Todmorden Curve

[CalderRail]

The police weren't checking tickets or anything when I was there. I think they were waiting for warnings from officers further down the line.

 

[Sox]

Bit of a War and Peace but from page 35 of the link below:

Todmorden West Curve

Burnley Borough Council recently made a successful bid to
the Regional Growth Fund to secure the funding needed for
the re-instatement of the Todmorden West Curve. The reinstatement
of this 500 metre length of track will allow a
direct service from Burnley to Manchester.
The new train service will provide an hourly service between
Manchester and Blackburn via Todmorden, Burnley and
Accrington 7 days a week. The service is currently planned
to start in December 2014. Initially journey times between
Burnley and Manchester will average about 55 minutes but a
further timetable change in Dec 2016 will see this reduced to
nearer 45 minutes.

and...

Manchester Road Station Upgrade, Burnley

Manchester Road railway station is undergoing a major
redevelopment ahead of the introduction of a direct train
service to Manchester from December 2014. The re-instated
Todmorden West Curve will make this possible. The scheme
comprises:

• A new railway station building which will introduce manned ticket facilities;
• New platform waiting shelters to both platform 1 & 2;
• Improved entrance for pedestrian use of Manchester Road;
• New cycle parking provision; and
• New car parking to provide 50 spaces and 4 new DDA parking spaces.

...also, page 36, some stuff on the Clitheroe-Manchester line.

...and, page 38, railway mania returns to to rest of east Lancashire!

http://council.lancashire.gov.uk/documents/s29383/Appendix%20A.pdf

 

[Signal Head]

A few pics of recent progress

New crossover being built up:

Two shots of the curve, seen from the Stansfield Hall end:

 

[YorkshireBear]

A few pics of recent progress

New crossover being built up:

Two shots of the curve, seen from the Stansfield Hall end:

Seem to not be attached.

 

[Signal Head]

Seem to not be attached.

They're linked from a forum album, not attachments as such. Album is set to 'public'. The FAQ suggests this should work OK.

I can see them, even if I'm not logged in, and I can paste the url into FireFox and the image loads. However, they didn't show up in IE at all until I logged in in that, but now they show up in that too, even though I've logged out.
Curious. Anyone any ideas so I can fix it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Seem to not be attached.

I too have no sight of these.

 

[dysonsphere]

I cant see them either and I'm using Firefox

 

[northwichcat]

Just to add the chord is expected to be operational in February 2014 according to TfGM but the only change that can be made in the May 2014 timetable is a Manchester-Rochdale service can be extended to Todmorden only (reversing on the chord) as there will not be rolling stock available to run a Manchester-Burnley service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just to add the chord is expected to be operational in February 2014 according to TfGM but the only change that can be made in the May 2014 timetable is a Manchester-Rochdale service can be extended to Todmorden only (reversing on the chord) as there will not be rolling stock available to run a Manchester-Burnley service.

Surely the matter of the rolling stock availability was one that should have been an integral part of the preliminary discussions that took place between all affected partners in the bid for the funding that also included the refurbishment works of the Weavers Triangle. If so, Northern Rail, knowing the exact position of rolling stock availability, have been less than honest with the bid application team in charge with the bid submission.

Could part of the successful bid money grant now be clawed-back as a result of this show of total ineptitude by Northern Rail ?

 

[bluenoxid]

Surely the matter of the rolling stock availability was one that should have been an integral part of the preliminary discussions that took place between all affected partners in the bid for the funding that also included the refurbishment works of the Weavers Triangle. If so, Northern Rail, knowing the exact position of rolling stock availability, have been less than honest with the bid application team in charge with the bid submission.

Could part of the successful bid money grant now be clawed-back as a result of this show of total ineptitude by Northern Rail ?

Might be worth shooting a few letters at local MP's who I'm sure will be very interested at the total ineptitude of the governments UK Rolling Stock policy.

