Gateline staff - Leeds station.

[Deerfold]

I'd be curious to know what West Yorkshire Fire And Rescue Service and/or the Fire Brigades Union have to say about this practice as in the event of a fire that cuts the electrical supply to the gates how the heck is anyone getting out if they are unattended?
The sensor won't work and depending on the location of the fire staff might be unable to physically get to the barriers :-?

I suspect in the case of a power failure they will probably no longer be held securely in place, though I could be wrong. They're an unusual design of gate.

 

[tsr]

I suspect in the case of a power failure they will probably no longer be held securely in place, though I could be wrong. They're an unusual design of gate.

They most likely would open in a power failure or during an automatic (i.e. fire-alarm-led) evacuation of the building. I can't recall ever seeing any which aren't failsafe, apart from manual gates, but I may be wrong, I suppose!

The "sensor" may not be there - is there the possibility that a member of staff is monitoring it remotely and is just using a touchscreen panel to select the gate(s) you're near, in order to allow you through without hassle?

 

[Deerfold]

They most likely would open in a power failure or during an automatic (i.e. fire-alarm-led) evacuation of the building. I can't recall ever seeing any which aren't failsafe, apart from manual gates, but I may be wrong, I suppose!

The "sensor" may not be there - is there the possibility that a member of staff is monitoring it remotely and is just using a touchscreen panel to select the gate(s) you're near, in order to allow you through without hassle?

I've had to walk the length of the gateline and the end gate opened - unless that's the only one they can open remotely. Seems odd to not just leave it open given they didn't check my ticket.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Leeds gateline rarely accepts valid tickets, nothing changes. It ticks all of the DfT's boxes, so they're happy, and there's no effective regulator or passenger watchdog who can see that the situation is farcical and do anything about it.

Sometimes a ticket will work the barrier, and when that happens I am rather surprised.

Gatelines must not be left in operation if unattended, they must leave at least some gates open. If that happens the matter should be reported.

Let us know what response you get, and if it's not good enough I suggest escalating it (I'm not sure if such a breach of Health & Safety should go to the ORR or DfT: anyone know?)

I did report it, and nothing whatsoever came back.

 

[tsr]

I've had to walk the length of the gateline and the end gate opened - unless that's the only one they can open remotely. Seems odd to not just leave it open given they didn't check my ticket.

I can't quite work out from what you've written if you expected that particular gate to open (forgive me if I've missed something!). Perhaps if you walk up looking like you need to catch a train, they'll notice you, realise you're not drunk or doing something suspicious (body language, ticket in hand, etc.) and eventually manage to open one of the barriers. It may even be easiest for them just to select a single barrier, so one at the end and/or a wide-access one would make sense.

 

[HowardGWR]

I did report it, and nothing whatsoever came back.

I presume you mean 'yet'?

 

[34D]

On Friday evening, I passed through Leeds station on my way home from work, and holding a Metrocard that doesn't work in the barriers, I have to use the "assistance" barrier.

There was a massive queue to get through which initially I put down to being rush hour on a Friday, but soon noticed nobody was actually getting through.

The gateline guy was asking people to take their Metrocards out and insert them into the barriers, thus holding everyone up. This wasn't a minor hold up, it lasted several minutes, with the queue rapidly growing.

Two blokes even started fighting as they both tried to push past each other. It got that bad I decided to step in and try break it up, as did others.

There was a manager present who actually advised the gateline staff member to open the barriers as it was becoming, and I quote "a health and safety issue". Now, on this, you think he'd obey an order, especially under the circumstances. His response though was "No, they can wait, I don't care"!

Now, I don't for one minute disagree with ordinary ticket holders being told to use the barriers as they should do anyway, but Metrocard holders? No! My ticket certainly won't open the barrier.

I do however think that rush hour on a Friday evening was perhaps the most idiotic time to do this, and it clearly isn't part of a new policy from Northern, as yesterday I wasn't asked to try my Metrocard in the gates.

I am gobsmacked that in front of passengers, he could just dismiss our welfare like that, as well as an instruction from a manager!

Most Northern staff are perfectly fine, but this guy is a disgrace to them!

