Battery powered Electrostar to go into passenger carrying trials

[theageofthetra]

Network Rails press office have just tweeted this- am not familiar on the line involved. How long is it and will this train be an improvement over the existing stock?


http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...n-carries-passengers-for-first-time-2230.aspx

Batteries included: Prototype battery-powered train carries passengers for first timeThe first battery-powered train to run on Britain’s rail network in more than half a century carries its first passengers this week. This marks an important milestone in the project to demonstrate the viability of an eco-friendly battery-powered train for the twenty-first century.

The new train contributes to Network Rail’s commitment to reduce its environmental impact, improve sustainability and reduce the cost of running the railway by 20 per cent over the next five years. It could ultimately lead to a fleet of battery-powered trains running on Britain’s rail network which are quieter and more efficient than diesel-powered trains, making them better for passengers and the environment.

Network Rail and its industry partners – including Bombardier, Abellio Greater Anglia, and the Rail Executive arm of the Department for Transport (‎which is co-funding the project through the FutureRailway innovation programme) – recognise the potential for battery-powered trains to bridge gaps between electrified parts of the network and to run on branch lines where it would be too expensive to install overhead electrification.”

Following its successful retrofitting and trials at test tracks in Derby and Leicestershire last year by Bombardier, the modified Class 379 Electrostar battery-powered train – also known as an Independently Powered Electric Multiple Unit (IPEMU) – will run in weekday timetable service for five weeks between Harwich International and Manningtree stations in Essex.

Network Rail Principal Engineer James Ambrose said: “We’ve made terrific progress with this project so far and seeing the battery-powered train in timetabled service is a huge step forward....

 

[TheKnightWho]

Will this render electrification obsolete on all but high-speed lines and diversionary routes?

 

[snowball]

Will this render electrification obsolete on all but high-speed lines and diversionary routes?

Unlikely. Has been discussed in several threads recently. Could be useful for some short branches and other specific situations.

 

[Murph]

Will this render electrification obsolete on all but high-speed lines and diversionary routes?

I doubt it. Expensive rolling stock sitting in valuable platforms charging up is not a good business model. I think the niche is being able to run onto relatively short branches or over gaps in electrification, and some self-rescuing ability for OHLE failure, but that it's always going to be desirable to have the major (non high speed) routes wired as a whole.

 

[snowball]

It hasn't prevented the recent full approval for electrification from Oxenholme to Windermere.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I doubt it. Expensive rolling stock sitting in valuable platforms charging up is not a good business model. I think the niche is being able to run onto relatively short branches or over gaps in electrification, and some self-rescuing ability for OHLE failure, but that it's always going to be desirable to have the major (non high speed) routes wired as a whole.

That makes sense. Presuming batteries can last that long, I imagine long, rural routes that serve little to no diversionary purpose could benefit, where the expense of building a "charging yard" for a small number of dedicated trains to run the route (or whatever) is less than the cost of electrifying the route as diesel is phased out: the HoWL, north Scottish lines and some others spring to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That makes sense. Presuming batteries can last that long, I imagine long, rural routes that serve little to no diversionary purpose could benefit, where the expense of building a "charging yard" for a small number of dedicated trains to run the route (or whatever) is less than the cost of electrifying the route as diesel is phased out: the HoWL, north Scottish lines and some others spring to mind.

Windermere would be ideal were it not being wired. Other similar lines might benefit, e.g. Barrow if the batteries last that long (a short OHLE section could perhaps be erected in Barrow station to charge for the way back).

Neil

 

[TheKnightWho]

Presuming this could become standard on all electric trains for rescuing purposes, could OHLE not be erected on certain places deemed of particular importance if they have a particularly famous view or are expensive to wire? I'm thinking long tunnels, the Ribblehead viaduct etc.

That being said, I can imagine batteries would incur a rather low speed limit, and compatibility with legacy non-battery stock would be considered more important. I can't imagine freight locomotives working particularly well under battery power either, even for short distances.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presuming this could become standard on all electric trains for rescuing purposes, could OHLE not be erected on certain places deemed of particular importance if they have a particularly famous view or are expensive to wire? I'm thinking long tunnels, the Ribblehead viaduct etc.