I'm not being funny here but is there anything that can be done to release a unit. When is the Cumbernauld route due? I know it's Scotland and they just seem to be a blackhole for railway units but surely something can be wedged out and cascaded on a short term loan until Manchester to Liverpool is completed.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm not being funny here but is there anything that can be done to release a unit. When is the Cumbernauld route due? I know it's Scotland and they just seem to be a blackhole for railway units but surely something can be wedged out and cascaded on a short term loan until Manchester to Liverpool is completed.

I posted a thread here on the May 2014 timetable changes: http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91240 From the linked TfGM report it looks like Northern will be stretching their existing fleet even further to add capacity to the Bolton corridor. They'll be Blackpool-Huddersfield services in one direction only and Huddersfield-Wigan again in one direction only which looks like they are trying to reduce turnaround times to free up a unit.

 

[HowardGWR]

They're linked from a forum album, not attachments as such. Album is set to 'public'. The FAQ suggests this should work OK.

I can see them, even if I'm not logged in, and I can paste the url into FireFox and the image loads. However, they didn't show up in IE at all until I logged in in that, but now they show up in that too, even though I've logged out.
Curious. Anyone any ideas so I can fix it?

I can't see anything in Albums, just the Rugby SB construction. (am a Chrome user).

Why not write to mods and ask them please?

 

[northwichcat]

If so, Northern Rail, knowing the exact position of rolling stock availability, have been less than honest with the bid application team in charge with the bid submission.

Could part of the successful bid money grant now be clawed-back as a result of this show of total ineptitude by Northern Rail ?

In fairness Northern Rail haven't had a signed off franchise extension beyond May 2014 and one thing Northern and DfT have to agree on is when extra rolling stock will arrive and how much will arrive.

 

[Signal Head]

I cant see them either and I'm using Firefox

As far as I can tell I've done everything right, this is from the FAQ:


"How do I add an image to a post?

To include an image that is not uploaded as an attachment and is located on another website, you can do so by copying the full URL to the image, (not the page on which the image is located), and either pressing the 'Insert Image' icon or by typing

after it, ensuring that you do not have any spaces before or after the URL of the image. You can insert pictures from your albums in this way too."

The bit I've quoted in italics line covers what I am trying to do, so something appears to be broken, it's not doing what it says on the tin.

I'll try again in a while, but with attachments this time.

 

[Signal Head]

A few pics of recent progress

New crossover being built up:


Two shots of the curve, seen from the Stansfield Hall end:

 

[spongsdad]

A few pics of recent progress

New crossover being built up:
View attachment 16300

Two shots of the curve, seen from the Stansfield Hall end:
View attachment 16301

View attachment 16302

Thanks for these views and for making the effort to upload them. It looks as though we will have a new rail link and a newly refurbished railway station but no vehicles in the train set. This doesn't seem to be a prime example of forward planning. Perhaps we can have a computer simulation and some virtual trains.ad:

 

[Silv1983]

I would suggest that the biggest problem facing the Tod curve is where and when will the trains, staff and pathing be agreed / sourced.... because at the moment... 5 months away... no-one seems to have bothered to plan for it.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes not having stock is bad. But personally the biggest always appears to be funding for the new track! Once it is in, it will be used eventually. I think they all knew stock was going to be December 14 (in line with the Manchester-Liverpool Electrification) it just needed to be built before someone took away the funding!


While someone is willing to pay for something get it built, because it doesn't take long for them to change their mind.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In fairness Northern Rail haven't had a signed off franchise extension beyond May 2014 and one thing Northern and DfT have to agree on is when extra rolling stock will arrive and how much will arrive.

Fine...In that case honesty should have been the best course of action for Northern Rail in all their preliminary discussions with the bid organisation.

What the hell is the use of the chord without the rolling stock to run services over it...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Fine...In that case honesty should have been the best course of action for Northern Rail in all their preliminary discussions with the bid organisation.

What the hell is the use of the chord without the rolling stock to run services over it...

Read my above.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Read my above.

This I already had done, but the promise of "jam tomorrow" was not what was in the mind of those who were responsible for making the award of the bid monies, part of which paid for the reinstatement of the Todmorden Chord.

