOC which encourages you to buy tickets on the train, and another (which runs seasonal services only) where you cannot even buy a ticket for their services at the ticket office!

100% agree

Also, I don't get this business of gating whole stations as opposed to just the platforms - Newcastle springs to mind here, they should look at London Marylebone to see how it should be done. Surely this will only harm the business of the shops/outlets in the station itself.

 

[HaxbyFur]

York doesn't really need gates down to the fact that the next stations on each line are a fair distance from York itself.
- Scarborough line = Malton (about 20/30 mins)
- ECML South = Doncaster (25 mins)
- Leeds = Ulleskelf (10 mins) or Garforth (20 mins) or Leeds (25/30 mins)
- ECML North = Thirsk (20 mins) or Durham next major stop (30 mins(?))
- Harrogate line = this is the only one close with Poppleton at 5 mins or less.

Theres plenty of time to check tickets on the trains opposed to at Kings X for example where (as I believe) there's a commuter station a mile or two from the station. The only route this doesnt stand for is the Harrogate lane in which i've been on where people have got on at Poppleton and the guard hasn't even started a check of the train getting off in York.

Also the Scarborough line will have Haxby at 5 mins in a year or two, but still.

 

[142094]

Good news for York, just too late for Newcastle. They have just installed them, they look quite crap. I think they have only gated the area to the right of the ticket office when you enter from Neville Street, so access to platform is going to be a bit of trek around the back of the ticket office.

Darlington has them on now, but there are not many (guessing around 5), which when a HST of 225 set comes in means that there is a lot of people waiting to get through. Although Darlo did need barriers as there always seemed to be problems on the Northern services to Bishop and Saltburn with ticketless kids.

 

[aptisman]

Are the gates at Newcastle operational yet?

 

[attics26]

Darlo has 7 in total tho only 1 wide access - should have been minimum of 2 wide gates - or atleast position the only 1 in the middle but no its at the end so access with bikes prams etc means cutting across people going the opposite way.

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge has seven, three of which are wide access, but one normal and one wide are difficult to get to except from the ticket windows. In the peaks, if you're using the "in" gates you often have to fight against people heading "out" coming from the platforms, especially those needing to buy tickets from the gateline staff/be manaully put through. That's after you've navigated round the TVM queues. On the way out, those TVM queues can be a problem again, as can people looking at the arrival/departure boards or just waiting for people coming off the trains.

basically, the ticket hall was fatr too small for all the purposes it's asked to fill before the barriers and additional ticket machines, since they were installed it can be nightmareish (especially in nasty weather).

I reckon a line of exit gates at the ends of platforms 3 and 6 would go a long way to making it a nicer station, if it must have barriers. Could easily have doors to make them peak time only.

 

[142094]

Are the gates at Newcastle operational yet?

Went through last week on the way home, they aren't up and running just yet but guessing they'll be in service very soon.

Will surely clamp down on people going to the MetroCentre without a ticket. Northern never stood a chance of getting money from passengers, especially on weekends and nearer to Christmas.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Gates still not operational at Newcastle yet, although more have appeared near to platform 1.

 

[jon0844]

When we went to York this weekend, there was a group of people that had tickets to Doncaster (an East Coast train from London, but I don't know where along the way they got on and only caught a glimpse of their airline-type ticket) that got off at York. Is this a common thing? The ticket check was long before York, so I guess you could easily stay on.

I don't use GNER/NXEC/EC much at all but I've never been ticket checked on the journey BACK to London yet (always on a Sunday afternoon/evening). Do they even do checks then?

 

[142094]

Ticket check seem to be sporadic on the East Coast, was on two yesterday from Darlington to Newcastle and back and didn't get checked in the 3o mins I was on the train. Probably think that no-one without a ticket can get onto the station at Darlington, yet still hand out plastic passes to people wanting to go to the toilet (who could then easily get a free ride).

However one thing I do notice is that someone with a clicker goes through counting the amount of people on the train, yet still no ticket check.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Are the gates at Newcastle operational yet?

They were being trialled yesterday - with plenty staff on hand to assist and observe. By the evening they were all "open".

First impression is that its going to create a bit of a bottleneck at the main line of gates (next to booking office/customer centre) when a well loaded train arrives, and more serious when theres a busy arrival shortly before a busy departure so pax are queuing at both sides of tha barriers.
The additional row of gates to the west (Plat 1 end) are likely to remain underused unless pax are encouraged to use that route onto the footbridge.