Why don't you get your Metrocard issued on mag strip stock then, instead of the post office version? Very soon, you'll be able to get it on ITSO, as already stated.

Request: does anyone on here have a WYPTE issued School Pass (the green smartcard) or WYPTE issued blind pass? I'm interested to know whether these work the barriers at Leeds and Bradford, and if not, what error message is displayed.

 

[yorkie]

I've had to walk the length of the gateline and the end gate opened - unless that's the only one they can open remotely. Seems odd to not just leave it open given they didn't check my ticket.

On a fairly recent occasion, all gates were closed except one, which displayed "No ticket required" and was left open. So, in reality the gateline was effectively not in use.

But the illusion was created (presumably to satisfy people like the DfT) that they were in use, when in fact tickets were not being inspected, and there was no excess fare window open so anyone arriving from an unstaffed station would have to be allowed through anyway.

As only one member of staff was manning the gateline, they were powerless to do anything, it is a dangerous situation to expect one person to deny people entry with no backup whatsoever, so understandably they kept a gate open.

Which makes me wonder, as clearly, one person is not sufficient, so why bother having anyone there, other than to create an illusion in order to tick a box to satisfy the DfT? I can think of no other reason.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

I presume you mean 'yet'?

I think May was long enough ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why don't you get your Metrocard issued on mag strip stock then, instead of the post office version? Very soon, you'll be able to get it on ITSO, as already stated.

Because using it at lest twice a day for more than a week or so means it will wear-out, and need replacing.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I had cause to pass through Leeds yesterday evening at 2115. At that time all gates were closed except the middle wide "gating assistance" gate which was locked open. There were 3 staff on duty, all of whom were stood near to that middle wide gate (2 were stood inside the adjacent small gate with one leaning on the end). I don't know if they were meant to be checking tickets of those walking through the open wide gate in ether direction, but they weren't. 1 attendant was playing on his phone, the other 2 engaged in animated conversation with each other whilst everyone just walked straight through without let or hindrance in both directions.

So in effect the gates were useless as anyone without tickets would be able to walk through.

 

[ajdunlop]

I was able to quite easily get my non rail stock MetroCard exchanged for one I can use in the barriers this morning. I'm surprised it has taken three months for anyone on the gate line to tell me I could. I assume they all thought I did have one I could use in the barriers but was just being lazy.

 

[34D]

Because using it at lest twice a day for more than a week or so means it will wear-out, and need replacing.

And? You are required to insert your ticket into a barrier. The railway company will replace it if it fades or stops working (for free).

 

[HowardGWR]

I was able to quite easily get my non rail stock MetroCard exchanged for one I can use in the barriers this morning. I'm surprised it has taken three months for anyone on the gate line to tell me I could. I assume they all thought I did have one I could use in the barriers but was just being lazy.

Clearly pax at Leeds need another hologram lady to tell them where to go to get one.

 

[Grumpy]

A couple of occasions earlier this year I had an hour to waste at Leeds during the morning peak, and some of this time was spent watching the passenger flow by the barriers. There was a constant large stream of passengers arriving via the footbridge together with those arriving from other platforms.

I have to say I was most impressed. The passengers just flowed through the gateline with no apparent delays. Most were using the gates but some diverted to the manned barriers.

Contrast this to what used to happen before the gateline was put in. There were possibly 2 or 3 ticket collectors for arriving passengers and everyone had to queue to funnel past them. Some mornings it could take 3-4 minutes just to get through the barriers. And I don't believe the ticket collectors did much revenue protection-you could wave anything at them and they let you through. I accept the gates don't check such as class of travel or discount railcards, but they do check that the ticket is valid for use. When the gateline was introduced there was a lot of discussion in the local press about the gates "not working". It turned out a lot of the problems were due to the gates working properly but passengers using invalid tickets eg re-using the return halves of day returns issued earlier in the week but not collected at open stations. Things they had got away with prior to the gateline.

Clearly some local manager want his/her backside kicking to make sure the barrier staff are scrutinising all tickets of passengers avoiding the gates. It beggars belief that Metro should still be selling tickets that cant work the gates

 

[Andrew Nelson]

And? You are required to insert your ticket into a barrier. The railway company will replace it if it fades or stops working (for free).

