Todmorden Curve

[ianhr]

Its the most expensive one stop ticket price apparently for the mileage between the two stations, summat like that anyway.

Just checked a return ticket is £6 for 8 minutes and its only 7.5 miles.

Is the Network Rail area the only system in the world which does NOT have a basic kilometric fare structure? I know many other railways have a variety of discounted tickets but there is usually a base fare related to/proportional to DISTANCE. I think this nonsense all started in BR days in the 1970's with something called the 'Selective Pricing Manual'. In the days when my dad worked for the Southern Railway and then BR Southern Region they used to "cook up a fare" for unusual journeys for which they did not have printed ticket stock by using mileage tables.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It is complex due to PTE funded fares.

 

[ianhr]

I hope that when the curve opens a Leeds/Halifax/Hebden Bridge ticket to East Lancs will be valid via Todmorden as well as on the direct train as this will possibly give an extra journey option per hour (with a change at Tod). The increase in distance will be marginal.

 

[Waverley125]

I hope that when the curve opens a Leeds/Halifax/Hebden Bridge ticket to East Lancs will be valid via Todmorden as well as on the direct train as this will possibly give an extra journey option per hour (with a change at Tod). The increase in distance will be marginal.

should be, on the 'any route within 3 miles length' rule.

Remember there was a chat about that rule after I got double-charged for doing Normanton - Leeds via a double-back at Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Its the most expensive one stop ticket price apparently for the mileage between the two stations, summat like that anyway.

Just checked a return ticket is £6 for 8 minutes and its only 7.5 miles.

A similar TfGM/Metro cross-border return journey from Littleborough to Walsden is only between £3.20 and £3.50 and you get a tunnel thrown in like the one you mention.

 

[Hebden Bridger]

A similar TfGM/Metro cross-border return journey from Littleborough to Walsden is only between £3.20 and £3.50 and you get a tunnel thrown in like the one you mention.

On the Calder Valley line, cross-border fares from WY into GM seem far cheaper than into Lancashire.

Hebden Bridge to Burnley Man Rd - £7.30 single (12 miles)
Hebden Bridge to Rochdale - £4.90 single (13miles)

 

[WatcherZero]

Is the Network Rail area the only system in the world which does NOT have a basic kilometric fare structure? I know many other railways have a variety of discounted tickets but there is usually a base fare related to/proportional to DISTANCE. I think this nonsense all started in BR days in the 1970's with something called the 'Selective Pricing Manual'. In the days when my dad worked for the Southern Railway and then BR Southern Region they used to "cook up a fare" for unusual journeys for which they did not have printed ticket stock by using mileage tables.

No theres other systems, Holland for example divides the whole country up into zonal boxes and then charges for how many of the boxes you travel through.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On the Calder Valley line, cross-border fares from WY into GM seem far cheaper than into Lancashire.

Hebden Bridge to Burnley Man Rd - £7.30 single (12 miles)
Hebden Bridge to Rochdale - £4.90 single (13miles)

That seems bad, but it's even worse considering that the Rochdale example you give is not the shortest possible cross-border journey along that axis anyway- The example given by Paul Sidorczuk being a better comparison to the Marsden-Greenfield issue mentioned. Of course, it's all academic given that a direct Marsden-Greenfield journey may well become rather more difficult in the not-too-distant-future: likewise the Slaithwaite-Marsden journey that I myself make regularly.

Apologies for continuing the off-topic diversion but I would hope that an easement will be allowed (much like the 'change at Todmorden' example given by ianhr) in the event that a Slaithwaite-Marsden journey may be quicker/easier doubling back at Huddersfield when the true 'stopper' is withdrawn.

 

[northwichcat]

Its the most expensive one stop ticket price apparently for the mileage between the two stations, summat like that anyway.

Just checked a return ticket is £6 for 8 minutes and its only 7.5 miles.

Actually it's above average rather than the most expensive. West Yorkshire local fares are the lowest in England due to a high PTE subsidy but go between the last station in West Yorkshire and the first in Greater Manchester then you get an unsubsidised fare.

I imagine the maintenance for the line through the Standege Tunnel is much higher than other lines so it's not exactly unfair that the Marsden to Greenfield fare is higher than average.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course, it's all academic given that a direct Marsden-Greenfield journey may well become rather more difficult in the not-too-distant-future: likewise the Slaithwaite-Marsden journey that I myself make regularly.

