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Biggest Place With No Terminating Services

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merlodlliw

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Oh TBTC what a chance to mention my County town,The most populated in North Wales, or Mid Wales.

The Borderline services terminate at Wrexham Central but that's for another day, Wrexham General fits the title on Bank Holidays with two BHX

Bob
 
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CarltonA

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I am inclined to support the Chelmsford argument. Vauxhall, Farringdon etc are not "the biggest place" as they don't seem to cover as big an area and as they are parts of London not a separate place in their own right?
 

34D

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Does anything terminate at Tamworth (upper or lower) please?

Is Chelmsford bigger/busier than Hitchin?
 

richw

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Camborne in cornwall has a population of 39,937, the largest of any town in cornwall, just sees through services. dunno how this compares to other places mentioned population
 

scrapy

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Wikipedia shows St Helens having a slightly larger population than Chelmsford. Does St Helens have any terminating services (either Junction or Central stations)? I am not aware of any.
 

Liam

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What about Dunfermline or Kirkcaldy?

Probably nowhere near the likes of Vauxhallin size, but both 50,000 plus. Do either of these have terminators?

IIRC, there are a couple of services which start at Kirkcaldy, but none which terminate, though I may be wrong. Dunfermline, I believe most terminating services terminate at Cowdenbeath, though I think there is a service which starts at Dunfermline Town in the morning, not sure if there is a corresponding terminating service from Edinburgh.
 

12CSVT

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Not sure if it is possible to give a definitive answer to this one.

For example, while it is true that no trains terminate at Vauxhall, this is just one of several hundred stations in Greater London.

Is there an actual borough or postal district called Vauxhall, and if so
a) what size is it (in terms of square miles) ?
b) what is its population ?
 

stut

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Washington, Tyne & Wear, doesn't have any terminating services, he pointed out tediously.
 

DynamicSpirit

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I decided to try and settle this question with some number-crunching on the CIF timetable data at http://data.atoc.org/. My verdict is that if you’re looking for ‘most significant town’ then the answer is arguably either Chatham or Harlow (And I don't think anyone suggested either of those!). However, if you’re looking purely at numbers of trains, then - full marks to Lampshade and philjo for correctly identifying the top two stations – Vauxhall and Waterloo East!

In more detail: I worked it by looking at the total numbers of departures from stations for the week 2-8 July.

First a couple of warnings: Getting this data involved some complicated SQL queries – complicated enough that it’s very possible I’ve done something wrong – so feel free to point out if you notice anything odd. (All the data looks sensible to me though). In particular, I haven’t taken account of train associations, which may distort the figures where you have trains splitting or turning into other trains.

So first – a sanity check. Here’s the top 20 stations by departures (ignoring the non-terminating condition).

1 15353 CLAPHAM JUNCTION
2 10023 LONDON BRIDGE
3 6446 VAUXHALL
4 6001 EAST CROYDON
5 5607 STRATFORD (LONDON)
6 5505 LONDON WATERLOO
7 5031 WIMBLEDON
8 5017 BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET
9 4945 LONDON VICTORIA
10 4753 GLASGOW CENTRAL
11 4711 WILLESDEN JUNCTION
12 4702 LONDON WATERLOO EAST
13 4682 MANCHESTER PICCADILLY
14 4562 LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET
15 4347 READING
16 4169 HAYMARKET
17 4101 WOKING
18 4029 MOORFIELDS
19 3967 EARLSFIELD
20 3826 LEEDS


Now for the answer to the question…. The top 20 by trains calling, where nothing terminates.


1 6446 VAUXHALL
2 4702 LONDON WATERLOO EAST
3 3967 EARLSFIELD
4 3521 CANONBURY
5 3046 BROCKLEY
6 3046 FOREST HILL
7 3046 HONOR OAK PARK
8 3046 SYDENHAM
9 2967 RAYNES PARK
10 2865 JAMES STREET (LIVERPOOL)
11 2860 KENSAL GREEN
12 2859 HARLESDEN
13 2832 HAGGERSTON
14 2832 HOXTON
15 2832 ROTHERHITHE
16 2832 SHOREDITCH HIGH STREET
17 2832 SHADWELL
18 2832 WAPPING
19 2832 CANADA WATER <LUL>
20 2832 WHITECHAPEL <LUL>


Unfortunately that list is a bit uninteresting because all but one of the stations are in London, so it doesn’t really tell you the biggest places – mostly just which stations or on the most frequent metro-style routes in London. So here’s where it gets subjective. I took the list and removed all the stations that I think are only there because they lie on a single high frequency line of local metro services, with no interchange (I left Vauxhall because it lies on about 10 commuter lines). That leaves this top 20:

1 6446 VAUXHALL
2 4702 LONDON WATERLOO EAST
3 2865 JAMES STREET (LIVERPOOL)
4 2723 PECKHAM RYE
5 2466 FARRINGDON <LUL>(LONDON)
6 2457 TOTTENHAM HALE
7 2442 WEMBLEY CENTRAL
8 2385 PUTNEY
9 2085 TULSE HILL
10 2045 EALING BROADWAY
11 1917 SALFORD CRESCENT (LANCS)
12 1911 CHATHAM
13 1898 PAISLEY GILMOUR STREET
14 1865 SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
15 1825 WOOLWICH ARSENAL
16 1788 HARPENDEN
17 1763 BRENTWOOD
18 1665 LIMEHOUSE
19 1550 CHARING CROSS (GLASGOW)
20 1503 HARLOW TOWN


I think that’s more interesting, but still London-dominated. So I tried another approach: So where a town or city had multiple stations in the list, I allowed only the top station. That left this list – which I think is as close to a definitive answer as we’re ever going to get:

