Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[Moonshot]

Some of us have better railcards at the moment - still doesn't help with some of these fares that a railcard doesn't help with though!

I personally would like to see them all scrapped and replaced with single off peak one that is available to every single person if they cough up £30. But thats just my opinion.

 

[yorksrob]

I personally would like to see them all scrapped and replaced with single off peak one that is available to every single person if they cough up £30. But thats just my opinion.

At last we agree on something !

 

[Merseysider]

I personally would like to see them all scrapped and replaced with single off peak one that is available to every single person if they cough up £30. But thats just my opinion.

I too agree with this idea, in principle. Provided they were valid before 10:00 subject to a minimum fare.

 

[Qwerty133]

At least the restrictions aren't as pathetic (and yes that is a fair word to use) as the ones on a lot of off peak tickets from my local station, especially considering the ticket prices.

 

[Crossover]

I personally would like to see them all scrapped and replaced with single off peak one that is available to every single person if they cough up £30. But thats just my opinion.

At last we agree on something !

Make that another agreement in principle - bloody hell, have we just witnessed an epiphany?! :P

 

[Qwerty133]

I personally would like to see them all scrapped and replaced with single off peak one that is available to every single person if they cough up £30. But thats just my opinion.

Personally I'd set the price at £37.50, with 20% discount to the disabled and those aged 16-25 and 65/6+ (whatever the current pension age is).
Or if the current railcard system has to be kept increase the disabled to £30 in line with the others.

 

[Starmill]

Read my post at 22.18......I said your free choice and I m not disagreeing with that.

I would also highlight that a few month ago, the rail industry introduced a new railcard called two together. If you havent got one, its a great way of getting discounted rail fares,

I propose we reduce subsidy on the railways by abolishing the Two Together Railcard. All of those people getting cheaper tickets when they could be paying full price!

 

[hassaanhc]

I agree. Even in the south east, many people believe that a train is either a 'peak train' or an 'off peak train'. I suspect that view is even more prevalent in t'North.

Probably hard to generalise in another way given how complex peak restrictions can be?
At Paddington the long distance trains in the evening peak show on the screens "The following tickets may not be valid" with a list following. There are even posters by the gate lines to try and help staff determine the validity of tickets. And when I took a brief ride to Slough on the 1922 HST to Hereford the Train Manager announced "This is a super off peak service", which of course is not technically true!
Peak restrictions can be extremely complex and to try and present them in a simple manner results in the idea that peak restrictions apply to specific train services, when in reality it depends on what the restriction code of your ticket states, as one ticket might have a service as invalid but another off peak ticket there are no problems using it on that service. No doubt someone will provide examples
No wonder why staff and passengers both get confused :?

 

[Moonshot]

I propose we reduce subsidy on the railways by abolishing the Two Together Railcard. All of those people getting cheaper tickets when they could be paying full price!

Think you have been outvoted on this one Im afraid - democracy in action.

I have got another idea though which can get you free travel on Northern Rail. You get a free pass if you volunteer as a station adopter....so there you go, you can travel as much as you want anywhere on the Northern Network if you give up a little of your spare time.

 

[maniacmartin]

I propose we reduce subsidy on the railways by abolishing the Two Together Railcard. All of those people getting cheaper tickets when they could be paying full price!

When two people travel by rail together the cost would ordinarily double. However, if they were taking a car together, the cost per person is effectively half of one person taking the car. Thus, the railways must offer a more lucrative deal to people travelling in groups to get their business at all.
This is what the Two Together railcard is addressing.

 

[Starmill]

I have got another idea though which can get you free travel on Northern Rail. You get a free pass if you volunteer as a station adopter....so there you go, you can travel as much as you want anywhere on the Northern Network if you give up a little of your spare time.

Not for new adopters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Think you have been outvoted on this one Im afraid - democracy in action.

When was there a vote?

 

[maniacmartin]

When was there a vote?

There was probably a vote between representatives of different TOCs at an ATOC meeting, if that counts.

 

[Moonshot]

Not for new adopters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


When was there a vote?

See post 216.

 

[Starmill]

There was probably a vote between representatives of different TOCs at an ATOC meeting, if that counts.

'Democracy in action' ?

