Eagle
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Other TOCs don't have enough suitable stock to be renting them out.
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Todmorden Curve
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Other TOCs don't have enough suitable stock to be renting them out.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think the units displaced from Cumbernauld remain in Scotland to strengthen other routes during the Commonwealth Games.
Preston to Ormskirk is not a self-contained route, it shares track with the WCML into Preston. There are very few truly self-contained routes where a heritage DMU could operate today.
A loco-hauled set could in principle be hired in but Northern would need reimbursing not only for the hire changes and extra track access but also for the considerable cost of training up enough crews to use it (or hiring in same from other operators).
I'd be interested to hear of any TOC which has spare DMUs or any DMUs that are off lease. The view around the industry is that every DMU is in use somewhere.
New DMUs would not be deliverable in a six-month timescale unless there was a production line already running and with spare capacity. That hasn't been the case since the heyday of Turbostar production over a decade ago. It's highly unlikely that any more will be built for UK use until it is demonstrably impossible to life-extend the existing fleet any further, which is at least a decade off in my view.
Preston to Ormskirk is not a self-contained route, it shares track with the WCML into Preston. There are very few truly self-contained routes where a heritage DMU could operate today.
A loco-hauled set could in principle be hired in but Northern would need reimbursing not only for the hire changes and extra track access but also for the considerable cost of training up enough crews to use it (or hiring in same from other operators).
I'd be interested to hear of any TOC which has spare DMUs or any DMUs that are off lease. The view around the industry is that every DMU is in use somewhere.
New DMUs would not be deliverable in a six-month timescale unless there was a production line already running and with spare capacity. That hasn't been the case since the heyday of Turbostar production over a decade ago. It's highly unlikely that any more will be built for UK use until it is demonstrably impossible to life-extend the existing fleet any further, which is at least a decade off in my view.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Can I draw that attention of forum members to the very first posting on this thread, which is an article by the Lancashire Telegraph.
I wonder if that newspaper has any inkling of the current rolling stock problems and how Northern Rail are approaching the problem ?
I wonder if that newspaper has any inkling of the current rolling stock problems and how Northern Rail are approaching the problem ?
nigpark222
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Thanks very much for pictures. I tried a few weeks ago at Todmorden end whislt passing on train to Victoria but failed miserably, just trees
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The old adage of "Fur coat and no knickers" had suddenly sprang to mind when re-read your posting...
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
You sound far more sure of the stock availability than other posters. How many months will the Rochdale extended service be terminating at Todmorden and reversing on the new chord ? Does the idea of the disembarking at Todmorden to board rail replacement buses to enable the continuance of journeys onwards from Todmorden to Burnley, Accrington and Blackburn seem something that will encourage prospective rail travellers to travel this way until December 2014 ?
May 2014 to December 2014 is seven months by my reckoning, which added to the fact that May 2014 is still some way off, the much flaunted publicity that this line will invigorate the available transport modes in that area of East Lancashire now seems very hollow.
No-one seems at all bothered about the raison d'etre for the Todmorden Chord which is the rail transportation of paying passengers from the Blackburn/Accrington/Burnley area in the Manchester conurbation. Much as the infrastructural and engineering qualities of the Todmorden Chord are good in their own respect, they are just something to facilitate the rail travel.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
I've emailed a link to the TfGM report to the Lancashire Telegraph alongside a brief summary of the situation.
The Burnley Express is now reporting the shortage of rolling stock for the new service. See this link http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/...morden-curve-rail-link-faces-delays-1-6175687
YorkshireBear
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I think someone from here sent them the info!
Nowt like publicising a bad situation to ensure we don't get funding for projects in future. :roll:
And yes i am being cynical.
Nowt like publicising a bad situation to ensure we don't get funding for projects in future. :roll:
And yes i am being cynical.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are you making reference to posting # 608 on this thread ?
YorkshireBear
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Yes :P but it was a cynical tongue in cheek comment.
Probably incorrect anyway. If Lancashire Telegraph were notified as per #608, I would be pretty certain that they weren't passing such info to The Burnley Express. They tend to be keen rivals and I haven't seen any reference to rolling stock delays in the Lancashire Telegraph.
For what it's worth, I think it right that the Press should know about the delays in implementing this service. Heaven knows, East Lancashire has been a railway backwater for long enough now, without having to endure a further hold up to an important link to Manchester. Meanwhile it is rumoured that the X43 Witch Way service is ordering new buses for their service. If true, it confirms that they are not going to let the grass grow under their feet.
For what it's worth, I think it right that the Press should know about the delays in implementing this service. Heaven knows, East Lancashire has been a railway backwater for long enough now, without having to endure a further hold up to an important link to Manchester. Meanwhile it is rumoured that the X43 Witch Way service is ordering new buses for their service. If true, it confirms that they are not going to let the grass grow under their feet.
