ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[High Dyke]

Don't worry... Once HS2 is built then 'normal' services should be diverted over that route between London and the 'minor cities' that Central Government / Media don't seem to acknowledge. That way proper track replacement / repair / upgrade can take place in the areas that really need it.

For a start how about re-instating long lifted tracks alongside existing locations; where it was removed many years ago as a cost-saving exercise?

 

[PHILIPE]

I haven't spotted anything yet about any explanations, apologies on behalf of EC. I may be wrong, however, but lots of pages and posts on the thread to go through now.

 

[Capybara]

I travelled from Harrogate to London on Saturday so was caught up in it. I wasn't as incovenienced as many, or even most, as I caught the direct train and got a nice seat from the start. I'm not a big claimer, only for very big delays, but this was one so I put in a claim on line. I've had this today:

disruption2712

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your recent Delay Repay application, in regard to the disruption to East Coast services on Saturday 27th December 2014. Firstly, we would like to offer our sincere apologies for your difficult journey experience, which as you are aware was as a direct result of over-running engineering works just outside of King’s Cross. Please be assured that we will be working closely with our infrastructure partner Network Rail, and other relevant parties, to understand fully what went wrong, and to ensure lessons are learned to prevent a similar incident occurring in the future.

As a gesture of goodwill for the disruption and inconvenience to your travel plans, your claim will, on this occasion only, be paid in cash by BACs transfer. In order for us to facilitate this quickly, please provide the details requested below by return to this email address ([email protected]). Your payment will then be made as quickly as possible although, in view of the holiday, period please do allow 14 working days for the transfer to be made.

Bank Name and branch:

Sort Code:

Account Number:

Journey from and to:

Fare paid:

Many thanks again for your understanding of this difficult situation, and our very best wishes for 2015.

With kind regards,

cid:[email protected]

Customer Relations Department – Managing Director’s Office

East Coast

The email looks genuine enough, apart from some not brilliant punctuation, and I'm not sure how any malicious party would know I'd put in a claim. But I really don't like the idea of sending bank details by email and they are asking for details (of the journey) I've already supplied. Has anyone else had this? And I'm happy with vouchers anyway.

 

[bramling]

On previous occasions, I don't think they've done anything other than turn back from the Up Fast platform - that's the only option that doesn't involve a shunt via Highbury Vale and the single line towards Canonbury (do EC drivers sign this, and is the stock cleared?). This time, they did actually shunt some across to the Down Fast platform via the north end of the station to start back from there, in an attempt to segregate the passenger flows once things started to go wrong - that still left the bottleneck of the subway, and I'd guess that the queue for Down trains would soon have extended back into there anyway even if they'd been shunting across right from the start. That's where holding northbound passengers outside the station would have helped - but, as SPADTrap suggests, that's probably much easier said than done (especially with understandably frustrated passengers combined with the general selfish attitude that seems common nowadays).

Given the situation I'd have been tempted to suspend the whole East Coast operation south of Grantham, at least the Great Northern side of things would then have been unaffected. Anyone arriving at Grantham unable to get southwards would have always had the option to return to where they started.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If this had overran into a Monday morning rush hour, then for most of the people affected, it will result in one of the return journeys out of the 220 they make every year being horrendous.

Instead, it overran into 27th December, meaning that a significant proportion of people affected will be those who make very few rail journeys each year - leaving them with a perception of the railway as unreliable. So the impact of the overrun on the railway's reputation was likely worse on 27th than if it had overran into a Monday morning rush hour - regardless of the scale of the real impact.

Of course, this still leaves the question of who, if anyone, deserves to be blamed for what happened. As someone looking on from the outside, it seems that what happened was:

1. Someone made the decision for the ECML work to be scheduled at time which meant that if it overran the other main route north of London (and the only other route from London-Scotland) had a planned closure
2. Network Rail (or their subcontractors - but it amounts to the same thing) didn't complete their work on time
3. The TOCs affected struggled to cope with the aftermath

So far, all the focus seems to be on #2

Of course, overruns in to Monday mornings are not unusual. Indeed, on this very route I can think of at least two Mondays in the past 3 months where overruns have occurred south of Stevenage, with severe disruption lasting well in to the afternoon. Didn't degenerate into total chaos though, as generally commuters know what they are doing, despite the probability that these incidents involved larger numbers of people than on the 27th.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Don't worry... Once HS2 is built then 'normal' services should be diverted over that route between London and the 'minor cities' that Central Government / Media don't seem to acknowledge. That way proper track replacement / repair / upgrade can take place in the areas that really need it.

