Class 60's to Colas

[DarloRich]

Can someone let a poor uneducated sole like me know what a super60 is or what super60'ing entails.

They get a cape, a mask, they wear their underpants outside their trousers, super diesel strength and they can travel faster than a speeding bullet.

By day they are mild mannered freight locos resting in siding by night they are crime fighting super heroes saving the freight world from the evil of trip workings and un-fitted trains, ever alert for the call to action, ever vigilant regarding dangers facing the earth.

That and a fancy overhaul

 

[TB93]

They get a cape, a mask, they wear their underpants outside their trousers, super diesel strength and they can travel faster than a speeding bullet.

By day they are mild mannered freight locos resting in siding by night they are crime fighting super heroes saving the freight world from the evil of trip workings and un-fitted trains, ever alert for the call to action, ever vigilant regarding dangers facing the earth.

That and a fancy overhaul

You forgot to add that they only run on Shell super diesel.

 

[greysleuth]

Class 37 and Class 60 to come on line. Whatever they will be used for we can be sure that the shrewd management at Colas will have a cunning plan.
Perhaps the 37s are for places heavier beasties can't go.
Class 60s maybe to start with an element of "dog in manger" we have them you can't. Let's not forget there is a huge volume of heavy haulage to come with HS 2. What do tugs do best ? HEAVY ! !
Be lucky
David

 

[fgwrich]

Class 37 and Class 60 to come on line. Whatever they will be used for we can be sure that the shrewd management at Colas will have a cunning plan.
Perhaps the 37s are for places heavier beasties can't go.
Class 60s maybe to start with an element of "dog in manger" we have them you can't. Let's not forget there is a huge volume of heavy haulage to come with HS 2. What do tugs do best ? HEAVY ! !
Be lucky
David

Most likely so. There are still a few lines where CL37 Traction seems to be preferred including several in Scotland and Central Wales - That being closer to Colas's patch will also give them an advantage over their rivals, in that the only other operator on freight with 37s is DRS. If fitted with ETRMS then it's probable they may get used on the Cambrian as well.

 

[junglejames]

If it would fry the motors to travel at 75mph, they aren't geared for that speed rather by definition. :roll:

My physics needs updating i suspect. Anyways, all im saying is yes, they only go 60, and yes, they have never officially gone faster than 60 in service, but 'apparently' it is not gearing that is stopping them going faster. Just like it isnt gearing thats stopping a 91 going 140.

Its been said by more than one person, and the story is that EWS/ DB were looking into the feasibility of increasing the top speed during the overhauls.

However this is just going by what people (who should know) have said. Just like the opposite is being said by some people on here (who Im assuming should also know). Now where is Mr Brush for the definitive answer.

 

[Yew]

My physics needs updating i suspect. Anyways, all im saying is yes, they only go 60, and yes, they have never officially gone faster than 60 in service, but 'apparently' it is not gearing that is stopping them going faster. Just like it isnt gearing thats stopping a 91 going 140.

Indeed, Electra Hit 162mph, on her record London-Edinburgh run, almost 20% over her maximum designed service speed

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wasn't she re-geared specially for that, though?

 

[junglejames]

Indeed, Electra Hit 162mph, on her record London-Edinburgh run, almost 20% over her maximum designed service speed

Certainly did. Bet they wouldnt want them running at that speed too often!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't she re-geared specially for that, though?

I dont think so. Apparently they would be a pain to re gear.
Could be wrong though.

 

[ExRes]

You know as fact that DBS have no locos for sale at present, you will be able to state the owner/owners of all 20 of the Class 60s that were placed for sale then ?

Yes
Brian[/QUOTE]

I'm struggling to work out whether you are trying to be amusing or you are just suffering from an ego problem, regardless of which it is you don't impress me in the slightest

 

[455driver]

Wasn't she re-geared specially for that, though?

No but they did make sure the wheelsets were maximum size and the traction motors were nicely run in for maximum efficiency.

I find it quite sad really that we shout about a train doing 162mph when the French can manage 357mph.

 

[Beveridges]

Is this not also true of the 37s? I understand that it was only with the demise of the 40s, 55s etc that the humble 37s began to attract a large following.

I prefer the sound of a tractor over a 40 or Deltic anyway. But it doesn't matter what specific engine we're talking about, it does not distract from the fact that Colas are getting a serious fleet of engines which are thrashworthy.

 

[al.currie93]

No but they did make sure the wheelsets were maximum size and the moors were nicely run in for maximum efficiency.

I find it quite sad really that we shout about a train doing 162mph when the French can manage 357mph.

I agree with your last point... and even more sad at the fact that we don't even have a new train to shout about any more...

 

[Jamesb1974]

Just like it isnt gearing thats stopping a 91 going 140..

Don't forget that 91's etc are geared for speed, hence they can achieve 140mph and above. However, 60's are geared for moving heavy loads at slow speeds.

 

[Beveridges]

Even an 08 (geared for 15mph) can reach 17mph.

 

[455driver]

Even an 08 (geared for 15mph) can reach 17mph.

Well as some 08s (usually Southern region allocated ones) were allowed to run at a maximum of 20mph with the same gearing that isnt much of a surprise!

The 09s have different gearing and are allowed a maximum of 27mph at the expense of haulage capability.

