Use of Horns

[mtbox]

I always whistle up when kids wave.
Especially if they have a nice mummy

 

[cjmillsnun]

There is TOWS in a tunnel on a route that I sign but it is a single track in a double bore. They won't allow it otherwise unless a Signaller controls movements accordingly and or drivers are warned first. That's why the rules were changed and in any case, the last thing they would want to hear is a train horn. It's an almighty din without.

Have you asked P/way gangs about that? They might well say the opposite.

 

[Anchorman_02]

Have you asked P/way gangs about that? They might well say the opposite.

I would more than welcome their input on what there instructions are and what their preference would be.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I always whistle up when kids wave.
Especially if they have a nice mummy

I think that is still in the rule book

 

[Jamesb1974]

I always whistle up when kids wave.
Especially if they have a nice mummy

Yes, currently to be found in module M1LF.

 

[plastictaffy]

I always hear it was for the guard incase he wondered why it was passed at danger?


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Usually when a signal is to be passed at danger, the pilot will get on the blower to the rear gunner and tell him which signal he is passing at danger and why. The horn, as previously stated, is used to warn workers on the track. I believe the rule book also says something like you must pass it at a speed low enough to stop in case of an obstruction on the line. Someone may now come along and write it down word-for-word!!!

 

[CAF397]

I sign a route where a footpath crossing with Whistle Boards has a local instruction published in the WON/PON to use two tones. I do t see the point of a double whistle board on the same post.

I sound my horn approaching stations I'm not calling at if people are close to the edge. I believe it's been taken out of the rule book, but I sound my horn passing a stationary train on a running line (not station) in case the driver is out examining his train.

Like a few have said, the rule 'at any other time the driver deems necessary' covers quite a bit.

 

[carriageline]

Usually when a signal is to be passed at danger, the pilot will get on the blower to the rear gunner and tell him which signal he is passing at danger and why. The horn, as previously stated, is used to warn workers on the track. I believe the rule book also says something like you must pass it at a speed low enough to stop in case of an obstruction on the line. Someone may now come along and write it down word-for-word!!!

Being prepared to stop short of any obstruction has been taken out, we only tell drivers to proceed at caution now (well, as per the rule book anyway)


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[Anchorman_02]

Being prepared to stop short of any obstruction has been taken out, we only tell drivers to proceed at caution now (well, as per the rule book anyway)


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Quite right, so it has. However as drivers we are expected to be able to stop in the distance we see to be clear when under caution.

 

[BritishRail83]

Has it? Wasn't aware. Nevertheless, I WILL still be blowing a long blast on the horn when passing a signal at danger.



You Bobbies might be getting more and more rare, but those men in orange outfits are bloody everywhere! The horn gets blown!

I agree

 

[Anchorman_02]

I agree

I agree too. It's the rule.

 

[carriageline]

Quite right, so it has. However as drivers we are expected to be able to stop in the distance we see to be clear when under caution.

I think thats the reason it was removed, telling you to proceed at caution AND prepare to stop short of an obstruction is a pointless as they are one and the same (ie if your driving at caution you are prepared to stop short, and vice versa)


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[Anchorman_02]

I think thats the reason it was removed, telling you to proceed at caution AND prepare to stop short of an obstruction is a pointless as they are one and the same (ie if your driving at caution you are prepared to stop short, and vice versa)


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Yes. Like saying over and out, it's obviously over if it's out

 

[ASharpe]

I thought this was relevant to this tread:

From a RAIB report released today.

Just before 23:58 hrs, train 1J76 approached Bridgeway UWC, travelling at
around 85 mph (137 km/h). The train driver sounded the train horn when he saw
a vehicle parked on the crossing (railway rules do not require the train horn to be
routinely used at such crossings between 23:00 hrs and 07:00 hrs). At about the
same time, the track worker realised the train was approaching and jumped from
the trolley to the side of the van. Two to three seconds later, the train struck the
trolley. The train missed the back of the van by a margin that was possibly as
small as 100 mm.

Blowing of the horn wasn't required in that situation but it either did or easily could have saved a welder's life.

 

[GB]

It was required in that situation as there was an obstruction/people on the line.

 

[Anchorman_02]

It was required in that situation as there was an obstruction/people on the line.

Exactly, he only blew the horn because there was something on the crossing.

 

[ASharpe]

Maybe I'm a little confused about exactly what happened, a few paragraphs earlier it says

Upon arrival, he opened the crossing gate, reversed the van towards (but not onto) the
up line

Made me think the van wasn't on the crossing.

 

[Llanigraham]

Maybe I'm a little confused about exactly what happened, a few paragraphs earlier it says



Made me think the van wasn't on the crossing.

If you read a bit further you will not that it states the train only missed the van by less than 100mm and the driver reported to his control that he thought he had hit a vehicle on the crossing.
The vehicle was inside the gates, therefore it was technically ON the crossing.

 

[dwaynedibleyuk]

If you are placing your emergency protection and come accross a tunnel, you place 3 dets 20m apart on the exit side of the tunnel, then you should not walk through the tunnel, but should find another way round to the other side of the tunnel where you continue walking to your 2km point. So why would you need to blow your horn incase someone is in the tunnel placing their emergency protection as they shouldnt be there?