For a start how about re-instating long lifted tracks alongside existing locations; where it was removed many years ago as a cost-saving exercise?

Something that should also help a bit is that HS2 will be completely, properly shut between 0000 and 0500 Mon-Sat and 0000 and 0800 on Sunday. In this time, the engineering crews will have a full blockage of the entire route, including the termini (i.e. no ECS moves either) so some of the work that currently requires proper blockages can be schedules in that time. The route can also be designed in such a way that crucial parts can be replaced more quickly and more easily than they can today.

 

[TUC]

Given the situation I'd have been tempted to suspend the whole East Coast operation south of Grantham, at least the Great Northern side of things would then have been unaffected. Anyone arriving at Grantham unable to get southwards would have always had the option to return to where they started.

How would that have helped anyone except those only wanting to travel within the South East?

 

[bramling]

How would that have helped anyone except those only wanting to travel within the South East?

It would have prevented the Finsbury Park debacle, the reports on here combined with what I've been told from those who were there, suggest at times the overcrowding was bordering on dangerous.

It would have helped those making routine journeys, for example, getting in to and from work, as opposed to being delayed for hours due to the place being crowded out by what were effectively tourists.

If there was no mechanism in place for the long-distance passengers to reach London via East Coast, the service should have been withdrawn and people forced to travel on alternative days when the service was available.

(I can't wait for Christmas to be over and everything back to normal, and I wouldn't be sorry to never hear about Christmas again!).

 

[PG]

I travelled from Harrogate to London on Saturday so was caught up in it. I wasn't as incovenienced as many, or even most, as I caught the direct train and got a nice seat from the start. I'm not a big claimer, only for very big delays, but this was one so I put in a claim on line. I've had this today:



The email looks genuine enough, apart from some not brilliant punctuation, and I'm not sure how any malicious party would know I'd put in a claim. But I really don't like the idea of sending bank details by email and they are asking for details (of the journey) I've already supplied. Has anyone else had this? And I'm happy with vouchers anyway.

Assuming you didn't request payment by BACS then I'd be wary of submitting your account details via an unsecured method ie email. Although the probability of your details getting into the wrong hands is probably minimal do you want to risk it? I'd be tempted to reply saying you're happy to receive RTVs. I've yet to hear back about my delay repay claim, though I'm not expecting to for a while yet since I submitted mine by good old fashioned post

 

[Zoidberg]

I travelled from Harrogate to London on Saturday so was caught up in it. I wasn't as incovenienced as many, or even most, as I caught the direct train and got a nice seat from the start. I'm not a big claimer, only for very big delays, but this was one so I put in a claim on line. I've had this today:



The email looks genuine enough, apart from some not brilliant punctuation, and I'm not sure how any malicious party would know I'd put in a claim. But I really don't like the idea of sending bank details by email and they are asking for details (of the journey) I've already supplied. Has anyone else had this? And I'm happy with vouchers anyway.

Mentioned in http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110143)

Forgive bruske re sponse ... using awkward mobile device.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks. I didn't spot that.

 

[Tomnick]

Given the situation I'd have been tempted to suspend the whole East Coast operation south of Grantham, at least the Great Northern side of things would then have been unaffected. Anyone arriving at Grantham unable to get southwards would have always had the option to return to where they started.

I think that'd have been even more badly received by the majority of the public - and the ever-present media! At least running as far as Peterborough (perhaps a limited service to minimise the reliance on London crews) would allow them to take their chance on a suburban train onwards. Perhaps things would have been easoer at Finsbury Park with a slightly more frequent service of suburban-layout EMUs. What was the situation with access to Hornsey depot though - was it actually blocked by a possession, and was this planned?

 

[talltim]

Maybe our lovely Government ought to give NR enough money to sort the network out then, instead of cutting their budget year after year in the name of 'efficiencies'!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Which was made public about 6 months ago, but lets all make it sound like he is jumping because of the Christmas eff up! :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why?
Was this failure down to NR then?
What about the Contractors and whoever was responsible for the planning and implementation of of the schedule for the renewals?

