Why is a Borismaster bus in Southampton?

[bb21]

I've been on a few of them on the 38 and everybody, staff and passengers, seems happy enough with them.

Of course they will. They are new buses.

You can't assume that the average passenger has the relevant information to decide on a rational basis.

 

[455driver]

Whats going to happen to them at 10 years old, TfL wont allow buses older than that to be used, hence the Arriva/First Group/Go Ahead 10 year old ex London buses turning up throughout the Country, this over-complicated pile of <cough> wont be wanted/suitable anywhere else.

 

[Antman]

Whats going to happen to them at 10 years old, TfL wont allow buses older than that to be used, hence the Arriva/First Group/Go Ahead 10 year old ex London buses turning up throughout the Country, this over-complicated pile of <cough> wont be wanted/suitable anywhere else.

As I understand it they will spend their entire working life in London, there are certainly bus more than 10 years old on TfL services.

 

[455driver]

there are certainly bus more than 10 years old on TfL services.

Didnt know that, I thought it was a blanket condition!

 

[Pumbaa]

Didnt know that, I thought it was a blanket condition!

I thought there is a difference between a route that's done under contract to TfL ie all the important ones, and there can be routes that operators run on the side not under contract, and as such the TfL requirements don't apply.

And yes, it's 33% more expensive per passenger.

http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2013/05/04/maths-lesson-new-bus-for-london-33-more-expensive/

And, I think I remember Tom saying, that NBfL also fails to meet TfLs own specs on accessibility, capacity and other guff.

All in all, a spurious vanity exercise with no tangible overall benefit to Londoners, the taxpayer or the public purse. Trebles all round then.

 

[455driver]

Trebles all round then.

I thank you! hick.

 

[Antman]

Didnt know that, I thought it was a blanket condition!

Arriva in particular have a few oldies still in service

 

[bb21]

Whats going to happen to them at 10 years old, TfL wont allow buses older than that to be used, hence the Arriva/First Group/Go Ahead 10 year old ex London buses turning up throughout the Country, this over-complicated pile of <cough> wont be wanted/suitable anywhere else.

14 years these are designed for and will spend all that time in London iirc, so essentially two contract rounds with extensions.

 

[455driver]

That is a rather short lifespan especially considering the costs per vehicle, I cant see them being as cheap as an ordinary low floor bus, but then they were nothing more than a vanity project anyway.

Why does London need a special bus anyway?

 

[83G/84D]

Trying desperately to sell an overweight, over sized, under-capacity, over-expensive turd to other places?

Hopefully going to Southampton Docks for export?
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You 2 are awful!

Are you Dick Emery?

 

[455driver]

Are you Dick Emery?

Who said I liked you?

 

[bb21]

That is a rather short lifespan especially considering the costs per vehicle, I cant see them being as cheap as an ordinary low floor bus, but then they were nothing more than a vanity project anyway.

Why does London need a special bus anyway?

You weren't expecting today's plastic buses to last much longer than that, were you? Even Routemasters weren't designed to last 40 years.

It's a total waste of money. London does not need another specially-designed bus to attract visitors. London's iconic image is the red bus, which all of them these days are. The image of the Routemaster, most importantly the halfcab, cannot be replaced by the lame attempt at the Borismaster. Open-rear platform is no longer compatible with the litigation-filled mentality of our society these days either. One day someone will take TfL to court because they injured themselves when jumping off the open platform. Mark my words.

It is a project to satisfy some people's egos. No more, no less. All that money wasted in running this NBFL project could have be invested in converting more conventional diesel buses into "clean" ones or simply buying extra "clean" buses.

 

[455driver]

To be quite honest, I am surprised there arent a long list of claimants already.

 

[Deerfold]

Whats going to happen to them at 10 years old, TfL wont allow buses older than that to be used, hence the Arriva/First Group/Go Ahead 10 year old ex London buses turning up throughout the Country, this over-complicated pile of <cough> wont be wanted/suitable anywhere else.

The main reason that most buses were being replaced at that age was to ensure the fleet became accessible earlier. With that achieved (and less money in the system in these austere times) there are fewer contracts being specified as needing new buses.

This lack of opportunity for cascade does seem to have been the main reason the big groups didn't want to buy Borismasters. It's fairly easy to blcok up a door and put a few extra seats in an ex-London bus. Harder to take out an extra staircase and huge weight.
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One day someone will take TfL to court because they injured themselves when jumping off the open platform. Mark my words.

There were quite a few in the latter days of the Routemaster. The last few running don't tend to go very fast.