As a train takes a mile to stop from full speed *using the brakes* and can coast a very long way, coasting is often the solution to this problem, though obviously requires careful signal placement to ensure the train does have enough kinetic energy to make it the whole way.

No fancy technology needed, just drop the pan.

Neil

 

[TheKnightWho]

As a train takes a mile to stop from full speed *using the brakes* and can coast a very long way, coasting is often the solution to this problem, though obviously requires careful signal placement to ensure the train does have enough kinetic energy to make it the whole way.

No fancy technology needed, just drop the pan.

Neil

I've never heard of this ever being implemented, though. Even the Royal Border Bridge has wires.

And there are quite a few places where that wouldn't work - Ribblehead, being just next to a station, would indeed require the fancy technology.

 

[swt_passenger]

Presuming this could become standard on all electric trains for rescuing purposes,

It's never been suggested anywhere I've seen that all EMUs would get battery support. This subject (as well as the general principle) has been discussed in a number of previous threads.

The likely scenario is that only a small proportion of a TOCs fleet necessary to run on their relevant 'short branches' would be modified.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As a train takes a mile to stop from full speed *using the brakes* and can coast a very long way, coasting is often the solution to this problem, though obviously requires careful signal placement to ensure the train does have enough kinetic energy to make it the whole way.

No fancy technology needed, just drop the pan.

Neil

It was supposedly seriously suggested for the Royal Border Bridge. Absolutely useless for any up train starting from Berwick though...

I think it was mentioned for the Thames bridge at Maidenhead as well, same problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never heard of this ever being implemented, though. Even the Royal Border Bridge has wires.

And there are quite a few places where that wouldn't work - Ribblehead, being just next to a station, would indeed require the fancy technology.

If they're wiring the S&C they should wire the viaduct. It won't look *that* ugly. Other lines have plenty of attractive viaducts with wires on them, e.g. Stockport (albeit not in quite as attractive scenery).

Neil

 

[170401]

One obvious implementation of this technology could be over the Forth bridge where their are some major issues with designing the knitting due to proximity of the steel structures on the bridge.

Electrification could cease at Dalmeny and resume at Inverkeithing leaving the bridge and tunnels intact and potentially saving hundreds of millions off the electrification bill.

One consideration is the lowering and raising of pantographs, particularly if done on the move. Would drivers be left with the responsibility or could track balisses be placed to automatically carry this out in a similar way to Pendolinos receiving trackside instructions to tilt?

 

[starrymarkb]

As a train takes a mile to stop from full speed *using the brakes* and can coast a very long way, coasting is often the solution to this problem, though obviously requires careful signal placement to ensure the train does have enough kinetic energy to make it the whole way.

No fancy technology needed, just drop the pan.

Neil

Who said you need to drop the pan

 

[455driver]

It hasn't prevented the recent full approval for electrification from Oxenholme to Windermere.

Thats because that branch works as a self contained line most of the time and so the train wouldnt be able to recharge the batteries anywhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Who said you need to drop the pan

Such a simple solution, of course it would never happen over here as it didnt cost £20million to carry out all the safety case,environmental impact, CBRs etc.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Thats because that branch works as a self contained line most of the time and so the train wouldnt be able to recharge the batteries anywhere.

That makes it easier, doesn't it? You're not clogging up platforms with charging trains, etc.

I've no idea how long these batteries last, though. If it's only an hour or two then that would cause issues anywhere.

 

[455driver]

TheKnightWho said:

That makes it easier, doesn't it? You're not clogging up platforms with charging trains, etc.

I've no idea how long these batteries last, though. If it's only an hour or two then that would cause issues anywhere.

The batteries will only last 1* hour or so and need 3* hours for a full charge, if you are running up and down the (non electrified) branch line all day where are you going to charge the batteries up?


* my figures.

 

[36270k]

In Germany Battery units of Class 515 ran successfully on secondary routes from the 1950's

 

[Bletchleyite]

The batteries will only last 1* hour or so and need 3* hours for a full charge, if you are running up and down the (non electrified) branch line all day where are you going to charge the batteries up?

Is it that simple?

There's a trial operating on my local bus route in Milton Keynes using inductively charged electric buses. They get a full charge overnight, but a top-up charge for 15 minutes or so at each end of the 1-and-a-bit hour long route which is enough to keep them going all day.

