Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[amcluesent]

I hope the plans include carriages with First Class section on East Kilbride-Glasgow Central line

 

[reb0118]

Pourquoi?

 

[jopsuk]

That certainly won't happen

 

[cf111]

I hope the plans include carriages with First Class section on East Kilbride-Glasgow Central line

I think these will continue with the current trains (156s).

 

[reb0118]

I hope the plans include carriages with First Class section on East Kilbride-Glasgow Central line

I think these will continue with the current trains (156s).

I seem to remember Class 156s on the E&G route, branded as SuperSprinters. I'm sure these had 1st Class - well you got an antimacassar and maybe a cup of tea?

 

[sprinterguy]

I seem to remember Class 156s on the E&G route, branded as SuperSprinters. I'm sure these had 1st Class - well you got an antimacassar and maybe a cup of tea?

156s have never had first class. Class 158 Express units, which did have first class, were introduced onto the Edinburgh to Glasgow route, replacing the class 47 powered push-pull sets. Just checked online, however, and it appears that 156s destined for the Far North line were used on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route for an interim period in order to free up DBSOs for the Great Eastern main line. Perhaps a portion of the standard class seating was designated as first class during this period?

 

[reb0118]

156s have never had first class, however, it appears that 156s destined for the Far North line were used on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route for an interim period. Perhaps a portion of the standard class seating was designated as first class during this period?

Yes, the first two tables of four I think were classified as 1st as a stop gap. These trains were not really suitable for this role. One of the major bug bears was when the windows were open you couldn't hear yourself think - I believe someone did a noise test whist travelling through the tunnels and the train failed some noise pollution thingamajig.

 

[cf111]

156s have never had first class. Class 158 Express units, which did have first class, were introduced onto the Edinburgh to Glasgow route, replacing the class 47 powered push-pull sets. Just checked online, however, and it appears that 156s destined for the Far North line were used on the Edinburgh to Glasgow route for an interim period in order to free up DBSOs for the Great Eastern main line. Perhaps a portion of the standard class seating was designated as first class during this period?

I can't remember the FNL 156s having a 1st section but it was a good while ago now so I could be wrong. The 158s always have, there used to be a door before they were refurbished but that's because they can run Inverness-Aberdeen trains.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A question not yet answered and it wont be for some time is will the new boys (and girls?) keep the Fife Circle LHCS peek services? There stock plans don't seem to include any major changes for the first year or 2 and as the Borders line needs 158s and as Northern, which will to start with be kind of a Sister TOC may well want there 158s back, plus Abellios fascination with HSTs and quite possibly other Locos too I can see it staying as cant see how they'd replace it?

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps a portion of the standard class seating was designated as first class during this period?

There was the emergency stock utilisation when the 158s were all withdrawn temporarily, shortly after introduction, after a pair split in service.

Absolutely anything and everything was put into place to keep services running.

I believe a between-diagram HST was used by Scotrail to run a suburban service.

I certainly remember the 156s being absolute hammered on the Glasgow-Aberdeens to try and keep to 158 timings. So it wouldn't be a surprise if they had been temporarily allocated 1st class seating.

 

[clc]

Transport Scotland has tweeted that the Steam specials will be a 2-yr pilot on at least 4 routes. Email [email protected] for more details.

http://twitter.com/transcotland/status/520235764521914368

 

[Chrism20]

I must admit I like the idea of intercity standard rolling stock being used and am all for the odd bit of nostalgia with steam etc, however given how the emphasis has been on making sure decent rolling stock and new trains were used by First I'm really surprised that this proposal by Abellio got the nod.

Don't get me wrong I love HSTs and think they are great, however realistically what state are they going to be in come 2025 when the franchise ends?

The fare proposals etc sound great and they will be a damn site more comfortable than a 170 but I can't help but feel that Scotrail is being turned into a working museum.

 

[Butts]

I hope the plans include carriages with First Class section on East Kilbride-Glasgow Central line

Never mind East Kilbride - Falkirk Grahamston - Glasgow Queen Street needs some decent rolling stock with 1st Class and some non-stop (when I'm on them) services.

