I very much appreciate(d) the rail travel concession on my bus pass, and it was a right. Nobody likes having rights taken away, why should they?
I'm not one for semantics, but surely it was a discretionary entitlement that was withdrawn?
I very much appreciate(d) the rail travel concession on my bus pass, and it was a right. Nobody likes having rights taken away, why should they?
Of course, if pensioners were given free rail travel across the country like they are in Hungary ...
..
Concessionary bus journeys are not "free", they are just paid for by somebody else. That somebody else is the people who have to pay the full fare.
I think you will find that those who pay are not those who "have to pay the full fare" but all those who live in the Authority's area whether or not they travel on public transport. A much larger source of funding and so much less per head from those who pay.
I think you will find that those who pay are not those who "have to pay the full fare" but all those who live in the Authority's area whether or not they travel on public transport. A much larger source of funding and so much less per head from those who pay.
Arctic Troll said:Council tax payers who also use the bus regularly (and pay a fare) will, in effect, be paying twice for all these "free" journeys.
I am sorry, but I disagree with you. You are paying your bus fare for the actual journey that you are making, not for any other council-tax supplementary income, for who is to say that if what you say was true, can you assure yourself that it will not go towards matters such as other non-transport related services.
Why all this "hate mail" about freeloaders?
£13:55 expensive? I don't think so! That's what it costs from Chesterfield to Manchester with a railcard. [It's £20:50 without] And, East Midlands Trains do run an hourly direct service (via Sheffield) which takes about an hour and a quarter. So I think you ought to get your facts straight!
An observation - people do not appreciate things they get for free. They come to regard them as a right.
I very much appreciate(d) the rail travel concession on my bus pass, and it was a right. Nobody likes having rights taken away, why should they?
What about disabled people? You seemed to have missed my point, or do you have objection to them too!
Just think..all this will be possible just by overturning the local transport ENCTS pipe-dream of the great and respected Labour Party iconic figure who served both as Chancellor of the Exchequer and as Prime Minister from the land where they say they know the value of bawbees...I give you Gordon "Prudence" Brown.
3)....Leisure Centres would open their doors again to the great benefit to the local populace who would oversubscribe all the offered facilities and a new breed of British athletes from South Yorkshire would go on to winning Gold Medals at the next Olympic Games.
All that untold health benefit as well as improving the social lives of all those involved, just for the price of a few pensioners travelling on trains where there are mostly bus routes to cover it.
But the officially accepted use of the ENCTS pass only covers bus travel.
Nothing whatsoever to do with trains....or the Sheffield Supertram.
But the officially accepted use of the ENCTS pass only covers bus travel.
Nothing whatsoever to do with trains....or the Sheffield Supertram.
But the point is SYorks are spending £400,000 (I'm assuming the figure above is correct) on extending that to trains for SYorks users.
So that's what could be achieved without touching the basics of ENTCS - how much more is spent on the basics?
Why on earth should I be expected to justify any monies that are spent by the elected members of that authority on something that is both additional and exterior to the basic bus-use only costs of the ENCTS pass.
It was the local electorate of that area who saw fit to appoint these same councillors and it is now up to the same electorate to judge them on their actions.
But the point is SYorks are spending £400,000 (I'm assuming the figure above is correct) on extending that to trains for SYorks users.
So that's what could be achieved without touching the basics of ENTCS - how much more is spent on the basics?
I find it amazing to read that ALL the current closures in the South Yorkshire Autonomous Oblast are down to nothing else but the ENCTS pass financing requirements.
Just think, if that scheme was ended overnight...as if by magic...then the consensus of opinion in that very specific region would be the end of all their problems:-
1)....Libraries would re-open and be packed to the rafters with those demanding the services offered.
2)....SureStart would be seen to be oversubscribed by parents demanding the full benefits these offer to the young children.
3)....Leisure Centres would open their doors again to the great benefit to the local populace who would oversubscribe all the offered facilities and a new breed of British athletes from South Yorkshire would go on to winning Gold Medals at the next Olympic Games.
4)....Fire Stations would not only reopen but the extra finance that came from the ENCTS pass savings would see whole fleets of new fire tenders purchased.
5)....Public Sector cuts would be overturned and council-funded pension scheme improvements would be immediately put into place.
Just think..all this will be possible just by overturning the local transport ENCTS pipe-dream of the great and respected Labour Party iconic figure who served both as Chancellor of the Exchequer and as Prime Minister from the land where they say they know the value of bawbees...I give you Gordon "Prudence" Brown.
But the officially accepted use of the ENCTS pass only covers bus travel.