08 15mph 35000lb max 11100 at 8.8mph continuous
09 27mph 25000ld max 8800 at 11.6mph continuous

Everything else traction wise (except the gearing) is the same on these 2 classes so this is a good example of how gearing effects speed/ haulage capacity.

 

[BantamMenace]

i dread to think how much time would've been saved if someone bit the bullet at the earliest possible stage and re-geared the 225s to reach 125-130mph only. The increased acceleration for 25ish years over 31 sets over 360ish diagrams a year. The minutes that would've been saved would now be getting on for 1.5m minutes assuming 5 minutes were shaved off each diagram each day

 

[ash39]

Not sure everyone in here has got the concept of gearing. Think about what you're typing. If something is 'geared for' a maximum 15mph, how can it reach 17? Not possible. It must have been geared for a maximum of 17 (even if its stated top speed is 15).

Think of it in terms of a car. If you're doing 2250rpm at 70mph in top gear, and the rev limit is 4500rpm, it is geared for a maximum of 140mph (though it may not have the power to get there). However, you give the engine as much power as you wanted and it'd never top 140mph without changing the gearbox.

 

[Freightmaster]

Think of it in terms of a car. If you're doing 2250rpm at 70mph in top gear, and the rev limit is 4500rpm, it is geared for a maximum of 140mph (though it may not have the power to get there). However, you give the engine as much power as you wanted and it'd never top 140mph without changing the gearbox.

Unless you were driving down a very long, steep hill at the time??


MARK

 

[#1 driver]

Still waiting for any 75mph evidence .

 

[Beveridges]

Still waiting for any 75mph evidence .

I think I was wrong on this one.

 

[Oswyntail]

Still waiting for any 75mph evidence .

Oh come on, you know the drill here. Someone puts up an unsubstantiable claim, defends it vociferously, then abandons the thread when questioned by someone who has actual facts. Without these rules, 75% of the threads on this forum would be two posts long. ("This happened" "No it didn't")

 

[Darandio]

Still waiting for any 75mph evidence .

You mean the evidence for 60's going 75mph?

It was already posted earlier, hundreds of bashers 'witnessed it'.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1752202&postcount=48

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh come on, you know the drill here. Someone puts up an unsubstantiable claim, defends it vociferously, then abandons the thread when questioned by someone who has actual facts. Without these rules, 75% of the threads on this forum would be two posts long. ("This happened" "No it didn't")

And yet said member hopes one day to enter senior management! The road haulage companies will have a field day!

 

[#1 driver]

And yet said member hopes one day to enter senior management!

Just hope it's with GBRf !

 

[junglejames]

Still waiting for any 75mph evidence .

Not sure theres any evidence of anything.
Some claim to have seen them go 75 (I have no idea on that one).
I myself have seen it mentioned elsewhere by people in the know, that they have the gearing for it, but are restricted by something else.
You dont believe either one because the manual only mentions 60.

I dont actually know anything for definite, but it seems quite likely (from what ive heard) that they are geared for 75, but have never actually done this speed, and are restricted by something else. If the speedo is no good up to this speed, then it seems likely they never intended the locos to ever go above 60.But what is stopping it? I dont know. Im just repeating that some people are adamant it isnt gearing.

 

[sprinterguy]

Indeed, Electra Hit 162mph, on her record London-Edinburgh run, almost 20% over her maximum designed service speed

The 162mph record set by 91010 was not on a London to Edinburgh run. The three and a half hour Kings Cross to Edinburgh record was a separate event.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No but they did make sure the wheelsets were maximum size and the traction motors were nicely run in for maximum efficiency.

Additionally, while I don't know what might have been said after the record breaking test run with 91010, following the passenger carrying record with 91031 a few years later it was stated that to try and push the loco much past the maximum of 154mph it achieved would have been detrimental to the locos' gearbox.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I find it quite sad really that we shout about a train doing 162mph when the French can manage 357mph.

Staying wildly off topic (sorry), it must be said that we're rather hamstrung these days in the high speed stakes by our comparative lack of dedicated high speed lines (excepting HS1) compared to continental Europe. To be fair, 162mph is only the domestic record: The highest speed acheived by a train on British soil was with a Eurostar on HS1 shortly after it opened, clocking up 208mph.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't all new trains have to achieve the planned maximum +10% on test in order to be cleared to run at said maximum? I'm sure that was mentioned on here with regards to 350s (and 387s) being passed for 110mph.

 

[sprinterguy]

Don't all new trains have to achieve the planned maximum +10% on test in order to be cleared to run at said maximum? I'm sure that was mentioned on here with regards to 350s (and 387s) being passed for 110mph.

I believe so - I certainly remember the planned testing of the then-new 67s at up to 137.5mph being reported.

 

[#1 driver]

I think I was wrong on this one.

I applaud you , sir !

I myself have seen it mentioned elsewhere by people in the know, that they have the gearing for it, but are restricted by something else.

Don't all new trains have to achieve the planned maximum +10% on test in order to be cleared to run at said maximum?

why have a heavy haul loco that will pull 60mph trains up to 60mph and have it geared for MORE than that ?
it doesn't make sense !

 

[Beveridges]

The 59s are almost certainly geared for 75mph. Many places refer to the 59/2s top speed as 75mph. 59/0s are 60mph but they have exactly the same gearing as the /2s so something else other than gearing is preventing them reaching 75mph. As for the 60s I'm not sure, I thought they were 75mph as well but they may or may not be.