Questions about driving trains.

[142094]

Also it relates to the braking question. In TS you can get away with speeding along and braking in high steps quite late. I suppose this is why you seem to get to some stations early. Because in real life it would take longer to get there due to the more gradual braking in step 1?

Professional driving policies normally state brake early and often, using cadence braking. Going in fast and in full service means if you get wheelslide, you have no more brake steps to use, and you shoot past the platform and risk a SPaD.

 

[Temple Meads]

Is driving at night more difficult than in the daytime? Do you find that your driving style varies at different times of the day, or is it always the same regardless?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is driving at night more difficult than in the daytime? Do you find that your driving style varies at different times of the day, or is it always the same regardless?

It's different, not more difficult in my opinion. Difficulty can arise if there are parts of the routes you sign that you can go months without seeing in the dark (which can be the case at the places furthest from your home depot which you only tend to see in the middle of a shift, certainly on passenger work) because a place can look completely different when the sun has gone down. I tend to try and use landmarks as close to the running line as possible so darkness or fog are as minor an obstacle as possible.

 

[A-driver]

In response to the questions about long trains coasting through neutral sections, when the VCB opens on a train a light comes on in the cab. When you pass through a N/S the VCB is opened. Therefore you judge when to shut power off depending on speed and count the VCB light illuminating the correct number of times. So if you have a 12 car 313 on a set of empties you have 4 pans so count the VCB lighting up 4 times. Once it has gone out for the 4th time you can re-apply power.

 

[Yew]

Myself, i prefer the DVT end. A much more satisfying sound.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Class 67 Desk



DVT Desk

Is it confusing going to the other end of the same train, and being in a completely era?

My uncle worked on Turbo and Electrostars, He preferred 168's as he was an electrician, so could turn the engines on in winter to keep warm, whereas it was unsafe on electros. He also did some stuff on the Eurostar

Its nice to see Drivers and Enthusiasts getting along well too

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is it confusing going to the other end of the same train, and being in a completely era?

Why would it be? Again, it's different but you are expecting it to be different. The "but it's the same train" thing is neither here nor there, it's a different cab environment and some of the controls behave quite differently but it's no bigger leap than going from a DMU into a 67.

 

[david_VI]

Professional driving policies normally state brake early and often, using cadence braking. Going in fast and in full service means if you get wheelslide, you have no more brake steps to use, and you shoot past the platform and risk a SPaD.

No idea about TS but I wouldn't want to approach a station i'm booked to stop at with last minute step 3 braking. There's nothing in reserve if you start to slide/the unit doesn't have great brakes etc and it would be more uncomfortable for the passengers (and my trousers).

I suppose you could liken it to stopping at red traffic lights in a car. In theory you could speed right up and slam the anchors on last minute. You would still stop in time but there's no need to drive your car like this because you can't leave until the lights change (or when driving the train, until your booked time to depart).

I'm think there's a mention in our new driving policy (or somewhere) about not hurrying into stations where there is a couple of minutes wait time if you're on time, as they reckon sitting there for two minutes waiting for your booked time might upset the punters.

Thanks .
Makes sense! Is it usually step 1 depending on the traction? Because in some locomotives the first step is incredibly weak, I assume it's for slowing on hills and getting the brakes started?

When watching videos or when i've happened to see a driver on a preserved line or national rail i've noticed a lot of moving the brakes on and off in quick succession. Is this to get a gradual stop and fine tune your speed?

Thanks all

 

[headshot119]

Preserved lines will tend to be vacuum braked stock, which don't work the same way as air brakes.

You basically have three positions. On, Lap, Off.

The further into On you place the handle the faster the brakes are coming on.
Lap holds the brakes in the position you have selected in On.
The further into Off you place the handle the faster the brakes come off.

So you can "fan" the brakes. You usually aim to have the brakes coming off as you come to a stand to prevent the train jerking.

 

[david_VI]

Preserved lines will tend to be vacuum braked stock, which don't work the same way as air brakes.

You basically have three positions. On, Lap, Off.

The further into On you place the handle the faster the brakes are coming on.
Lap holds the brakes in the position you have selected in On.
The further into Off you place the handle the faster the brakes come off.

So you can "fan" the brakes. You usually aim to have the brakes coming off as you come to a stand to prevent the train jerking.

Ah yes, of course! Makes sense.

Is driving a train like a car in the way that when you brake you take off the brake last second and re-apply it to get a smooth stop without a jerk?

So do you have step 1 on until you come to the stop or do you release and coast partially before re-applying?

 

[driver9000]

Ah yes, of course! Makes sense.

Is driving a train like a car in the way that when you brake you take off the brake last second and re-apply it to get a smooth stop without a jerk?

So do you have step 1 on until you come to the stop or do you release and coast partially before re-applying?