Nor, I should well imagine, will the news be well received by those prospective rail passengers who were waiting to use this service. I should imagine much in the way of column inches being written by newspapers local to the area and many pronouncements being made by councillors and local dignitaries affected by this matter. Northern Rail will not come out of this matter with its reputation enhanced.

However, much joy and rejoicing is now expected from the operators of the ubiquitous X43 Lancashire Witch bus service from Nelson/Burnley to Manchester that has seating quality that a Class 142 Pacer unit can only dream about in its evening slumbers at the home of all such monstrosities that goes by the name of Newton Heath.

 

[WatcherZero]

Northern Rail arent really that involved in infrastructure decisions for new lines. Thats the domain of local councils/PTE's to identify a need and commision feasability studies, Network Rail/consultants to do the study and the construction work and the Government to approve or reject the business case. They will normally have an outline service plan in the business case but deciding on a timetable and sourcing stock comes later.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Northern Rail aren't really that involved in infrastructure decisions for new lines. Thats the domain of local councils/PTE's to identify a need and commission feasibility studies, Network Rail/consultants to do the study and the construction work and the Government to approve or reject the business case. They will normally have an outline service plan in the business case but deciding on a timetable and sourcing stock comes later.

Of course, but in this very specific case, we are discussing a project that a bid submission was put forward, not just for rail, but also included the refurbishment of the Weavers Triangle in Burnley and in total, something that would enhance this area of East Lancashire. It is important to view matters in this light

If, as it seems likely, there will be a problem with Northern Rail having the rolling stock to run this service, it was incumbent upon them to cause the bid submission to have this matter clearly stated in the text of the bid document for all to see whose responsibility it was to vet all the bid applications to them and this may well have led to another project being awarded the bid monies that were there for the successful bidder.

 

[edwin_m]

I would suggest that the biggest problem facing the Tod curve is where and when will the trains, staff and pathing be agreed / sourced.... because at the moment... 5 months away... no-one seems to have bothered to plan for it.

The paths are in the timetable, as mentioned the train will turn back at Todmorden until stock is available.

Can't speak for the staff but I imagine it is not a big problem to recruit and train up some more given six months notice.

When this was being planned there was an expectation that trains would become available in roughly the correct timescales, either due to DfT's DMU order or later as a result of cascades triggered by DfT's Thameslink order. Neither of these has happened as expected - does anyone see a common factor?

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Why not get the extra unit/s by:
1. Covering Tyne Valley services with Scotrail 156s (if available)
2. Letting DRS out to play on the Cumbrian coast with a loco-hauled rake
3. Hiring in a heritage unit for a self-contained route such as Preston to Ormskirk or the Barton on Humber branch.

 

[northwichcat]

When this was being planned there was an expectation that trains would become available in roughly the correct timescales, either due to DfT's DMU order or later as a result of cascades triggered by DfT's Thameslink order. Neither of these has happened as expected - does anyone see a common factor?

In the past stock has been sourced to allow for extra units being required:
1. When First TPE took over and introduced a completly new timetable they loaned 2 x 158s off FNW who took on a loco-hauled set to cover for the absence of 2 x 158s. They later returned the FNW 158s and loaned 158s off Central until the new trains were introduced.
2. In the absence of cascaded 150s being available for Northern to use in the December 08 timetable change they subleased 3 x 180s.

 

[Eagle]

1. Covering Tyne Valley services with Scotrail 156s (if available)

Cumbernauld electrification might free up one or two 156s.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

I was thinking that.

And at least one of the Tyne Valley services is already a joint effort with Scotrail.

Another possibility - is there enough slack in Neville Hill's EMU fleet to release one to shuttle to Morpeth from Newcastle?

 

[Eagle]

Wouldn't work without redoing the timetable, as most Morpeth to Newcastle services continue to Metrocentre, or further down the Tyne Valley.

Also there won't be any Northern drivers in that part of the country who sign any EMUs.

 

[natureboy]

If NR don't currently have enough rolling stock for the new service via the Todmorden curve, why don't they simply hire or borrow them from another TOC? Simples!

Longer term buy NEW!