 

[Moonshot]

i ve just remembered this one.....Metrolink do a ticket which covers all travel on the network from 6pm on a Friday night until the last service on Sunday. It costs £5.80. So there you go.....you can in effect travel for 3 evenings for less than £2 per evening. Now that is actually cheaper than the Ranger Ticket equivalent anyway.

 

[Starmill]

It's valid on Trams Only

 

[Crossover]

It's valid on Trams Only

Plenty M5000's to keep one amused for a while

 

[Crossover]

Yes I know ....in the Greater Manchester Area.....same as the soon to be abolished Evening ranger......in the Greater Manchester Area.

The Evening Ranger is valid on trains....

 

[Busaholic]

A meaningless statistic in this context.

Average cost by distance maybe, but then you should take into account local economic circumstances. Northern residents shouldn't be paying the same amount per mile as those from the South East if average wages aren't as high.

That would make train fares down here in Cornwall the lowest in the country, which they're certainly not: nor do we get any free or subsidised concessionary pass use on trains. Still, when Cameron arrives shortly for his annual photo-op (sorry, holiday) he won't feel tempted by the cheap fares to pop to the shops in Penzance, so the rest of us won't have to put up with the accompanying sniffer dogs.

 

[TOCDriver]

Have TfGM not got a say in abolishing the evening ranger ticket?

 

[Merseysider]

Think you have been outvoted on this one Im afraid - democracy in action.

I have got another idea though which can get you free travel on Northern Rail. You get a free pass if you volunteer as a station adopter....so there you go, you can travel as much as you want anywhere on the Northern Network if you give up a little of your spare time.

That sounds like a great idea actually. I can find info about it online but nowhere to apply. Any clues?

 

[theblackwatch]

There is a lot of personal conversation on here which is off topic and has been removed. If you wish to continue this, please do so via PM.

 

[Moonshot]

Have TfGM not got a say in abolishing the evening ranger ticket?

Not sure to be honest, but they are having there own issues anyway with funding themselves - been some layoffs there.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Not sure to be honest, but they are having there own issues anyway with funding themselves - been some layoffs there.

I would have thought they must have been seeing as lots of the fares involved are PTE fares anyway. Ditto in West Yorkshire.

It was quoted on this forum that at a TfGM meeting they had to save money, so they decided to keep free train travel for bus pass holders, but decided to sack their own office staff and stop funding night buses to save money.

WYPTE however decided to increase the amount paid for train travel by bus pass holders, whilst maintaining bus service levels in general, but re tendering to get better prices and reducing some routes.

SYPTE decided to withdraw all free or reduced travel for bus pass holders.

Nearby North Yorkshire just decided to virtually eliminate all tendered bus services whilst also reducing the amount it paid the bus companies, resulting in huge savings for them but a virtually non existent bus network away from large towns and rural tourist services paid for by other organisations.

Wouldn't it be sensible with a common transport policy!

 

[muz379]

Overall it will likely cause more confusion and I dread to see the day we end up with a train advertised as "Off Peak tickets not valid" when, of course, for a longer journey that may be complete tosh!



You weren't on the same one as me were you - the one I had back in June was doubled up. I got a table on the 156 though, whilst from Middlesbrough the crowds descended mostly on the 142 - goodness only knows why!

I think introducing peak time restrictions is going to cause a lot of confusion for quite a while .

Its also going to cause problems because Guards will inconsistently apply the rules like is currently the case with having to purchase at staffed stations before boarding . How many Guards currently dont apply the rules in relation to that rigidly and will still sell a full range of tickets to passengers who have boarded at a station where they shold have purchased . Meaning when a passenger comes across a Guard that applies the rules as they should be there is confusion .

I did Travel to whitby in june btw .But I didnt think that many people got on the 142

i ve just remembered this one.....Metrolink do a ticket which covers all travel on the network from 6pm on a Friday night until the last service on Sunday. It costs £5.80. So there you go.....you can in effect travel for 3 evenings for less than £2 per evening. Now that is actually cheaper than the Ranger Ticket equivalent anyway.

Is that actually better value for money though given that you can only travel to the limited range of Metrolink destinations ?

 

[Moonshot]

I would have thought they must have been seeing as lots of the fares involved are PTE fares anyway. Ditto in West Yorkshire.