1 6446 VAUXHALL
2 2865 JAMES STREET (LIVERPOOL)
3 1917 SALFORD CRESCENT (LANCS)
4 1911 CHATHAM
5 1898 PAISLEY GILMOUR STREET
6 1865 SMETHWICK GALTON BRIDGE
7 1788 HARPENDEN
8 1763 BRENTWOOD
9 1560 BIRKENHEAD PARK
10 1557 GRANGETOWN (CARDIFF)
11 1550 CHARING CROSS (GLASGOW)
12 1503 HARLOW TOWN
13 1500 ASHTEAD
14 1482 BENFLEET
15 1382 HEWORTH
16 1366 SHOREHAM-BY-SEA
17 1311 HATFIELD (HERTS)
18 1271 POTTERS BAR
19 1269 FORD
20 1258 BURGESS HILL


And I reckon the most significant place is Chatham because it’s the highest placed station where there isn’t a terminus station in the same town. (That does however depend on whether you view the town as ‘Chatham’ or as ‘Medway’. If you view Chatham as part of Medway rather than as a town in its own right, then the next ones are Harpenden, Brentwood and Harlow, but Harlow probably wins on being the biggest town. Birkenhead is also in there but suffers the same ambiguity as Chatham - is it a town in its own right or part of Wirral (or even - part of the Liverpool connurbation?)
 
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james60059

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Stafford?

Was thinking myself as well, now the occasional daytime service from Coventry (via the Trent Valley) no longer runs (finished in 2004 IIRC) and now the Chase Line services only go as far as Rugeley Trent Valley to and from Birmingham New Street. I think Rugby is another contender too perhaps.....
 

MidnightFlyer

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I think Rugby is another contender too perhaps.....

Rugby has 1tpd starting to Euston via Northampton operated by Virgin (a Voyager I think), which I believe leaves at 0620, plus a couple of others which use the southbound bays. From December when LM start running at 110mph and via Weedon, isn't there meant to be a new hourly Rugby-Euston via Northampton service, or does it come from further afield?
 

Bevan Price

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Wikipedia shows St Helens having a slightly larger population than Chelmsford. Does St Helens have any terminating services (either Junction or Central stations)? I am not aware of any.
No terminating services at St. Helens Junction since the branch to Shaw street (now called Central) closed to passengers in the 1960's.
St. Helens Central has one train that originates here, but it arrives as e.c.s.
Currently no regular terminating services, but it can be used for terminating services when there is engineering work between St. Helenas and Wigan.
 

Statto

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In normal circumstances Moorfields in Liverpool, same level of services as Central but nothing terminated there until the temp closure of Central, when Central is reopened, nothing will terminate at Moorfields.
 

The Ham

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And I reckon the most significant place is Chatham because it’s the highest placed station where there isn’t a terminus station in the same town. (That does however depend on whether you view the town as ‘Chatham’ or as ‘Medway’. If you view Chatham as part of Medway rather than as a town in its own right, then the next ones are Harpenden, Brentwood and Harlow, but Harlow probably wins on being the biggest town. Birkenhead is also in there but suffers the same ambiguity as Chatham - is it a town in its own right or part of Wirral (or even - part of the Liverpool connurbation?)

If you are counting the Medway towns (2001 population 232K), I have a connurbation which is bigger, that being the Aldershot Urban Area (population 243K). Which although having stations at Aldershot, Camberley, Frimley, Farnborough (Main & North), North Camp, Farnham, Blackwater. Ash, Ash Vale and Sandhurst has no trains that terminate.
 

transmanche

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(Re Wimbledon)Well if you do count the district line, then the answer becomes easy: If tube trains count as real trains for the purposes of this quiz, then the runaway winners of 'biggest stations without terminating trains' would be tube stations in central London (assuming 'biggest' = 'most trains'). I don't think any national rail station could compete against a tube station like Oxford Circus or Green Park, say, that have three tube lines each running trains on couple-of-minute frequencies! (And as far as I'm aware, nothing would normally terminate at them).

If you follow that reasoning, then I think the clear winner amongst tube stations, would be Kings Cross St. Pancras. But only if you count it as a separate station from the national rail stations (otherwise the terminating national rail trains rules it out).
There are some Sunday morning Piccadilly line trains from Heathrow which terminate at Kings Cross St Pancras.
 

Deerfold

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Think there were some Halifax terminators, but not got the current timetable handy.

Yes, there's one every two hours from Leeds on a Sunday (with the alternate ones continuing to Huddersfield) 1112 / 1312 / 1512 / 1712 from Leeds.
 

tsr

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The OP's question was about the "largest British places" with no terminating services. Weymouth Quay is one of the stations in Weymouth. Now, does anyone think it has terminating services? ;) That must be one of the larger standalone settlements with no terminating services at its terminus station! :P
 

Southern

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If you are counting the Medway towns (2001 population 232K), I have a connurbation which is bigger, that being the Aldershot Urban Area (population 243K). Which although having stations at Aldershot, Camberley, Frimley, Farnborough (Main & North), North Camp, Farnham, Blackwater. Ash, Ash Vale and Sandhurst has no trains that terminate.

Think Farnham still has the 1023 from Waterloo. Aldershot has the 0630/0730 from Guildford and the 1805 from Waterloo.
 

DynamicSpirit

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If you are counting the Medway towns (2001 population 232K), I have a connurbation which is bigger, that being the Aldershot Urban Area (population 243K). Which although having stations at Aldershot, Camberley, Frimley, Farnborough (Main & North), North Camp, Farnham, Blackwater. Ash, Ash Vale and Sandhurst has no trains that terminate.

Sorry, I maybe wasn't so clear. If you count Chatham on its own then there's no terminating services. Medway as a whole can't count though, most obviously because numerous services terminate at Gillingham. But then as others have pointed out, the Aldershot urban area does have a small number of terminators.
 
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