First Group: General Discussion

[winston270twm]

First Group's share price has broken out of it's current range 92p -100p over the last couple of days as is currently up 2.6% @ 105.9p - Mkt Cap £1.275 Billion still under peer NX Group currently at £1.310 Billion

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Julian Peddle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Peddle) is involved with both companies, the associated Liyell Ltd, (Midland/Choice Travel), sold out to Arriva last year.

He was not the major shareholder in either D & G Bus or in South Lancs Travel, so a contact within the bus and coach industry has informed me this afternoon.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Additionally, D&G have sold much of their original bus business to Arriva which has been absorbed in to Wardle's & only retain the Crewe garage/operation

Do D & G Bus still have any interest in services in the Staffordshire area ?

 

[winston270twm]

Do D & G Bus still have any interest in services in the Staffordshire area ?

Only North Staffordshire from their Crewe depot

http://www.dgbus.co.uk/index.html

 

[WatcherZero]

Finglands story was in the MEN paper today, company said they had been losing over a quarter of a million pounds annually for the last three year and selling the routes, 100 staff and depot lease for a nominal fee was the best way to protect the jobs. The buses will be redeployed to the Yorkshire operations, they havent decided what to do with the 13 staff in the Finglands coach business, they are considering relocating the company.

 

[winston270twm]

Finglands story was in the MEN paper today, company said they had been losing over a quarter of a million pounds annually for the last three year and selling the routes, 100 staff and depot lease for a nominal fee was the best way to protect the jobs. The buses will be redeployed to the Yorkshire operations, they havent decided what to do with the 13 staff in the Finglands coach business, they are considering relocating the company.

What makes First think that they can turn the fortunes of the business around given the state/performance of their own UK bus division?

 

[overthewater]

What makes First think that they can turn the fortunes of the business around given the state/performance of their own UK bus division?

The Manchester business has been improving over the past year, so this bolt on after some minor changes should complement the improvements.

 

[winston270twm]

The Manchester business has been improving over the past year, so this bolt on after some minor changes should complement the improvements.

Finglands in currently loosing £250k on turnover of £3.8 Million

 

[overthewater]

Finglands in currently loosing £250k on turnover of £3.8 Million

I was taking about first. I'm sure first could cut overheads to save £250k a year. Cuts in back office staff, moving everything into first other depots etc..

 

[robertclark125]

It actually has another advantage; they can imrpove some of their existing services, by axing the loss making Finglands route, and use the staff on the existing services, saves recruitment.

 

[markie73]

It actually has another advantage; they can imrpove some of their existing services, by axing the loss making Finglands route, and use the staff on the existing services, saves recruitment.

Does anybody know anything more about First Leicester?, it was rumored that this operation had a uncertain future as well.

 

[MK Tom]

Does anybody know anything more about First Leicester?, it was rumored that this operation had a uncertain future as well.

I was under the impression it was one of the bigger profit-makers.

 

[overthewater]

I have heard its a mix bag, but still where has nothing been done in the city like new livery or network etc.

 

[Qwerty133]

Does anybody know anything more about First Leicester?, it was rumored that this operation had a uncertain future as well.

buses have started to receive the new livery and the alx400s are being refurbished internally.

 

[winston270twm]

I have heard its a mix bag, but still where has nothing been done in the city like new livery or network etc.

I understand from here that it thought to contribute a decent profit to group, but it's fleet / levels of investment doesn't seem to reflect that. The majority of its fleet is now 10-12 years old i.e. W (12) & 51 reg (34) B7TL/ALX400 & 02 reg B7L/Wright Eclipse (21).

I understand First Leicester face quite a bit of competition from both Centrebus & Arriva. I believe a W-reg ALX & more recently a 54 plate Wright Gemini have received the new First colours, but that's it.....

 

[Volvodart]

First have recently appointed a new regional operations director to be based at Leicester.

 

[F Great Eastern]

A boost for First Aircoach in Ireland over the next few days, Dublin Bus are on strike.

Aircoach are now the only company operating services from Dublin Airport to Dublin City since their much bigger competitor has been forced to withdraw all services ran by 950 buses across the entire city due to workers going on strike for an indefinite period over cost cutting plans.

As of late morning it seemed to become obvious that extra capacity was going to be needed, so Aircoach have now resorted to hiring in ex Dublin Bus double deckers to help with the load which as you can imagine, with all other buses in the whole city out of action, is considerable.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/487703...Xrr-fg4Zyi-fg4XaM-fgjbF9-fgjdYN-fg4Z2z-fgjch5

Ironically, the two buses hired by Aircoach, for Sunday and Monday, used to be used on Dublin Airport routes by Dublin bus until they were withdrawn in 2012, still retain a partial Dublin Bus Livery, and are the first time Aircoach has used a bus on scheduled service rather than a coach.

Several FIRST's here.

 

[howittpie]

I notice First Manchester are expanding with purchase of Finglands bus service subjec to OFT approval. This increases competition with Stagecoach and Arriva.

 

[Deerfold]

I notice First Manchester are expanding with purchase of Finglands bus service subjec to OFT approval. This increases competition with Stagecoach and Arriva.

Did you notice the discussion in this thread? (posts #2606 - #2622).

 

[Rich McLean]

Another rumour going round is that just before Christmas, Plymouth CityBus are planning to run a service from Woolwell via Derriford Hospital - Mutley - City Centre - Plymstock - Mountbatton via Goosewell every 10 minutes in direct competition with First 2 in Plymstock and provide a direct link to the Hospital. This is hoped to attract more Plymstock passengers to CityBus services who travel in and out of Plymstock, who will have the option of the 5/5a or the new service

Early planning stages currently, and all depends on how these new routes take off, and how first react.