The general stance with tread brake is to release the brake as the train is about to stop and reapply it as it stops to avoid a jolt. With disc brake stock the jolt tends to be softer so it's not so noticeable if you bring the train to a stand in step 1. Your experience and knowledge of how the brake works helps you judge when to make the final release but when working disc brakes I sometimes release the brake just before stopping.

 

[DDB]

How do you do a hill start with a train? Do you use the brake and take power at the same time?

DDB

 

[Rich McLean]

How do you do a hill start with a train? Do you use the brake and take power at the same time?

DDB

On stock with a dual break and power handle (DMU's), there is a hill start button, like what you see on an automatic gear level in a car.

By holding the button it while taking power, you are keeping the breaks on while the revs build up, then release the button and the train will start to move.

On stock with separate break and throttle level, you would leave the break in initial (or step 1), while taking power (Notch 3 in a sprinter, Notch 1 in an HST), then release break once the revs are up. Other stock my vary slightly.

Example of a HST hill start (minus the buzzers from the guard)
Break still applied in Step 1 (initial)
(RA Given)
Notch 1 (power handle)
Wait for amps to rise
Release break
Await for train to start moving
Notch 2

Hope that helps

 

[A-driver]

Is driving a train like a car in the way that when you brake you take off the brake last second and re-apply it to get a smooth stop without a jerk?

So do you have step 1 on until you come to the stop or do you release and coast partially before re-applying?

To be honest I find it depends on the type of work you are doing. If on suburban/metro work when stopping every 2 mins I tend not to bother, it takes too long and to be honest as far as the passengers are concerned they just want to get to their destination as fast as possible. A small jolt as you stop still in step 1 or occasionally step 2 isn't going to be that noticeable-it's not like there are crystal chandlers hanging through the coaches with people trying to eat soup on silver service dining cars. Same with taking power-on a 313 I tend to go power 1, brake off, straight to power 4 to give you the fast run up (basically max acceleration). You can try and smooth it out but then you end up running late and trying to get perfectly smooth stops or starts 18 times in a 50 min journey (on your 6th trip that day whilst on your way home) is incredibly tedious and, as I say above , somewhat pointless.

On longer distance work or things like Cambridge cruisers etc I am much more gentle with applying power, braking and try my best to remove the 'jolt' when stopping, although not always possible with 365s. 377s are very easy to stop and start without any jolt, as are 317s.

Obviously one thing to be very careful of when trying to smooth the stop is that if the gradient is against you you don't roll back or worse still, fail to reapply the brake once the train has come to a stand as then you can end up rolling with the doors open (happened recently to a colleague).

 

[headshot119]

Question for anyone who drives 142s.

How do you start away from a station on the flat? When I drove a 141 I was taught to have the brake in step 1, power handle in notch 4, wait to feel it wanting to move, then move the brake to release.

 

[alex17595]

How do you know what signal to use when there are many or on a corner?


Is it just route knowledge?

 

[455driver]

Question for anyone who drives 142s.

How do you start away from a station on the flat? When I drove a 141 I was taught to have the brake in step 1, power handle in notch 4, wait to feel it wanting to move, then move the brake to release.

Pretty much the same for all second generation DMUs although notch 4 is a bit high, 2 is the normal notch used.

 

[A-driver]

How do you know what signal to use when there are many or on a corner?


Is it just route knowledge?

Route knowledge. You know where they all are and places like London bridge where there are (well literally!) thousands across you learn which are yours.

 

[driver_m]

I have a question that has been rolling around in my mind for a while:

I have often wondered how/if driving style changes when driving a train from a DVT as compared with a locomotive? Is the control layout the same in the DVT as on the locomotive? Which "end" do you prefer driving from?

Bear with me as I've not signed them since 2005 so I'm certainly no expert on them, but the drive varied on whether there was a 90 or an 87 on the other end, a 90/DVT combo was fairly similar at either end, as they shared the same sort of cab layout and were designed to work as a pair whereas the older ac's were altered to enable them to work together. They had a speedset on them but as they had varying max speeds, a 90 could be left open and it wouldn't go over 110, whereas the 125mph capable DVT would, I was always told it caused a snatchy ride if the DVT was set to 110 so never tried it. Opening up a DVT was ideally done slowly, but the power could be put to full without fear of overloading the 90.

If an 86/87 was on the back you had to take power in stages as they would overload unlike a 90, you had to effectively tap up like on an 87 (just with a small handle instead of a huge crank.) The DVT's had unoffical notches put on them to find the optimum level for taking power as there was no way to view the ammeter to see if you were in green/yellow/red.

Braking again varied, a 90 could have its power shut off pretty quickly, whereas the older ac's wanted to be tapped down for an optimum ride and that would be replicated in the DVT, though passenger comfort would take second place if you got an unexpected 2 yellow signal for instance. The brakes weren't too bad as long as you had mark 3 coaches, mark 2's were too 'variable.' (A pendo's brakes make them look like relics from the victorian era though.)