Errm, that would be Network Rail's contractors and Network Rails's planners..

 

[6Gman]

It would have prevented the Finsbury Park debacle, the reports on here combined with what I've been told from those who were there, suggest at times the overcrowding was bordering on dangerous.

It would have helped those making routine journeys, for example, getting in to and from work, as opposed to being delayed for hours due to the place being crowded out by what were effectively tourists.

If there was no mechanism in place for the long-distance passengers to reach London via East Coast, the service should have been withdrawn and people forced to travel on alternative days when the service was available.

(I can't wait for Christmas to be over and everything back to normal, and I wouldn't be sorry to never hear about Christmas again!).

I can't let that one pass without comment. None of us know why people were travelling. I'm sure some had spent Christmas with friends/families and were back at work on Sunday (or even late Saturday). Tourists?

 

[Hadders]

It's easy to be wise after the event and I don't know whether what I've proposed below would have worked but I'd have done something like this:

1. Terminate all EC trains at Peterborough or Stevenage. It was taking too long to board and alight passengers at FPK due to fewer doors on the trains.

2. Run all GN trains as a minimum of 8 carriages and ideally 12. The 12 carriage trains to run Peterborough-Stevenage-Finsbury to mainly convey displaced EC passengers (dispatchers are needed for 12 carriage trains which Peterborough and Stevenage both have)

3. Direct Cambridge passengers via the West Anglia line into Liverpool Street (Could Abellio have strengthened these trains at short notice?)

4. Use the stock and drivers freed up from Cambridge trains to strengthen as many Peterborough trains as possible and run as many additional services as could be reasonably turned at FPK.

5. Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield and Potters Bar to be served by the inner suburban trains only. Run these non stop through Finsbury Park to relieve pressure on that station.

6. Get staff from Kings Cross to Finsbury Park to set up one-way system in the station etc.

7. Operate a queuing system outside Finsbury Park in a similar way to how Cardiff Central operates when there is rugby at the Millennium Stadium.

 

[work-traveller]

I was having a pleasant breakfast on Sunday until Maureen Lipman was invited to review the papers on Broadcasting House (BBC R4). She started by launching into a tirade against Network Rail () or as she calls it 'Network') for having the 'sheer discourtesy' and 'stupidity' to 'have building works at Christmas'. I found myself shouting 'so when do you suggest that essential engineering work that can't be cracked off in a Saturday night possession should be undertaken?'.

It was a great example of an ill-informed puffed up public figure wittering on about something they patently know nothing about. Still - she got a round of applause, which I suspect was her main aim.

You can hear the oracle for yourself at 43m 40s:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjz06

 

[Marton]

I was having a pleasant breakfast on Sunday until Maureen Lipman was invited to review the papers on Broadcasting House (BBC R4). She started by launching into a tirade against Network Rail () or as she calls it 'Network') for having the 'sheer discourtesy' and 'stupidity' to 'have building works at Christmas'. I found myself shouting 'so when do you suggest that essential engineering work that can't be cracked off in a Saturday night possession should be undertaken?'.

It was a great example of an ill-informed puffed up public figure wittering on about something they patently know nothing about. Still - she got a round of applause, which I suspect was her main aim.

You can hear the oracle for yourself at 43m 40s:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjz06

Heard this as well and was shouting at the radio.

I do wonder if part of the chaos was passengers hearing of a problem and turning up early

 

[leightonbd]

That, to me, seems to be where it all went wrong - the TOCs came up with a contingency plan that appeared workable, possibly with some minor issues, from an operating point of view. Whether that plan was sufficient to shift the numbers of people involved on this occasion, I don't know, but something similar has certainly worked without all this fuss on other occasions - and indeed the planned service, significantly reduced, probably wouldn't have provided much more capacity. Clearly Finsbury Park was overwhelmed by the volume of passengers travelling both in and out, and things quickly got out of control from there, totally destroying the train service in the process. Although the root cause was clearly down to Network Rail and its contractors, I think the TOCs have a few questions to answer too and, more importantly, a few opportunities to learn from the experience.