Nothing whatsoever to do with trains....or the Sheffield Supertram.
But the point is SYorks are spending £400,000 (I'm assuming the figure above is correct) on extending that to trains for SYorks users.
So that's what could be achieved without touching the basics of ENTCS - how much more is spent on the basics?
I thought this thread was disscussing what's happened in South Yorkshire?
I don't think anyone expects you to justify what South Yorks decides but you commented that this was outside the scope of ENTCS.
However we see local Pensioners claiming that free train travel is a "right", singing songs about how they "shall not be moved", likening boarding local trains with no intention to pay to the "mass protest" on Kinder Scout, demanding the "right" to travel to Leeds for free...
...I personally think that cash strapped councils have better things to fund than free train travel for pensioners.
the damage they're causing by their, quite frankly, selfish actions of demanding to go to Leeds, Huddersfield or whereever for nowt.
Exactly, the thing is what gets me is that the majority of South Yorkshire's pensioners are hardcore Labour voters, who it seem think that there is a bottomless pit of money where they can have everything free. Its time for them to wake up and realise the damage they're causing by their, quite frankly, selfish actions of demanding to go to Leeds, Huddersfield or whereever for nowt.
Politically, I don't seen any point holding elections in South Yorkshire as the sheep keep voting in the same old party, this same old party should make a few cuts to the ENCTP scheme where by the Supertram pulls out of it too and the hours get reduced for South Yorkshire Senior pass holders, they'll soon vote in another party.
If Labour-voting South Yorkshire pensioners think there's a "bottomless pit of money" to pay for their exotic ventures to err ... Leeds and Huddersfield and Pontefract ... well, I used to think there was a "bottomless pit of coal" located in South Yorkshire which these folk and their spouses obligingly dug up for us until Margaret Thatcher put a stop to that.
Plus Pontefract Bagill and Keighley (once a week)
I'm glad to hear that you find this all so amusing from your vantage point.
But, here in SY, there are a lot of people affected by cuts, people of all ages. The £400,000 cost of providing free train travel each year is equivalent to employing a number of Sure Start workers/ Library staff/ Leisure Centre employees.
However we see local Pensioners claiming that free train travel is a "right", singing songs about how they "shall not be moved", likening boarding local trains with no intention to pay to the "mass protest" on Kinder Scout, demanding the "right" to travel to Leeds for free...
...I personally think that cash strapped councils have better things to fund than free train travel for pensioners.
Paul - this thread was set up to discuss the cuts to train travel in South Yorkshire (to save £400,000 pa).
As has been discussed, this is something over and above the cost of ENCTS to the local councils. The fact that people keep (deliberately?) confusing free train travel with the ENCTS requirements for free bus travel means that it's harder to have a sensible argument about the recent cuts in SY, but these are two separate things.
If you want to discuss ENCTS generally then maybe that requires it's own thread?
You are correct - £400,000 is the cost of the additional things that SY funded for a number of years, and has now run out of money for, hence the recent cuts. I don't know what ENCTS costs local taxpayers, but I suspect that any figure would be meaningless as there's no realistic chance of ENCTS changing any time soon anyway.
It was set up (by me) to discuss that very point. Problem is that when you discuss any cuts like this you attract the "oh, I suppose you want to cut all travel for pensioners" arguments (plus accusations that I have "a problem" with disabled people, for thinking that free train travel to Leeds for people who get a mobility allowance shouldn't be a priority).
Basically, there's a lot of "whataboutery" here that distracts from the problems faced by SY councils.
The older you are, the more likely you are to vote. We shall not hear of bus pass scheme withdrawals or down-sizing as part of any manifesto.I will make this my final return to this thread to state that as each month passes, the advent of the next General Election draws ever nearer and each of the main political parties will have to state exactly what they see should happen to make the country fit their own ideals.
It will be then that the electorate suddenly realise that they actually have the power to put a Government in power, but this is a responsibility that they should grasp and if vast swathes of them are apathetic in certain areas, they do the rest of the nation's electorate no favours.
I will ask if, seeing as a certain transport matter that the Labour Party was instrumental in putting in place, what is the currently-held view by the Labour Party on this self-same subject. Have the current Members of Parliament in the South Yorkshire area made any personal statements upon the matter in hand, that the electorate can hear ?
Pass holders are not allowed to travel beyond Leeds. I was told this by NT staff.
The older you are, the more likely you are to vote. We shall not hear of bus pass scheme withdrawals or down-sizing as part of any manifesto.
One day, a government will have to face it and accept the scheme is unviable; same as all universal pension-age benefits. They might be there to see out your life but they certainly wont be there to see out mine.