It was quoted on this forum that at a TfGM meeting they had to save money, so they decided to keep free train travel for bus pass holders, but decided to sack their own office staff and stop funding night buses to save money.

WYPTE however decided to increase the amount paid for train travel by bus pass holders, whilst maintaining bus service levels in general, but re tendering to get better prices and reducing some routes.

SYPTE decided to withdraw all free or reduced travel for bus pass holders.

Nearby North Yorkshire just decided to virtually eliminate all tendered bus services whilst also reducing the amount it paid the bus companies, resulting in huge savings for them but a virtually non existent bus network away from large towns and rural tourist services paid for by other organisations.

Wouldn't it be sensible with a common transport policy!

I think if you look at this in a holistic manner, Government policy for rail is to transfer the running costs from the taxpayer to the fare payer. Rail per se has been very fortunate over the last few years in that the state has been prepared to fund investment in lieu of the private sector ( which certainly wouldnt fund HS2 for example ).

I m of the opinion that the follow on from this fare rise in Manchester will be some closures of smaller stations in the region which have very low footfall.

 

[northwichcat]

There are fifteen different restriction codes to cover the various routes and journeys, the majority of the differences are morning restrictions that already exist, however there are two different evening restrictions, one for Hexham-Newcastle and one for the rest. For completeness, the codes are ND, NE, NF, NG, NH, NI, NJ, NK, NL, NM and NR for Off-Peak Day and Ranger tickets, and NN, NO, NP and NQ for Duo tickets

Will Buxton still have the very early end to the morning peak?

Whilst Warrington Bank Quay to Manchester is likely to be on ATW (you could use Northern all the way) it is issued as Warrington Stns to Manchester Stns, which also covers Northern, FTPE and EMT services from Warrington Central.

I would imagine the inclusion of Warrington is down to TfGM providing a subsidy for peak time strengthening on the stopping services between Manchester and Liverpool. They also subside strengthening on services to Buxton, New Mills and Southport. I'm not sure about Alderley Edge though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It was quoted on this forum that at a TfGM meeting they had to save money, so they decided to keep free train travel for bus pass holders, but decided to sack their own office staff and stop funding night buses to save money.

The over 60s free travel is something which can result in commercial bus routes getting more tax payers money than contracted subsided services. While with Metrolink and rail services it's possible certain services have more passengers travelling on a tax payer funded pass than who are paying a fare.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I m of the opinion that the follow on from this fare rise in Manchester will be some closures of smaller stations in the region which have very low footfall.

It could have the opposite effect. People travelling from Alderley Edge, which is subject to the evening peak restrictions, instead buy tickets from Chelford, apparently no subject to the evening peak restrictions and consequently boost the ticket sales to/from a small village station.

While on the other hand people who previously split their tickets at the PTE border (to take advantage of off-peak day returns within the TfGM area never being more than £4.20) stop splitting tickets and then the stations at the PTE border like Blackrod, Hale, Glazebrook etc. see a drop in ticket sales.

 

[radamfi]

Day Rovers? That's an irritant. Especially as I have a stock I have already bought. Can they change the conditions in retrospect?

Wyorks restrictions used to be very confusing until they were (genuinely) simplyfied so all off-peak tickets (including day rovers) were valid after 0930. Looks like a giant step backwards.

Wonder when they're going to start telling people. My wife and I are off on a family day rover at 1630 today - if it wasn't valid we'd probably be driving.

The old West Yorkshire system of peak and off-peak tickets was out of step with the rest of the country, but if I remember right the system was singles only, so fairer, and singles were a lot more expensive after the change. However, even then the Day Rover was valid in the afternoon peak. So people got a Day Rover to avoid the afternoon peak.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Will Buxton still have the very early end to the morning peak?.....

There is no specific indication, in the brief, of which codes are applied to which journey, but I wouldn't expect it to change too much. When the fares data is uploaded (probably next week) I'll have a check.

 

[bb21]

Restriction text for Buxton - Manchester Stns Off-Peak Day Return,

Restriction : NR

OUTWARD TRAVEL

Valid on trains timed to depart between 0815 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.

RETURN TRAVEL

Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

For Duo fare,

Restriction : NO

OUTWARD TRAVEL

Valid on trains timed to depart between 0900 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.

RETURN TRAVEL

Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

Valid any Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.

NOT valid Saturdays or Sundays during December.