As a rail vehicle has more space for batteries than a bus (but is heavier) is the same thing workable?

Entertainingly, the buses have a diesel-powered heater

Neil

 

[HSTEd]

Those busses roll a few miles at low speed.

Not really the same thing as trains.
Total electrification should still be the goal - the future is an intensively operated railway or nothing.

 

[59CosG95]

Total electrification should still be the goal - the future is an intensively operated railway or nothing.

Quad-track, 24tph on the Looe branch should be interesting.

 

[Bright Boy]

Will this render electrification obsolete on all but high-speed lines and diversionary routes?

It would be great if it could render overhead wires obsolete, even on main lines, if they can improve the battery technology.

It would be much safer and cheaper, I'm not sure how much better it will be for the environment though ?

 

[fergusjbend]

I've never heard of this ever being implemented, though. Even the Royal Border Bridge has wires.

And there are quite a few places where that wouldn't work - Ribblehead, being just next to a station, would indeed require the fancy technology.

It happens on the 3rd rail network at the Kingsferry lifting bridge on the Sheerness branch - the unelectrified section is about 25m long!

 

[90sWereBetter]

I notice the press release states that the 379 will only be running to Harwich International, and not up to the end of the branch at Harwich Town. Is the 379 not cleared for the rest of the route or something? Or is it simply a mistake in the wording?

I'll try and get a journey on this unit sometime next week if I can.

 

[snowball]

Thats because that branch works as a self contained line most of the time and so the train wouldnt be able to recharge the batteries anywhere.

That makes it easier, doesn't it? You're not clogging up platforms with charging trains, etc.

Isn't the point that an ideal application for a battery train would not only include regular operation away from the wires but also regular operation under the wires so that it can charge up while also earning revenue.

 

[306024]

I notice the press release states that the 379 will only be running to Harwich International, and not up to the end of the branch at Harwich Town. Is the 379 not cleared for the rest of the route or something? Or is it simply a mistake in the wording?

I'll try and get a journey on this unit sometime next week if I can.

Simply a mistake, runs to Harwich Town.

Network Rails press office have just tweeted this- am not familiar on the line involved. How long is it and will this train be an improvement over the existing stock?

11 mile branch line, double track to London side of Harwich International then single line to Harwich Town. The train is an improvement over the 321s and 360s that normally work the Harwich branch, except it won't be staying there. The Harwich branch was chosen as the most suitable location for testing, mainly because it would do less damage there if it failed completely. The 379 will be back on Stansteds and Cambridges when the trials finish.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The batteries will only last 1* hour or so and need 3* hours for a full charge, if you are running up and down the (non electrified) branch line all day where are you going to charge the batteries up?


* my figures.

I remember once having a holiday at Centre Parcs, and my father hiring some bikes for the week for us to use. On those bikes were electric devices called lights. Those lights were not powered by batteries, third rails, or overhead wires. They had a device which generated electricity from the rotating movement of the wheel.

 

[Stompehh]

I remember once having a holiday at Centre Parcs, and my father hiring some bikes for the week for us to use. On those bikes were electric devices called lights. Those lights were not powered by batteries, third rails, or overhead wires. They had a device which generated electricity from the rotating movement of the wheel.

Not sure what your point is?

 

[HSTEd]

Quad-track, 24tph on the Looe branch should be interesting.

If we are quad tracking it should support at least 48tph

But seriously, lightly used lines are never going to cover costs.
London Overground shows the way.

 

[NotATrainspott]

One obvious implementation of this technology could be over the Forth bridge where their are some major issues with designing the knitting due to proximity of the steel structures on the bridge.

Electrification could cease at Dalmeny and resume at Inverkeithing leaving the bridge and tunnels intact and potentially saving hundreds of millions off the electrification bill.

One consideration is the lowering and raising of pantographs, particularly if done on the move. Would drivers be left with the responsibility or could track balisses be placed to automatically carry this out in a similar way to Pendolinos receiving trackside instructions to tilt?

However, that section of line has a large number of services from all over the country run over it, meaning you would need to fit batteries to every train that could ever possibly want to run there. Electrifying it properly will be expensive but it won't be unjustified.