Or, you can show it to Staff, and not have to replace it 20x a year.

 

[Deerfold]

A couple of occasions earlier this year I had an hour to waste at Leeds during the morning peak, and some of this time was spent watching the passenger flow by the barriers. There was a constant large stream of passengers arriving via the footbridge together with those arriving from other platforms.

I have to say I was most impressed. The passengers just flowed through the gateline with no apparent delays. Most were using the gates but some diverted to the manned barriers.

Contrast this to what used to happen before the gateline was put in. There were possibly 2 or 3 ticket collectors for arriving passengers and everyone had to queue to funnel past them. Some mornings it could take 3-4 minutes just to get through the barriers. And I don't believe the ticket collectors did much revenue protection-you could wave anything at them and they let you through. I accept the gates don't check such as class of travel or discount railcards, but they do check that the ticket is valid for use. When the gateline was introduced there was a lot of discussion in the local press about the gates "not working". It turned out a lot of the problems were due to the gates working properly but passengers using invalid tickets eg re-using the return halves of day returns issued earlier in the week but not collected at open stations. Things they had got away with prior to the gateline.

My experiences differ, but most of my problems are down the way the arc of the gates sticks into the station and where the information boards are - it means that a lot of people are in the way for passengers transferring between Platfoms 1-6 and other platforms - far more than before the gates were there.

Clearly some local manager want his/her backside kicking to make sure the barrier staff are scrutinising all tickets of passengers avoiding the gates. It beggars belief that Metro should still be selling tickets that cant work the gates

Some tickets are tricky without reducing the number of outlets for them - I suspect it'd be pricey to equip (and train) every post office and bus station with machines that can encode rail tickets - not to mention the scratch-off versions of Day Rovers (and it's important these are available to purchase in advance as the Bus and Train versions cannot be bought from TVMs or on-train staff).

 

[Tetchytyke]

It beggars belief that Metro should still be selling tickets that cant work the gates

It isn't just Metro though, which is the problem. Most Rover tickets do not work the barriers, at least every time I've bought one none of the Northern-controlled barriers operated properly with the ticket.

Some Metro tickets are not encoded because of where they are sold. I don't see how Post Offices can ever sell magnetic tickets. Removing tickets from sale there would be utterly wrong.

And that's before we consider the number of actual genuine tickets that seem to get rejected by the barriers.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It beggars belief that Metro should still be selling tickets that cant work the gates

And what about normal national rail tickets that are valid, yet still don't work in the gates. Surely that is even worse?

 

[sheff1]

I accept the gates don't check such as class of travel or discount railcards, but they do check that the ticket is valid for use.

Unfortunately, they do not ... or, if they do, they don't do it very well.

After they barriers were intoduced, and following the 'accept everything' phase, I very quickly get fed up with messages telling me my ticket was 'Not valid at this location' when it clearly was.

 

[LexyBoy]

I see the opposite issue happen down here quite a bit – someone puts their ticket in, it doesn’t work, so they try again. When it doesn’t work a second time they move to the next barrier (usually awkwardly as there’s something of a queue building up), try there and so on until an attendant comes over.

Equally, a while back I had a load of bags with me so showed my ticket to the barrier attendant at a (very quiet) Oxford. “Got to go through the barrier” – so faffed around trying to transfer ticket to a position where I could actually insert it, and proceeded to get wedged in the barrier. A bit of common sense would have prevented a complaining gateline and a bruised hip in this case…

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Automatic gates would be fine if tickets actually worked in them.

Rail rovers - no go
Complimentary tickets - no go
Priv passes - no go
Metropasses - no go
Internet bought tickets - no go
Break of journey - no go
Commencement / termination of journey at intermediate station - no go
and so on.

I met the same using a Southern Daysave this summer. Bought on-line, picked up at a ticket machine, rarely worked in the heavily barriered Southern area. Man insisted on putting it through the machine and it failed - told you so!