There will still be the 184 bus route "over the tops" to fall back on when the proposed "perm any two from four " affects the railway services from Slaithwaite, Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley railway stations. At least that 184 bus service serves Uppermill and Diggle after Greenfield, which are communities not to see a rail served service for very many years.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There will still be the 184 bus route "over the tops" to fall back on when the proposed "perm any two from four " affects the railway services from Slaithwaite, Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley railway stations. At least that 184 bus service serves Uppermill and Diggle after Greenfield, which are communities not to see a rail served service for very many years.

I keep meaning to try that service out, but haven't actually used it for many years- when I did, it was the 365 which ran through from Bradford Interchange and terminated at Oldham, and I only used it as far as Boundary Park (we lost, if my memory serves me rightly!).

It wouldn't be much use to me for my usual run though, as bikes aren't permitted and it fails to serve the village centres of either Slaithwaite or Marsden quite as adequately as the train does.

Once again, apologies for the continued O/T ramblings!

 

[noddingdonkey]

Manchester Road for the bus is no more inconvenient the railway stations for Slaithwaite and Marsden centres.

What people find objectionable about the Marsden-Greenfield fare is how much it is in comparison to other journeys on the line. (Marsden to Greenfield costs more than Leeds to Marsden or Greenfield to Manchester).

I wonder if it would work to slightly increase the fare on Marsden/Slaithwaite to Huddersfield (which is significantly cheaper than the bus service, so I have to wonder whether so much subsidy is really justified) and redistribute that subsidy to reduce Marsden-Greenfield. Or even to subsidise the bus fares.

It just seems wrong that we have these fare anomalies at the boundaries of arbitrary political empires, which can effectively mean people have a much smaller area in which to look for a job.

 

[AndyHudds]

I keep meaning to try that service out, but haven't actually used it for many years- when I did, it was the 365 which ran through from Bradford Interchange and terminated at Oldham, and I only used it as far as Boundary Park (we lost, if my memory serves me rightly!).

It wouldn't be much use to me for my usual run though, as bikes aren't permitted and it fails to serve the village centres of either Slaithwaite or Marsden quite as adequately as the train does.

Once again, apologies for the continued O/T ramblings!

When do we ever win there?

I use the 184 occasionally, I find it a good service, the bus is modern and comfortable and you can buy a Manchester Day ticket in Huddersfield,well the driver sold me one anyway, its always quite busy as well with cross pennine travellers too. I've never used it as far as Manchester though, just to Oldham.

 

[Deerfold]

When do we ever win there?

I use the 184 occasionally, I find it a good service, the bus is modern and comfortable and you can buy a Manchester Day ticket in Huddersfield,well the driver sold me one anyway, its always quite busy as well with cross pennine travellers too. I've never used it as far as Manchester though, just to Oldham.

Was that recently?

The West Yorkshire / Greater Manchester First Day tickets used to be interavailable which was great for a night out in Manchester from Ripponden but that seemed to end a while ago.

I used the old 365 a few times when I had both a Metrocard and a Greater Manchester bus pass (which I usually used for 10 weeks in 1993 on the 528/556/562 services from Ripponden and then to Chadderton)

 

[AndyHudds]

Was that recently?

The West Yorkshire / Greater Manchester First Day tickets used to be interavailable which was great for a night out in Manchester from Ripponden but that seemed to end a while ago.

I used the old 365 a few times when I had both a Metrocard and a Greater Manchester bus pass (which I usually used for 10 weeks in 1993 on the 528/556/562 services from Ripponden and then to Chadderton)

It was July this year I last used it.

 

[Geeves]

The first day tickets at least at the Manchester end are valid on the 184 to Huddersfield, 589 to Burnley, 590 to Halifax and 100 to Warrington. I used too used the day saver at the Manchester end a few years ago to go all the way to Leeds and back.

Nice ride!! The reason you probably cant go all the way through anymore is they are no longer the same prices.

There was a massive signaling failure this evening between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, hopefully not a sign of things to come!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Only a few days left to go until the works on the Holme tunnel start on 9th November 2013 up to 28th March 2014.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Only a few days left to go until the works on the Holme tunnel start on 9th November 2013 up to 28th March 2014.

Thanks for bringing us vaguely back on-topic!

