Joanna Dennehy: serial killer

[cjp]

Age 35 as she begins a whole live term the cost to keep her in prison for the next 35 years is going to be over £1,000,000 as it apparently costs some £30,000 a year to keep a prisoner locked up.

Ok so in its wisdom the country has abolished the death penalty but I would like to suggest that after say ten or fifteeen years prisoners serving long terms should be given the means to take their own lives.

There is the still the element of punishment plus a substantial saving - which could even be shared with the victims family if they wanted it?

Just a thought . .. .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I missed some mention of an item about the case on the television news, but I think that mention was made of a letter that the accused has sent to the judge that conveyed her personal feelings on the committed offences.

I can well imagine that she would have not stood out if she had been translated back in time to being one of the infamous German female concentration camp guards of the Second World War, where her fantasies would have been allowed free play.

 

[Bayum]

Age 35 as she begins a whole live term the cost to keep her in prison for the next 35 years is going to be over £1,000,000 as it apparently costs some £30,000 a year to keep a prisoner locked up.

Ok so in its wisdom the country has abolished the death penalty but I would like to suggest that after say ten or fifteeen years prisoners serving long terms should be given the means to take their own lives.

There is the still the element of punishment plus a substantial saving - which could even be shared with the victims family if they wanted it?

Just a thought . .. .

The United Kingdom just won't go back to execution. It won't happen.

 

[455driver]

The United Kingdom just won't go back to execution. It won't happen.

Mores the pity, I can think of a couple of others sentenced this week that deserve the death penalty.

 

[90019]

The death penalty is revenge, not justice, and it has no place in a civilised society.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm grateful that we still have the chance to sentence Ms Dennehy to life without parole.

Sadly, we will have our work cut out to ensure that this remains the case.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The death penalty is revenge, not justice, and it has no place in a civilised society.

I would like to think that Ms Dennehy also has no place in a civilised society.

 

[90019]

I would like to think that Ms Dennehy also has no place in a civilised society.

Regardless of your opinion, she still lives in one.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Regardless of your opinion, she still lives in one.

No-one doubts that she lives in a civilised society, but that does not alter my opinion that she is not fit to live in one. That said, let no-one think that I refer to the ultimate sanction, as this is most certainly not a view that I hold.

 

[fowler9]

Any society is judged by the way it keeps its prisoners. One oops moment where you get the wrong guy is one oops moment too many with the death penalty.

 

[meridian2]

'Civilised society' is little more than a subjective view of the society we live in. I rather think it's to do with the death penalty being at odds with your own individual principles than being reflective of society in general.
How the treatment of prisoners is some sort of 'indicator' of social values defies me.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

A I would like to suggest that after say ten or fifteeen years prisoners serving long terms should be given the means to take their own lives.

Because you then give them the means to control their future, which is what they want. Taking that control away and forcing someone to stay in prison until they die a natural death is far more punishing for them, as they have had the ultimate control of their lives (the ability to end it) removed from them.

 

[fowler9]

'Civilised society' is little more than a subjective view of the society we live in. I rather think it's to do with the death penalty being at odds with your own individual principles than being reflective of society in general.
How the treatment of prisoners is some sort of 'indicator' of social values defies me.

Treating people like animals does not reform them and the death penalty has no deterent effect, it is just revenge.

 

[Geezertronic]

Treating people like animals does not reform them and the death penalty has no deterent effect, it is just revenge.

In this particular case I would suggest there is no chance of reform given her age and distinct lack of remorse. So while she should be kept in prison humanely, she should also be kept in prison cheaply

 

[meridian2]

Treating people like animals does not reform them and the death penalty has no deterent effect, it is just revenge.

Hardly, it's just at odds with your liberal, 'everyone has a heart somewhere', attitude and principles.

 

[youngboy]

I've always believed in the return of the death penalty but after hearing the desperation of Ian Brady to end his own life because a lifetime of prison has destroyed his mind and soul, makes me now believe that this is correct.
Only difference I would make is less goodies and good food and more bread,water and breaking rocks. And if that is the measure of how civilised we are then so be it !!!

 

[fowler9]

I've always believed in the return of the death penalty but after hearing the desperation of Ian Brady to end his own life because a lifetime of prison has destroyed his mind and soul, makes me now believe that this is correct.
Only difference I would make is less goodies and good food and more bread,water and breaking rocks. And if that is the measure of how civilised we are then so be it !!!

I agree with you on the first paragraph, regarding the second, do you remember all the horror stories about the two girls banged up in Peru and how awful the prisons were there. They were by all accounts trafficking beak for gods sake. Do people want them to stay in the Hilton?