Still had all the usual on-train checks - plus random checks of pax boarding EC at Kings Cross with a wall-of-RPIs .

 

[142094]

I'm up on Saturday so will have a look to see how they're fairing. Any idea if Newcastle give out platform tickets? Never tried but could always buy a ticket to Manors instead, means you don't have the time limit.

 

[142094]

Barriers now running at Newcastle, although when I used it it swallowed my ticket, an error message saying "could not read ticket" and the red X appeared, and the gate stayed open after I had passed through.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Er, no, I don't think so.
Yes, the Newcastle barriers are electrically "on" and can accept tickets (and people have been doing this - not just you), and can refuse them too. Either the green tick or the red cross are constantly displayed on each gate. But the physical barrier which the machine operates (the mechanical gates) are not enganged. (Or they shouldn't be unless there was some brief test today which I missed)
I walked through and back at least six times today without impediment - but then I didn't try to put a ticket in the machine either ! ! !

 

[yorkie]

I'm up on Saturday so will have a look to see how they're fairing. Any idea if Newcastle give out platform tickets? Never tried but could always buy a ticket to Manors instead, means you don't have the time limit.

They said they would let people through who are enthusiasts, sending people off, meeting people, etc. Let's see if they stick to that. These sort of schemes need opposing because you can bet that not all staff stick to that all of the time!

The guard on the 2100 KGX-NCL today asked us to retain tickets in case of barrier checks at York. Yeah, York at 2310 on a non-race day? As if!

 

[Lampshade]

They said they would let people through who are enthusiasts, sending people off, meeting people, etc. Let's see if they stick to that. These sort of schemes need opposing because you can bet that not all staff stick to that all of the time!

The guard on the 2100 KGX-NCL today asked us to retain tickets in case of barrier checks at York. Yeah, York at 2310 on a non-race day? As if!

Excellent post, my thoughts exactly

Southeastern are good in this respect, I can't comment on any other TOCs though.

 

[HaxbyFur]

Does anyone think that It may be worth investing in a new system to stop easy riders? What about something train based, for instance, having barriers on the doors of the train.. the driver/conductor turn the barriers one way for people to get off first then when everyone is off they change direction and require a ticket swiped through to get on, then you have your standard in journey conductor checks.

 

[Lampshade]

Does anyone think that It may be worth investing in a new system to stop easy riders? What about something train based, for instance, having barriers on the doors of the train.. the driver/conductor turn the barriers one way for people to get off first then when everyone is off they change direction and require a ticket swiped through to get on, then you have your standard in journey conductor checks.

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice it'll mean a complete redesign of trains. How does the driver/conductor know when to reverse the barriers? Someone slow to leave the train, having to fight through baggage in the aisles/vestibules may find they can no longer leave as people are now getting on. There's also the issue of disabled access.

 

[HaxbyFur]

It's a good idea in theory, but in practice it'll mean a complete redesign of trains. How does the driver/conductor know when to reverse the barriers? Someone slow to leave the train, having to fight through baggage in the aisles/vestibules may find they can no longer leave as people are now getting on. There's also the issue of disabled access.

Redesign.. :P

- You must use the ticket to get out of the train as well then, the barrier is bi-directional and will open which ever way the ticket is inserted.

- The barriers could be fitted to the floor of existing units doors.

- One of the doors on the train could be a disabled barrier at which the conductor stands.

- Dispatch crew oversee the loading/unloading ensuring no-one gets "glitched" inside.

 

[The 158 Man]

Redesign.. :P

- Dispatch crew oversee the loading/unloading ensuring no-one gets "glitched" inside.

Not all stations have dispatch crews though.....

Anyway, the amount of stopping time at stations would go through the roof! They would certainly have to pad the timetables!

 

[Lampshade]

I think the best thing to do is just look at what France/Germany are doing and do that, it works for them.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone think that It may be worth investing in a new system to stop easy riders? What about something train based, for instance, having barriers on the doors of the train.. the driver/conductor turn the barriers one way for people to get off first then when everyone is off they change direction and require a ticket swiped through to get on, then you have your standard in journey conductor checks.

It would certainly not make rail travel easy and drive people to their cars. I'd only agree to it if every road was barriered for cars.