I do wonder if it would be possible to create such a media outcry about the lack of stock for the new East Lancashire service that the DfT is forced to subsidise the hiring of a couple of LHCS sets to (directly or otherwise) allow at least some services to run...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thanks for bringing us vaguely back on-topic!

I do wonder if it would be possible to create such a media outcry about the lack of stock for the new East Lancashire service that the DfT is forced to subsidise the hiring of a couple of LHCS sets to (directly or otherwise) allow at least some services to run...

Well, we have done our bit towards those aspirations on this thread...

 

[Starmill]

Aye... there must be SOMETHING out there! Don't ATW have two sets and only ever use one at time?

 

[ianhr]

Aye... there must be SOMETHING out there! Don't ATW have two sets and only ever use one at time?

Yes! put them on the S&C to release a couple of 158's for E.Lancs!

 

[Deerfold]

It was July this year I last used it.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/greater_manchester/tickets/firstday/

Yes, it seems as Geeves has said the Manchester day (and season) ticket is valid on the 184 all the way (and the 590 Rochdale to Halifax, 589 Rochdale to Burnley).

Of course now the 528 is now run by Yorkshire Tiger who don't seem to do a cross-border day ticket and the 562 is no more.

 

[175001]

Proof that the junction on the Manchester line is in!

 

[Darren R]

Nice pix 175001 - I am assuming that the signal immediately beyond the turn-out is going to be moved at some point!

As for the local back-lash at the delay to services starting - well, there doesn't appear to have been any. The only follow-up to the news that I have read in the Lancashire Telegraph was a call by a Burnley councillor to nationalise Northern Rail. I'm not entirely convinced that would make a great deal of difference at this stage though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As for the local back-lash at the delay to services starting - well, there doesn't appear to have been any. The only follow-up to the news that I have read in the Lancashire Telegraph was a call by a Burnley councillor to nationalise Northern Rail. I'm not entirely convinced that would make a great deal of difference at this stage though.

Are there any local elections in the offing ?

 

[spongsdad]

Are there any local elections in the offing ?

Unfortunately not. In my own small way, I have sent messages to Burnley Council and the local MP, Gordon Birtwistle (who will have to work hard to retain his seat) suggesting that this might be a good time to extract their digits or run the risk of letting down the community.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only follow-up to the news that I have read in the Lancashire Telegraph was a call by a Burnley councillor to nationalise Northern Rail. I'm not entirely convinced that would make a great deal of difference at this stage though.

The Burnley Express also carried the storyline as a headline story at the same time as The Lancashire Telegraph. I am reliably informed that these two newspapers have different owning bodies, so Burnley would specifically would have been covered by the area of distribution.

Rather ironic that the other project to benefit from the successful bid monies grant is the Weavers Triangle restoration and reinvigoration project, which is at Burnley, as Burnley Council themselves were the lead authority in the original bid submission.

 

[ianhr]

I think Accrington is a potential beneficiary too, as it will gain a direct train to Manchester. Will this be quicker than changing at Blackburn as at present? I gather there is also to be a stop at Rose Grove. What is the potential for decent connections to/from the Colne line for journeys to Man Vic via Tod? Also direct Rochdale-E.Lancs should be much quicker than existing bus links? Burnley Manchester Rd station is less convenient than the bus station, so will any local bus routes be diverted to serve it? Accrington station is fairly close to the town centre and Accrington seems to lack a proper bus station.

 

[The Planner]

Nice pix 175001 - I am assuming that the signal immediately beyond the turn-out is going to be moved at some point!

Gets moved about 50m further towards Hall Royd.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Burnley Manchester Road station is less convenient than the bus station, so will any local bus routes be diverted to serve it? Accrington station is fairly close to the town centre and Accrington seems to lack a proper bus station.

I think that any commercial bus service operator would have to evaluate the service frequency of the train service and to see if their existing commercial service routes would be disrupted by such a proposal, should their service routes not pass the site of the railway station. You can be sure that Transdev will not want any competition to their existing "X" prefix bus services and will have no reason to go out of their way to ensure the success of a competing mode of transport on their routes to Rawtenstall and Manchester.

Accrington seems to live quite happily with the terminal bus stops that are all grouped together in the centre of the town. Thank goodness the old navy and red livery is no longer carried around the Accrington area of bus operations.