 

[jon91]

Hardly, it's just at odds with your liberal, 'everyone has a heart somewhere', attitude and principles.

What a well thought out and reasoned response...

 

[455driver]

I agree with you on the first paragraph, regarding the second, do you remember all the horror stories about the two girls banged up in Peru and how awful the prisons were there. They were by all accounts trafficking beak for gods sake. Do people want them to stay in the Hilton?

Just move them over here where they get, fed, watered, cleaned ujp after, playstations, Xboxes, televisions, DVD players, radios etc etc etc, not forgetting that they can also earn money while inside, they would love it.

Yes life is rough inside hence the number of repeat offenders!
This is written as somebody with 2 brothers in prison long term.

 

[SS4]

Age 35 as she begins a whole live term the cost to keep her in prison for the next 35 years is going to be over £1,000,000 as it apparently costs some £30,000 a year to keep a prisoner locked up.

Ok so in its wisdom the country has abolished the death penalty but I would like to suggest that after say ten or fifteeen years prisoners serving long terms should be given the means to take their own lives.

There is the still the element of punishment plus a substantial saving - which could even be shared with the victims family if they wanted it?

Just a thought . .. .

Your maths put the costs as being £1,050,000 so whilst being correct your figures imply it'll cost more than that - a tactic loved by the tabloids to scare people.

There is no punishment in offering someone the chance to commit suicide. It gives the prisoner control over their life unless someone was standing over them with a gun a la Rommel.

What would have happened if say the Birmingham Six were offered this option and taken it?

I missed some mention of an item about the case on the television news, but I think that mention was made of a letter that the accused has sent to the judge that conveyed her personal feelings on the committed offences.

I can well imagine that she would have not stood out if she had been translated back in time to being one of the infamous German female concentration camp guards of the Second World War, where her fantasies would have been allowed free play.

You mean there would have been a decent chance of her evading justice at the end of it all?

I'm grateful that we still have the chance to sentence Ms Dennehy to life without parole.

Sadly, we will have our work cut out to ensure that this remains the case.

Not really. Life sentences are still allowed and in practical terms the only thing that'll change is that they can have a big fat DENIED stamp on any parole application. The government chooses not to do this because it's fuel for the anti-EU fire.

Hardly, it's just at odds with your liberal, 'everyone has a heart somewhere', attitude and principles.

Sounds like the attitude of someone who wants to have the right to shoot whoever he likes (see what I did there?)

I've always believed in the return of the death penalty but after hearing the desperation of Ian Brady to end his own life because a lifetime of prison has destroyed his mind and soul, makes me now believe that this is correct.
Only difference I would make is less goodies and good food and more bread,water and breaking rocks. And if that is the measure of how civilised we are then so be it !!!

Does anyone have any non-anecdotal evidence that prisoners live the life of Riley whilst inside (barring having absolutely no freedom of course).

 

[jon91]

Does anyone have any non-anecdotal evidence that prisoners live the life of Riley whilst inside (barring having absolutely no freedom of course).

It was in the paper, therefore it must be true and apply to all inmates.

 

[GB]

Any society is judged by the way it keeps its prisoners. One oops moment where you get the wrong guy is one oops moment too many with the death penalty.

Yes, but is there any doubt in this case and the Lee Rigby case of who the perpetrators are?

 

[yorksrob]

Not really. Life sentences are still allowed and in practical terms the only thing that'll change is that they can have a big fat DENIED stamp on any parle application. The government chooses not to do this because it's fuel for the anti-EU fire.

Yes really. A term with an automatic right to review is not a whole life tariff as there is always the chance for some do-gooder to let them out.

Fortunately, the High Court has declined to follow the flawed logic of the ECHR and has decided that the whole life tariff as it stands is indeed lawful, meaning that for the time being at least, our courts have the freedom to hand down sentences that are proportional to the severity of the crime.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Hardly, it's just at odds with your liberal, 'everyone has a heart somewhere', attitude and principles.

I'd argue it's far worse to just assume that people don't.

Reform has been shown to work extremely well in Scandinavian countries; there's a reason the main arguments for the death penalty and harsher sentences seem to be motivated from revenge rather than genuine desire for a better penal system.
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Just move them over here where they get, fed, watered, cleaned ujp after, playstations, Xboxes, televisions, DVD players, radios etc etc etc, not forgetting that they can also earn money while inside, they would love it.

Yes life is rough inside hence the number of repeat offenders!
This is written as somebody with 2 brothers in prison long term.

Except that's complete rubbish.