 

[oldman]

I must admit I like the idea of intercity standard rolling stock being used and am all for the odd bit of nostalgia with steam etc, however given how the emphasis has been on making sure decent rolling stock and new trains were used by First I'm really surprised that this proposal by Abellio got the nod.

Don't get me wrong I love HSTs and think they are great, however realistically what state are they going to be in come 2025 when the franchise ends?

The fare proposals etc sound great and they will be a damn site more comfortable than a 170 but I can't help but feel that Scotrail is being turned into a working museum.

The starting point was that the intercity routes should have intercity trains - a new-build diesel fleet would be unaffordable, so we get the old (iconic, hugely popular) HSTs. Low capital, high recurrent costs. Come 2025 we get something else, cascaded Voyagers perhaps.

The scheduled steam was a Scotsman story and should be taken with a healthgiving shovel-full of salt.

 

[Clip]

The starting point was that the intercity routes should have intercity trains - a new-build diesel fleet would be unaffordable, so we get the old (iconic, hugely popular) HSTs. Low capital, high recurrent costs. Come 2025 we get something else, cascaded Voyagers perhaps.

The scheduled steam was a Scotsman story and should be taken with a healthgiving shovel-full of salt.

Post #341 says differently.

 

[The Ham]

The starting point was that the intercity routes should have intercity trains - a new-build diesel fleet would be unaffordable, so we get the old (iconic, hugely popular) HSTs. Low capital, high recurrent costs. Come 2025 we get something else, cascaded Voyagers perhaps.

Voyagers/Meridians could be possible, however it should also be borne in mind that (IIRC) Scotland wants to have a rolling program of electrification. Depending on how fast that is undertaken; by 2025 to 2027 (as the new franchise may need a few years to take delivery of new trains after the start of the franchise) some of the routes could benefit from bi-modal trains, or even (although less likely) new intercity EMU's.

 

[Chrism20]

The starting point was that the intercity routes should have intercity trains - a new-build diesel fleet would be unaffordable, so we get the old (iconic, hugely popular) HSTs. Low capital, high recurrent costs. Come 2025 we get something else, cascaded Voyagers perhaps.

The scheduled steam was a Scotsman story and should be taken with a healthgiving shovel-full of salt.

High recurrent costs is the issue. The older they get the more troublesome they are likely to get regardless of how many miracles the engineers can work on them. This will lead to increased costs, increased delay repay, the fuel bill will go up and the reliability will suffer which will result in fines for poor performance. I'll hazzard a guess that has not been worked into the tender, I really hope it works but this could be a really costly excercise.

 

[Altnabreac]

Voyagers/Meridians could be possible, however it should also be borne in mind that (IIRC) Scotland wants to have a rolling program of electrification. Depending on how fast that is undertaken; by 2025 to 2027 (as the new franchise may need a few years to take delivery of new trains after the start of the franchise) some of the routes could benefit from bi-modal trains, or even (although less likely) new intercity EMU's.

You would imagine to justify the refurbishment costs at least a 10 year deisgn life will be specified for the HSTs.

Given the refurbished HSTs won't commence full operation for Scotrail until 2018 this should take them to around 2028 or perhaps slightly later.

That is getting close to the dates when at least Edinburgh / Glasgow - Aberdeen is likely to be electrified and I would anticipate the next franchisee to be keeping HSTs until new electric stock is introduced on those routes.

I suspect Perth - Inverness and Aberdeen - Inverness will not be electrified soon enough for HSTs to survive so there may need to be another DMU or Hybrid unit used in the interim for those services, perhaps a Voyager or hybrid IEP.

 

[Photohunter71]

Noticed the design of the Hitachi EMU's,2 designs infact,so which ones are we getting? The ones with the corridor ends or ones with no corridor ends? Have abellio said?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think with Gangways.