 

[Antman]

The NB4L is designed for London so it would be crazy to cascade them elsewhere.

Passengers being able to sue if they fall off an open platform bus is a total myth.

 

[Deerfold]

The NB4L is designed for London so it would be crazy to cascade them elsewhere.

Passengers being able to sue if they fall off an open platform bus is a total myth.

What's specifically better for London about it?

Why does London somehow need a different bus to other large cities?

I'll look up some cases where passengers have sued.

Found a brief reference: http://www.crystalpalacecampaign.org/p148-routemaster.htm

 

[Antman]

The hop on/off open platform buses have been part and parcel of London since time began, maybe more cities should have them.

On the NB4L nobody has to use the open platform, those who think its dangerous can use the front or middle doors.

 

[Deerfold]

The hop on/off open platform buses have been part and parcel of London since time began, maybe more cities should have them.

So its not something special for London? So why does nowhere else seem to want them? Didn't you say it'd be crazy to cascade them elsewhere?

On the NB4L nobody has to use the open platform, those who think its dangerous can use the front or middle doors.

Will that stop people suing if they don't think it's dangerous at the time but change their mind after they fall off?

 

[Antman]

Accidents happen on doored buses as well, just recently I saw somebody fall down the stairs, shall we ban all double deckers?

 

[Deerfold]

Accidents happen on doored buses as well, just recently I saw somebody fall down the stairs, shall we ban all double deckers?

You like changing the subject rather than answering questions, don't you?

As it happens, I think artics were probably the safest (subject to no tight turns and appropriate traffic light timing). There's plenty of those in other cities.

 

[Antman]

Changing the subject? Err, you're the one thats mentioned artics.

 

[Deerfold]

Changing the subject? Err, you're the one thats mentioned artics.

That seemed a logical possible alternative to double deckers.
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The hop on/off open platform buses have been part and parcel of London since time began, maybe more cities should have them.

To go back to this, lots of towns and cities used to have open platform buses - I've certainly caught old buses from places other than London with open platforms. London just kept them for longer than other places as they were pretty much the last place to be able to afford two staff members per bus.

 

[Antman]

Artics are unsuitable for Central London, they would be better used on certain suburban routes.

Anyway Boris promised a new open platform bus in his election manifesto and thats what we've got.

 

[Deerfold]

Artics are unsuitable for Central London, they would be better used on certain suburban routes.

Why are they unsuitable? They seem to work fine in Central Leeds, Central Bradford, Central Sheffield and many cities across Europe.

Anyway Boris promised a new open platform bus in his election manifesto and thats what we've got.

Oh I'm aware of that - but it doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[transmanche]

Why are they unsuitable? They seem to work fine in Central Leeds, Central Bradford, Central Sheffield and many cities across Europe.

Exactly. With deployment on the appropriate routes, with well-trained drivers - and with other road users being more observant - there's nothing wrong with a bendybus.

 

[Antman]

Exactly....appropriate routes ie busy suburban routes but they are totally unsuitable for Central London where they cause chaos at busy stops and delay other routes.

 

[Deerfold]

Exactly....appropriate routes ie busy suburban routes but they are totally unsuitable for Central London where they cause chaos at busy stops and delay other routes.

I still don't understand what's so different about central london.

All the cities I mentioned have bendies going right through the middle of them with no apparent problems.

 

[455driver]

Exactly. With deployment on the appropriate routes, with well-trained drivers - and with other road users being more observant - there's nothing wrong with a bendybus.

That is where your plan falls apart!

Aside-

We had a case where a young girl drowned at a local beach and the parents were blaming it on there being no lifeguards there (out of season), obviously nothing to do with her going into the water or her parents not keeping an eye on her!
People are no longer responsible for their own actions or safety!

 

[Antman]

I still don't understand what's so different about central london.

All the cities I mentioned have bendies going right through the middle of them with no apparent problems.

To counter that I would point out that many towns and.cities in the UK don't have artics and few operatos seem interested in buying the ex London ones even at a knockdown price.

They are slow lumbering things and caused far too much congestion at busy Central London stops.

 

[Mojo]

One of the biggest issues that the bus (i.e. local stage carriage services) industry faces is its image. Buses are seen as unattractive and dated.

As a passenger, the Borismaster is the best vehicle for urban transport which I have ever used; it has decent climate control with cool air conditioning in summer and functioning heating during winter, the seats are comfortable and the ride is smooth and it doesn't start shaking you to death when the bus is stationary.