Violent criminals do not stay in those sorts of prisons, as I'm sure you very well know. Unless you're completely ignorant of prisons (and therefore in no place to comment on them), you would know that there are different grades for different types of prisoner. Only the lower security ones get things such as those, and in higher security it's very much dependent on your crime and your behaviour in the prison: most people don't get them.
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Yes really. A term with an automatic right to review is not a whole life tariff as there is always the chance for some do-gooder to let them out.

Fortunately, the High Court has declined to follow the flawed logic of the ECHR and has decided that the whole life tariff as it stands is indeed lawful, meaning that for the time being at least, our courts have the freedom to hand down sentences that are proportional to the severity of the crime.

Except for the fact that there's literally no point in whole-life prison terms. Why spend all that money when we could spend a lot less and end up with a rehabilitated prisoner?

At the end of the day, the main purpose of the justice system (from the point of the government, at least) is to stop people reoffending and getting them to get back into society with minimal problems. Punishing people for the sake of it, whilst it might seem like justice to you or me, really isn't productive or helpful, and worst of all it's expensive. If you think execution would be cheap then look at the ridiculous costs of prisoners on death row over the pond.

 

[455driver]

Does anyone have any non-anecdotal evidence that prisoners live the life of Riley whilst inside (barring having absolutely no freedom of course).

Yes me after talking to my 2 brothers!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Yes me after talking to my 2 brothers!

That is, by definition, anecdotal. :roll:

 

[455driver]

Except that's complete rubbish.

Except it isnt! :roll:

Violent criminals do not stay in those sorts of prisons, as I'm sure you very well know.

Yes they do, I have seen it with my own eyes and my brothers have told me how well they live.

Unless you're completely ignorant of prisons (and therefore in no place to comment on them), you would know that there are different grades for different types of prisoner.

I am not completely ignorant but somebody is!

Only the lower security ones get things such as those, and in higher security it's very much dependent on your crime and your behaviour in the prison: most people don't get them.

That used to be the case but all prisoners have to be treated equally now (due to the bloody liberals in society) .
Have you ever been in any of these places and seen how the cells are arranged and furnished?
One of my brothers is on a wing for murderers and the other deals with sex offenders so I am in a position to comment and it isnt complete rubbish!
At one stage the Prison Officers were told (by all the liberal bleeding heart brigade) to call the lags Sir as it would improve their self esteem :roll:, that didnt last long!

Oh my brothers hold the keys and get to go home every day.

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose it ends up with the philosophical position of whether you think that everyone is rehabilitable (if that's a word ) or not. Christianity seems to be very clear that everyone is. I think (I'm not a Cristian by the way) that most are, but not all. The whole life tariff is imposed relatively rarely, and the Judiciary seems to make a good stab at sorting out these cases.

There's also the view of what prison should be for. I don't automatically consider locking up someone for the rest of their lives to be a waste of money because I believe that prison has a punative purpose as well as (in the majority of cases) a rehabilative one. To that end, keeping the likes of the Moors Murderers banged up forever seems like money well spent to me. That said, I'm inclined to agree with some of the prison reformers that a lot of non-violent prisoners could be rehabilitated in better ways outside of prison.


p.s, The Knight Who, I‘m arguing for the whole life tariff, not the rope.

 

[455driver]

That is, by definition, anecdotal. :roll:

So me going on a tour of the prison and seeing it with my own eyes is anecdotal!:roll:

Maybe I should have taken some pictures even though our cameras and phones etc were taken from us before we were allowed on the tour!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Except it isnt! :roll:


Yes they do, I have seen it with my own eyes and my brothers have told me how well they live.

I am not completely ignorant but somebody is!


That used to be the case but all prisoners have to be treated equally now (due to the bloody liberals in society) .
Have you ever been in any of these places and seen how the cells are arranged and furnished?
One of my brothers is on a wing for murderers and the other deals with sex offenders so I am in a position to comment and it isnt complete rubbish!
At one stage the Prison Officers were told (by all the liberal bleeding heart brigade) to call the lags Sir as it would improve their self esteem :roll:, that didnt last long!

Oh my brothers hold the keys and get to go home every day.

Except once again that's anecdotal evidence.

There really are types of prison in Britain, but yes, I suppose it is easier just to shout about liberals instead of looking at the facts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_security_categories_in_the_United_Kingdom

Do you seriously think it's productive to just slam people away for years and years with no chance of reform? Look at America and all the problems they have with reoffending. Although by the sounds of it it's your dream prison system!
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So me going on a tour of the prison and seeing it with my own eyes is anecdotal!:roll:

Maybe I should have taken some pictures even though our cameras and phones etc were taken from us before we were allowed on the tour!

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anecdotal

Yes, yes it is.