 

[Gadget88]

Never mind East Kilbride - Falkirk Grahamston - Glasgow Queen Street needs some decent rolling stock with 1st Class and some non-stop (when I'm on them) services.

Do you think this new company will finally open a station at Grangemouth would be ideal for the Glasgow/Falkirk train..it currently terminates at Falkirk..goes away and comes back..shame it can't just start at Grangemouth.

 

[Butts]

Do you think this new company will finally open a station at Grangemouth would be ideal for the Glasgow/Falkirk train..it currently terminates at Falkirk..goes away and comes back..shame it can't just start at Grangemouth.

I doubt it :cry:

 

[Altnabreac]

Do you think this new company will finally open a station at Grangemouth would be ideal for the Glasgow/Falkirk train..it currently terminates at Falkirk..goes away and comes back..shame it can't just start at Grangemouth.

It won't be the new franchisee who develops any new stations. They need to be taken forward by local councils and then backed by Regional Transport Partnerships, Transport Scotland and hopefully local developer contributions.

Winchburgh, Robroyston, East Linton and Reston are all ahead of it in the queue having got this political and financial backing and then been included in the Franchise Tender as priced options.

However the good news is that Grangemouth station is still vaguely on the agenda. SEStran mentioned it in their board minutes back in January:
http://www.sestran.gov.uk/files/1390317318.pdf

Albeit in the context of their being no developer funding identified to help take it forward further.

There is a £30m Scottish Stations Fund that could potentially help but it needs political support and probably also funding from Falkirk Council. It may also be behind Bonnybridge in Falkirk's new station priorities.

Can't emphasise enough that what is needed is local councillors to be arguing the case and encouring linked development activity. You can see in neighbouring West Lothian how successful that combination has been.

If you live locally start writing to / hassling your local councillors to make the case for Grangemouth. These things don't happen without people making it clear to councillors that there might be a political benefit from supporting such schemes.

Once Scottish government ministers catch on to that local demand you can move a project quickly right up the agenda. Linlithgow & East Falkirk and Falkirk East are marginal constituencies at both Westminster and Holyrood which should help the political case so long as local people are seen to be strongly demanding it.

 

[Gadget88]

How will Winchbrough work? There's a tunnel on the main line to Edinbrugh so if it's on the Dalmeny chord which services could they run along this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Any word on Bannockburn aswell?

 

[WatcherZero]

Was thinking the £1.90 evening ranger fare in Greater Manchester was considered too cheap by the government. Thats as nothing to the £5 anywhere in Scotland by intercity lines advance fare Abellio is planning.

 

[reb0118]

Winchbrough

Winchburgh. Burgh laddie, we're north o' the border.

If the station was to situated on the branch then this would have to be in conjunction with the Almond Chord to allow services to be routed via the Fife Lines into Edinburgh.

 

[Starmill]

Was thinking the £1.90 evening ranger fare in Greater Manchester was considered too cheap by the government. Thats as nothing to the £5 anywhere in Scotland by intercity lines advance fare Abellio is planning.

And Advance First! Correct me if Im wrong, something ScotRail current don't bother with?

 

[Essexman]

And Advance First! Correct me if Im wrong, something ScotRail current don't bother with?

I used one from Perth to Inverness a few weeks ago.

 

[Altnabreac]

How will Winchbrough work? There's a tunnel on the main line to Edinbrugh so if it's on the Dalmeny chord which services could they run along this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Any word on Bannockburn aswell?

Winchburgh station will be located to the north of the tunnel on the main Edinburgh - Glasgow line.

This is to the north of the current village but that's not a problem as it's at the centre of a large new development of several thousand homes, a new town centre, schools and a new motorway junction on the M9.

It will be served by stops in the 2tph Edinburgh - Stirling trains so even if Dalmeny Chord were to open in future there would need to be 2tph on the old main line to provide the Edinburgh Park connections.

 

[matchmaker]

Any word on Bannockburn aswell?

The problem with Bannockburn is that the railway is some distance from the nearest houses.