 

[GB]

You go through the tunnel to lay your protection if there is no other way round. It's not always going to be feasible to scale 100s of metres of rock, cliff and dirt.

 

[theageofthetra]

I would like to see someone find another way round on the down approach to Polhill tunnel! Helicopter maybe!

 

[Llama]

If you are placing your emergency protection and come accross a tunnel, you place 3 dets 20m apart on the exit side of the tunnel, then you should not walk through the tunnel, but should find another way round to the other side of the tunnel where you continue walking to your 2km point. So why would you need to blow your horn incase someone is in the tunnel placing their emergency protection as they shouldnt be there?

What?!

You walk forward through the tunnel in case a train approaches, in which case you immediately place three detonators (if possible) - note the rulebook doesn't state these are to be 20m apart - and show a hand danger signal, taking care for your own safety.

 

[driver9000]

What?!

You walk forward through the tunnel in case a train approaches, in which case you immediately place three detonators (if possible) - note the rulebook doesn't state these are to be 20m apart - and show a hand danger signal, taking care for your own safety.

Yes they should be 20 metres apart, the RSSB has acknowledged the omission as a mistake on their part.

It should also be clarified that you place dets at both ends of the tunnel if the protection distance is inside the tunnel. Quite correct in that you walk through the tunnel, you can't give a danger signal if you're busy fell walking over it!

 

[Llama]

'Approaching train' is still an exception to the 20yds apart because it is recognised (and the RSSB acknowledged this) that if a train approaches you must put what dets down you can without endangering yourself - legging it on ballast 70 yards (det, 20, det, 20, det, then 30 yards safe distance) then trying to display a hand danger signal isn't going to be very easy in a lot of situations.

 

[Anchorman_02]

If you are placing your emergency protection and come accross a tunnel, you place 3 dets 20m apart on the exit side of the tunnel, then you should not walk through the tunnel, but should find another way round to the other side of the tunnel where you continue walking to your 2km point. So why would you need to blow your horn incase someone is in the tunnel placing their emergency protection as they shouldnt be there?

Do you work on the railway?

 

[455driver]

What?!

You walk forward through the tunnel in case a train approaches, in which case you immediately place three detonators (if possible) - note the rulebook doesn't state these are to be 20m apart - and show a hand danger signal, taking care for your own safety.

You dont lay dets in tunnels except for assistance protection, you then carry on through to the end of the tunnel and await the arrival of the rescue train.

In practice, if you are walking through a tunnel to lay emergency protection most people would lay at least one det before getting to a position of safety and covering your ears, they wont write that in the rule book because of the H&S implications of being near a det when it goes off in a tunnel, that is going to be seriously loud and could possible damage your hearing.

 

[TDK]

Hmmm, well it's a pity you haven't kept up with your rules knowledge. Sounding the horn when passing a train in a station wasn't removed in the last round of changes to the rules surrounding the use of the horn, it was removed years ago.

Rules changes aren't done for the sake of it or to confound the opinion of those that think they know better - they are done for a reason and by people that think carefully about changing them and are highly qualified to do so. The railway is a safer place as a result.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. 3 days after the rules changes a young lad was killed at Oakengates tunnel, if the driver had sounded his horn on this occasion the youth may still be alive now. On passing Craven arms at 90mph I sounded the horn as a train was in the platform as I sounded it someone stuck their head out from behind the train if I hadn't sounded the horn he would now be dead so safer certainly not - people friendly for noise pollution certainly yes.

 

[Nym]

Yes. Like saying over and out, it's obviously over if it's out

Actually, no it's not.

"Over" and "Out" mean different things...

Over expects a response from the station(s) being called unless excluded by an explicit ack. request of part of a CC group that is defined to have certain respondents.

Out does not expect a response, and a response should not be given.

Therefore "Over and out" is wrong on so many levels, and shouldn't be used if any kind of radio procedures worth anything are being used.

 

[Anchorman_02]

Actually, no it's not.

"Over" and "Out" mean different things...

Over expects a response from the station(s) being called unless excluded by an explicit ack. request of part of a CC group that is defined to have certain respondents.

Out does not expect a response, and a response should not be given.

Actually it is. If you say out you are by definition not expecting anything else so that ends and overrides the over part. You've just confirmed what I said.

 

[Bigfoot]

Actually, no it's not.

"Over" and "Out" mean different things...

Over expects a response from the station(s) being called unless excluded by an explicit ack. request of part of a CC group that is defined to have certain respondents.

Out does not expect a response, and a response should not be given.

Therefore "Over and out" is wrong on so many levels, and shouldn't be used if any kind of radio procedures worth anything are being used.

Much like people saying Roger or Roger that. I usually quip if I'm feeling that way a remark about not being rogered by anyone I see at work!

 

[Llanigraham]

Sorry but you are completely wrong. 3 days after the rules changes a young lad was killed at Oakengates tunnel, if the driver had sounded his horn on this occasion the youth may still be alive now. On passing Craven arms at 90mph I sounded the horn as a train was in the platform as I sounded it someone stuck their head out from behind the train if I hadn't sounded the horn he would now be dead so safer certainly not - people friendly for noise pollution certainly yes.

90mph at The Arms??
Really?