Signal Head
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There will be a huge uproar if the 2nd stage of NW electrification is completed without any emu's to run it. (Think Todmorden Curve several times over in terms of bad PR.) So, that will release at least a dozen dmu's, which it's inconceivable will not result in a couple staying with the same TOC to run the services to Burnley.
Where are these emu's going to come from? Well, there are still several Class 317's off lease, so the argument "there aren't any units" isn't tenable.
Darren R
Established Member
Perhaps some publicity on the unavailability of units is what we need though. Perhaps the innevitable local political furore that will ensue will result in sufficient pressure being applied to the DfT to come up with something. I know that nationally we are not exactly awash with unused DMUs, but it only needs three units to provide an hourly service to Blackburn. Surely, between all the TOCs, the DfT can manage to sort out three to go on loan to Northern for seven months. This would allow the service to start with the May 2014 timetable, bridging the gap until December 2014 when Northern say they will be able to do it themselves.
Even if that means 142s!
The Lancashire Telegraph article also says:
The station isn't being re-sited is it? I thought it was being rebuilt on its present site?
Even if that means 142s!
The Lancashire Telegraph article also says:
The station isn't being re-sited is it? I thought it was being rebuilt on its present site?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Since the storyline now appears in both the Burnley Express and the Lancashire Telegraph, are those two newspapers part of the same news circulation group ?
D841 Roebuck
Established Member
Probably just copied it from here.
As for stock - is the preserved Hastings DEMU still main line registered? That would be rather rateable thumping its way up Copy Pit.
As for stock - is the preserved Hastings DEMU still main line registered? That would be rather rateable thumping its way up Copy Pit.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
In an idle moment, I recalled that for a short-term lease period during their current franchise, Northern Rail did take possession of three class 180 units, which I remember running on the Hazel Grove to Preston service.
Is there any chance of a similar short-term lease of any units deemed suitable enough in quantity and width clearance to run the proposed service after the May 2014 period when the Holme tunnel on the Copy Pit line would be returned to a safer profile.
Is there any chance of a similar short-term lease of any units deemed suitable enough in quantity and width clearance to run the proposed service after the May 2014 period when the Holme tunnel on the Copy Pit line would be returned to a safer profile.
WatcherZero
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No, Burnley is Johnston press the Scottish newspaper group that owns dozens of local papers and the Scotsman and Yorkshire Post 'national' newspapers. Lancashire is owned by Gannet, an American group (formerly the independent Scottish Media Group) that owns several large US newspapers notably USA Today and has about 300 British local papers most notably the Evening Times and The Herald in Glasgow.
However a freelance writer could easily have sold the same story to both papers.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
They would have to find some rolling stock from somewhere in order to compete, in order to do this. Transdev must be absolutely delighted with the news that has just been featured in two of the local area newspapers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Has anyone any updated news upon this aspirational item from almost two years ago ?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The Lancashire Telegraph quote a councillor called Julie Cooper as do the Burnley Express so she seems to be the link between the two articles.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you look at the Lancashire Telegraph quote from Northern Rail they aren't even committing to December 14 at the moment
mirodo
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The dairy buildings are adjacent to the current site. I think the land may have been part of the original station site when it was built.
YorkshireBear
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The 377 orders down south are progressing quite well so i hope, pray almost, that there will be EMUs available. Could do without another stage of electrification with no EMUs at the start.
Eagle
Established Member
The ITT document for the new TSGN franchise states that six 319/3s (four-car) will have already been cascaded by the time the new franchise starts in September 2014.
It's generally assumed that means they're going to Northern to work the Chat Moss services, freeing up DMUs.
It's generally assumed that means they're going to Northern to work the Chat Moss services, freeing up DMUs.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I hope more follow soon after as 6 units is a lot less than what will be needed for the current Chat Moss services, not allowing for the fact that the Victoria-Liverpool stopper is supposed to go half-hourly all day.
Although, some units arriving in September will allow crew training and clearance to be dealt with before the December timetable change.
Eagle
Established Member
There are also eight 317/7s yet to be accounted for (not counting the one Bombardier are tinkering with), although they're currently in cold storage.
YorkshireBear
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Interesting i hadn't picked up on that yet. 6 Should hopefully be enough to allow units to run around the curve.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Those dairy buildings that you allude to were established on the station site as a dairy storage and distribution facility when the station was closed in the autumn period of 1961.
Eagle
Established Member
Reading further, the date that FCC will cascade them is given as May, which should be ample time to get them ready for service with Northern by December.
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