My read on this would be that as many trains as possible were moved, and good effort by EC in doing so, but the number of tix sold way exceeded this; and the fundamental problem is: 'you sell me a ticket (with a res), I expect to travel'. So punters show. It was clear that probs would build up through the day. I felt, on the whole, confident, putting my mum on the 930 from EDB (connecting to a 4 pm train at Paddington) and the EDB train got to Ally Pally just 26 down, but then it took 2 hrs to get into Finsbury Pk and you could see then just how bad it would be. All that could have been projected forward earlier in the day with a more realistic arrival time, better expectations, etc.

Prob 1: Don't sell tix you can't fulfil. Build in more margin on the works.
Prob 2: fess up early, very early, if things are going wrong.
Prob 3: the UK world thinks the railway is a single entity. Educate them!
Prob 4: the Uk (not just the railway) is a creaking infrastructure. We want to be a nuclear power, but we can't build staples! [probably wrong thread! sorry]

 

[carriageline]

Is it just me who feels that Network Rail are taking an awful lot of flack undeserved?

Granted, the reason people were delayed was because of overrunning engineering works. Which was unacceptable, but it's not unheard of and happens sometimes, but the world moves on. I doubt (at Fins pk) that's specifically why customers were cheesed off.

what I mean is, if better crowd control was set up at Finsbury Park, more staff and better directions and thus the station remained open, customers could of kept on the move and eventually got where they needed to be.

From what I saw and heard, people where cheesed off that they was locked out side, and didn't know where to go or what to do. The TOCs should of managed that better, granted time was against them, but still. The lack of customer service is on their head.

End of the day, NR are not in the business of transporting people, the TOCs are and thus the passengers are (mainly) their responsibility. NR getting the blame for TOC failing is particularly unfair in my eyes

 

[Aictos]

Other issue was limited resources, you have x number of coaches so how do you decide what frequency to use them - for example do you run Hertford to Enfield Chase and allowing passengers to continue their journey on London Buses or do you run Hertford to Finsbury Park calling all stations? I prefer the former but was told the latter was preferred if possible.

Then you need to think about routes from Stevenage to Cambridge and Peterborough, the only part of the route which had a 100% punctuality record that day was the prebooked Rail Replacement service between Hertford and Stevenage.

Granted Network Rail isn't fully to blame but like the TOCs they need to take responsibility, for example why detrain when the station is already full? Peterborough services could have turned round at Welwyn GC with the Cambridge slows terminating at Finsbury Park with the Kings Lynn services terminating at Cambridge with the Inners going into Moorgate.

But then again, what do I know?

 

[Antman]

I was having a pleasant breakfast on Sunday until Maureen Lipman was invited to review the papers on Broadcasting House (BBC R4). She started by launching into a tirade against Network Rail () or as she calls it 'Network') for having the 'sheer discourtesy' and 'stupidity' to 'have building works at Christmas'. I found myself shouting 'so when do you suggest that essential engineering work that can't be cracked off in a Saturday night possession should be undertaken?'.

It was a great example of an ill-informed puffed up public figure wittering on about something they patently know nothing about. Still - she got a round of applause, which I suspect was her main aim.

You can hear the oracle for yourself at 43m 40s:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vjz06

In fairness I've heard others expressing similar sentiments indeed we seem to have the same arguments every year

 

[Tomnick]

Granted Network Rail isn't fully to blame but like the TOCs they need to take responsibility, for example why detrain when the station is already full? Peterborough services could have turned round at Welwyn GC with the Cambridge slows terminating at Finsbury Park with the Kings Lynn services terminating at Cambridge with the Inners going into Moorgate.

Why should Network Rail take responsibility for those decisions? They can't really be held responsible for anything beyond the overrunning possession.

Given that Cambridge passengers had an alternative route, into Liverpool Street (albeit one that probably couldn't be strengthened at short notice), surely it'd make sense to give preference to getting Peterborough trains into Finsbury Park?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When Kings Cross was completely shut, were all lines into the station physically unavailable (eg sections of track on each line lifted for replacement) or was there at least one line intact that a diesel top&tailed shuttle could have used?

 

[najaB]

When Kings Cross was completely shut, were all lines into the station physically unavailable (eg sections of track on each line lifted for replacement) or was there at least one line intact that a diesel top&tailed shuttle could have used?

It was stated earlier in the thread that all lines were blocked. The plan was for single line working for at least part of the 27th but it was not possible.