Lets wait and see if this comes to frutation in a few months. If it does happen, I feel it will be the final nail in the coffin for First South Devon

 

[bb21]

32648 appears to be the second vehicle in Leicester with the new livery, and noted on the 38/88 today.

 

[markie73]

32648 appears to be the second vehicle in Leicester with the new livery, and noted on the 38/88 today.

Apparently both 32629 and 32630 are moving to Leicester when the Northampton operation closes in September, I still wonder why these two Gemini's are still in the fleet given that there will be only two remaining First services in Northampton after this weekend.

 

[overthewater]

Any ideas about the service review taking place in Essex? From late September.

 

[DunsBus]

At last the Perryman's registration for the 60 has appeared. As with First, the service has been registered in two sections with a "guaranteed connection" at Duns.

PB1082425/20 - PERRYMAN'S BUSES LTD T/A PERRYMAN'S BUSES, RAMPARTS BUSINESS PARK, NORTH ROAD, BERWICK ON TWEED, TD15 1TX
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Duns
Finish Point: Berwick Upton Tweed
Via: Chirnside Foulden Eyemouth
Service Number: 60
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 12-AUG-2013
Other Details: Daily
PB1082425/24 - PERRYMAN'S BUSES LTD T/A PERRYMAN'S BUSES, RAMPARTS BUSINESS PARK, NORTH ROAD, BERWICK ON TWEED, TD15 1TX
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Galashiels
Finish Point: Duns
Via: Melrose, Earlston, Greenlaw
Service Number: 60
Service Type: Normal Stopping/Hail & Ride
Effective Date: 12-AUG-2013
Other Details: Daily


First have also got details up of other changes in the Borders too.

Service alterations in the Scottish Borders for the 12 and 19 August 2013

Monday 12 August 2013

There are alterations to a number of services which we operate within the Scottish Borders from the 12 August 2013.

Service 20
Minor amendments to the timetable with the introduction of two journeys. Minor amendment to the route.

Service 60
From this date Perrymans will be operating this service which is financially supported by Scottish Borders Council.

Service 65 and 66
First will no longer be operating these services.

Service 80
Introduction of new tendered timetable which we will operate on behalf of Scottish Borders Council.



From the 19 August the services listed below will be withdrawn.

Service 81 Kelso to Edenside
Service 83 Edenside to Kelso
Service 165 Kelso to Galashiels
Service 166 Kelso to Galashiels
Service 265 St Boswells to Galashiels
Service E08 Kelso to Galashiels

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scotland_east/travel_news/service_updates/?item=8971&conf=0

 

[WatcherZero]

First Group shares up 7p on rumours of a hostile takeover bid at 170p per share from a private equity group that would then break up and sell off the companies US assets.

Responding to growing speculation that a cash-rich private equity player could be about to climb aboard the Aberdeen-based bus and train operator, punters chased FirstGroup 7p higher to 111.9p in active trading.

Rumours of a cash bid in the region of 170p a share did the rounds as dealers took the view it could be possible now that the transport group’s balance sheet is a lot stronger following the recent heavily discounted £615million rights issue at 85p a pop.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2387280/MARKET-REPORT-FirstGroup-track-deal.html

 

[winston270twm]

First Group shares up 7p on rumours of a hostile takeover bid at 170p per share from a private equity group that would then break up and sell off the companies US assets.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2387280/MARKET-REPORT-FirstGroup-track-deal.html

That's exactly what me & others have suggested previously.

170p would do me....

Have to keep an eye on any weekend press speculation

 

[overthewater]

So selling off only the US operations leaving just UK bus with lots of debt how does that work?

 

[michael769]

So selling off only the US operations leaving just UK bus with lots of debt how does that work?

They would also have the real prize - The UK Rail operation.

 

[winston270twm]

So selling off only the US operations leaving just UK bus with lots of debt how does that work?

The proceeds for the sale of the US businesses would be used to pay off the remaining debt, the remainder of First Group may even be cash rich as I would have thought the combined US businesses would fetch more than £2 Billion
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They would also have the real prize - The UK Rail operation.

I'm not so sure the Rail operation is a valuable as you may think, the business does provide high levels of turnover & cash flow, but profit margins are very low. Additionally First Group could easily loose one or even two of the big rail franchises in the next round. NX Group was once a major rail player and now has virtually nothing

For me the US businesses (Student & Transit) & UK bus are the highest value parts of First Group, the businesses are less vulnerable to large losses of work

 

[Volvodart]

Originally Posted by robertclark125 View Post
The decision on whether or not the OFT will clear the takeover of Redditch and Kidderminster depots by Rotala Diamond Bus should be known by Friday.

Now 9 August.

Now delayed again until 16 August.

 

[winston270twm]

Now delayed again until 16 August.

Do you have the case Oft reference? I couldn't find it on there site the other day

It could be because Diamond will have some competition in Redditch from 26th Sept from a new operator

PD1107088/1 - HARDEEP KHAKH T/A CITY LINE TRAVEL, BRITANNIA WORKS, UNIT 2-3, 2-4 BRIDGE STREET SOUTH, SMETHWICK, B66 3DR

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Redditch Bus Station
Finish Point: Redditch Bus Station
Via:
Service Number: 57
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 26-SEP-2013
Other Details: Mondays to Saturdays.