Further, you could always compare the Leeds situation to the idiotic situation at Manchester Piccadilly - a manned barrier line partway across a footbirdge at the top of an escalator and manned barrier lines on some platform entrances but not others. Free travel - easy peasy - simply alight from your Northern Train, walk down the platforms, over the footbridge, and exit through the Virgin platforms that have no barrier!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Barriers at Leeds have always been a waste of time. They don't accept West Yorkshire Train Day Rovers, saying: "This Ticket is NOT Valid at this Station" Well if it's not valid at Leeds, where the chuff is it valid?

Never had a problem at Huddersfield, not that the barriers are used much.

On more than one occasion, I've got into Leeds early on a Sunday morning, and the Gate-line is shut, and unmanned. I've had to go to the Office to find somebody so I could get off the Station!!!!

This should be reorted. It is a requirement of having barriers that it is either manned or the gates MUST be left open. Safety reasons if there is a fire or other incident requiring quick evacuation.

 

[Marton]

Automatic gates would be fine if tickets actually worked in them.

Rail rovers - no go
Complimentary tickets - no go
Priv passes - no go
Metropasses - no go
Internet bought tickets - no go
Break of journey - no go
Commencement / termination of journey at intermediate station - no go
and so on.

Don't forget those of us who need tickets for claims who never know if the ticket will be retained so go to the manned.

AFAIK all the ECML run stations return tickets, but others don't - why doesn't it say at the gate if you will get your ticket back?

 

[455driver]

Report the matter, either by email or in writing, or using their online contact form.

Details here: http://www.northernrail.org/northern/contact_us

I'm sure the sensible member of staff who issued the instruction would appreciate it.

I am sure the manager would have dealt with the matter later on the same day once he has arranged for somebody else to man the barrier while the manager 'had a chat' with the GL assistant away from public scrutiny.

 

[yorksrob]

If you‘re at the manned gate, I believe the member of staff should inspect the ticket in the traditional way rather than forcing you to put it through the machine.

 

[Mojo]

This should be reorted. It is a requirement of having barriers that it is either manned or the gates MUST be left open. Safety reasons if there is a fire or other incident requiring quick evacuation.

That is not strictly what the voluntary Railway Industry Standard says. Whilst ''gatelines shall be continuously monitored when they are in use,'' this can be accomplished by someone physically present, someone nearby (e.g. in a ticket office, information booth or a control room) or someone remote (using CCTV, intercom facilities, and so-on). The actual requirements will be based on the individual risk assessment for that location, and also the customer service policy of the Toc in question.

Stations fitted with gates will also typically have them linked into the fire alarm system and there are also emergency open plungers.

 

[AndyHudds]

If you use a single person Metro Day Rover in the gates they do work, I've used them in the gate before, obviously it has to be one you've purchased at the station on rail style stock.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

My experiences differ, but most of my problems are down the way the arc of the gates sticks into the station and where the information boards are - it means that a lot of people are in the way for passengers transferring between Platfoms 1-6 and other platforms - far more than before the gates were there.



Some tickets are tricky without reducing the number of outlets for them - I suspect it'd be pricey to equip (and train) every post office and bus station with machines that can encode rail tickets - not to mention the scratch-off versions of Day Rovers (and it's important these are available to purchase in advance as the Bus and Train versions cannot be bought from TVMs or on-train staff).

The Bus and Train CAN be purchased from the on-board staff, however, GC are the only ones it seems can be bothered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you use a single person Metro Day Rover in the gates they do work, I've used them in the gate before, obviously it has to be one you've purchased at the station on rail style stock.

Ones issued on the Train however, don't.

 

[reb0118]

If you‘re at the manned gate, I believe the member of staff should inspect the ticket in the traditional way rather than forcing you to put it through the machine.

Any flexi-pass or period return should be put though the machine to check any error code that may be given. A ticket may look valid to the naked eye but the encoding may reveal it has been previously used.

 

[sheff1]

Any flexi-pass or period return should be put though the machine to check any error code that may be given. A ticket may look valid to the naked eye but the encoding may reveal it has been previously used.

Fair enough, but when the barrier staff then tut and mutter, as if the rejection of a perfectly valid ticket is somehow the passenger's fault, it does get rather wearing ... especially when you know the ticket won't be accepted due to poor programming of the barrier.

 

[Mojo]

Although any holder of such a ticket that wants to re-use it could easily scramble or wipe the code using a common household fridge magnet.