 

[quarella]

I found this contribution on a BTL comment in the Guardian.

* Around once an hour, an East Coast train from the North arrived and tried to disembark its passengers onto already crowded platforms. These arriving passengers had to force their way, single-file, through the crowd and eventually out into the fume-filled bus station.

I was hoping for one of the few remaining traditional enclosed bus stations with the reference to fume filled...
https://goo.gl/maps/C79Rl
I expect a number of the buses were hybrids too.

The key to success is to move all the disembarking passengers out of the station before allowing any of the embarking passengers in. Any terminus station is organized like this. At King's Cross, embarking passengers wait in the Departure Hall and are not allowed onto the platform until the train is empty. (Eurostar is the same.)

Where to queue? And I have noticed after events such as the six nations at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff a few passengers take to Twitter to complain about being "Kettled".

I stood unmoving within 10 feet of the station entrance before giving up and going home

But this journalist appears to have X-Ray eyes and could see what has happening on the platform.

 

[Richard1960]

Reading through this thread anbout the ECML dealys and csancellations due to overunning engineering work,reminds me of the old line from" Fawlty Towers" The Germans "However did they win"

 

[Bald Rick]

When Kings Cross was completely shut, were all lines into the station physically unavailable (eg sections of track on each line lifted for replacement) or was there at least one line intact that a diesel top&tailed shuttle could have used?

Yes all lines had either a big hole in them or an engineering train on them to service one of said big holes.

 

[Aictos]

Why should Network Rail take responsibility for those decisions? They can't really be held responsible for anything beyond the overrunning possession.

Given that Cambridge passengers had an alternative route, into Liverpool Street (albeit one that probably couldn't be strengthened at short notice), surely it'd make sense to give preference to getting Peterborough trains into Finsbury Park?

I agree but they do still signal trains, I know they're not entirely to blame but why couldn't East Coast run a amended service with services starting/terminating at Peterborough with GN services given priority south of Peterborough?

The other question, I know it's all planned years in advance but could not a total block of Kings Cross be took originally with services amended to reflect this?

 

[najaB]

The other question, I know it's all planned years in advance but could not a total block of Kings Cross be took originally with services amended to reflect this?

There was a planned total block from end of service on the 24th, through to start of service on the 27th. That was the problem - the work overran and they could not lift the block on the 27th. If you are asking if the block could have been padded to give some leeway, I'm sure that it was but the problem/failure was one that wasn't foreseen.

I'm also pretty sure that one of the questions that will be asked is if there was an opportunity to back out of any of the work once it became apparent that there would be schedule issues, or if they were too far down a critical path by then.

 

[45107]

The other question, I know it's all planned years in advance but could not a total block of Kings Cross be took originally with services amended to reflect this?

That is the case when possessions are planned - timetables are amended. On Saturday it was an 'emergency' situation and the plan was done at short notice.

 

[Tomnick]

I agree but they do still signal trains, I know they're not entirely to blame but why couldn't East Coast run a amended service with services starting/terminating at Peterborough with GN services given priority south of Peterborough?

The other question, I know it's all planned years in advance but could not a total block of Kings Cross be took originally with services amended to reflect this?

The contingency plan, with EC running 2tph to Finsbury Park, would've worked perfectly well from a train running point of view though, and would probably have coped reasonably well with the passenger flows if the station hadn't been overwhelmed - after all, that wasn't dissimilar to the planned level of service. There's no reason, on that basis, for Network Rail to insist on turning the whole lot back at Peterborough - any decision of that sort really ought to be led by the TOC under those circumstances. It's certainly not for Network Rail to be making decisions relating to crowd control, and the impact on the train service, at a station that they don't operate.

The plan to run with SLW over two lines rather than keep the block on was no doubt influenced by the enormous pressure to convey passengers throughout by train throughout wherever possible, rather than resorting to replacement buses or other alternatives for part of the journey. There's certainly been a lot of criticism over recent years, a lot of it justified, levelled against the industry for failing to use measures such as SLW, diversionary routes and so on to avoid the use of buses. What would be the point anyway? If the engineering programme allows for two lines to be available by Saturday, why not plan to use them? I doubt that a planned service turning back at Finsbury Park (as has been done in the past) would look very much different to the hastily-arranged contingency anyway.