My honest preference was for an 87 as it was so involving to drive. Mainly just just trying to keep a steady speed by adding or knocking off a notch or two on the tapchanger and after a drive north (they were usually always at the North end) you felt like you'd really worked a shift. I also liked the 90 as long as it wasn't raining, they were an absolute pig to get going in rain.

The main advantage of the DVT was the fact you could get a brew brought through! In summer the cab cooling in a DVT was a big advantage against being in an 86/87 too.

 

[jopsuk]

How do you know what signal to use when there are many or on a corner?


Is it just route knowledge?

I'm just a passenger, but some locations (eg Paddington approaches) have signs on the gantry to make it obvious

 

[Eagle]

I'm just a passenger, but some locations (eg Paddington approaches) have signs on the gantry to make it obvious

Also common on the lines out of Waterloo, where the signals will have plates under them saying "DMS" (Down Main Slow), "WR" (Windsor Reversible) and the like.

 

[Beveridges]

Question for anyone who drives 142s.

How do you start away from a station on the flat? When I drove a 141 I was taught to have the brake in step 1, power handle in notch 4, wait to feel it wanting to move, then move the brake to release.

Yes that's exactly correct although you don't have to use notch 4 you can use any notch although taking full power straight away will often cause wheelslip on these cr%p units!

 

[RPM]

I'm just a passenger, but some locations (eg Paddington approaches) have signs on the gantry to make it obvious

And much appreciated they are too - especially by those of us who do the Chiltern "parly" and thus only go into PAD a handful of times a year. Without those line numbers it would be brown trousers time

 

[Goldfish62]

I have a question re 3-step air brakes. There's a BR video on YouTube from the late 1980's demonstrating the correct braking technique for station stops. Basically, at the recognised braking point Step 3 (full service) was selected and only released to 2 or 1 as the train entered the platform and as it was coming to a halt in order to reduce recoil.

Am I right in thinking that with today's defensive driving techniques this full-on braking as the norm is not encouraged?

 

[notadriver]

I have a question re 3-step air brakes. There's a BR video on YouTube from the late 1980's demonstrating the correct braking technique for station stops. Basically, at the recognised braking point Step 3 (full service) was selected and only released to 2 or 1 as the train entered the platform and as it was coming to a halt in order to reduce recoil.

Am I right in thinking that with today's defensive driving techniques this full-on braking as the norm is not encouraged?

That's correct.

 

[W230]

We're encouraged to make our initial brake application in step 2. Step 1 is then used as required with maybe more step 2 or maybe not.

 

[A-driver]

It's always satisfying when you put it into step 1 or 2 and manage to stop perfectly at the mirror or monitor without adjusting it at all. Of course it's generally more luck than judgement but I always get very excited and oddly proud when it happens- never happens whilst anyone else is in the cab with me though sadly...

 

[eman_resu]

Its interesting reading about the braking characteristics and techniques employed nowadays.

Way back when when I was starting out in S&T and learning about signal positioning and temporary speed restrictions, we were taught that there would be, typically, two distinct brake applications. Our standard speed limit / braking distance / gradient charts even showed the curves.

The first described as 'Bringing the train under control' {the books words, with an acknowledgement that the train is already under control}, effectively an initial brake application to start the deceleration, and then a second application to actually stop the train.

Anyhow, I also have a question for the loco drivers, when you double heading on the likes of 37's. 47's etc, and are using the old Blue Star (as an example) types of control compatibility, can you start all the engines from the driving cab, or does each engine need starting individually from each loco?

Cheers

 

[Welshman]

I appreciate that on today's railway, signal-sighting in foggy conditions is not as much of a problem as in the days of semaphore signalling and detonators, but I would imagine driving blindly at full line speed through thick fog with little visibility must still call for a strong nerve and full confidence in the system. How do drivers prepare themselves, psychologically, to cope with that?

 

[A-driver]

I appreciate that on today's railway, signal-sighting in foggy conditions is not as much of a problem as in the days of semaphore signalling and detonators, but I would imagine driving blindly at full line speed through thick fog with little visibility must still call for a strong nerve and full confidence in the system. How do drivers prepare themselves, psychologically, to cope with that?

Can't say I have ever given it a second thought really. Just get on with it. I know the routes well enough to rely on other things to tell where I am and if I loose my bearings at all I just bring the speed right down until I know where I am.

 

[notadriver]

As A-Driver says route knowledge is the key. On the road you should drive to the conditions - I say should because speaking to a few car drivers they reckoned doing 90 in near zero visibility was okay as they had quick reactions (!!). But it is an experience doing that speed in really thick fog. I've heard stories in the old days when cab rides were not uncommon that guests were too scared to sit up front with the driver (!)