Class 387

[D365]

My understanding was as the 12 car Class 700/1s are introduced the start of the Class 387s to GW begins (Unless it isn't energised yet).

The projected timescale for the transfer of the 29 Class 387/1 units to FGW has been posted here.

As the Class 700's begin to take over TL services the 377s will cascade to the Kings Cross - Kings Lynn line. Releasing the 365s to Cascade to GW. Slowly the Class 700s will take over the whole of TL/GN (Except Kings Lynn).

You're wrong on that count. The service to Kings Lynn is an extension of the Cambridge fasts, where up to 23 377/5s will (regretfully for the fans) replace 21 units of the Class 365 fleet, but we retain 19 units for the Peterborough peak semi-fasts.

Not sure about the Hertford North line?

Remains in the hands of the Class 313 to Moorgate, until the replacement fleet is introduced.

 

[jopsuk]

there's a new fleet, yet to be tendered for, that will be used on the Hertford loop. More specifically, it'll be used for Moorgate (which will be open longer)/Kings Cross to Welwyn, Hertford North and Stevenage via Hertford North. New platform for terminating services to be built at Stevenage, with Letchworth losing Moorgate services (it'll have 4tph through Thameslink). Moorgate fleet to be fixed-formation, 6 car/120m units (as long as can be used on the branch).

Off peak on the GN it'll essentially be three* separate operations- Thameslink, with 2tph Peterborough-Horsham, Cambridge-Brighton & Cambridge- Tattenham Corner, using 700s; GN express 2tph Kings Lynn - Kings Cross (non stop south of Cambridge) using 377s and Moorgate metro services using unknown-as-yet units.

 

[Class377/5]

Folks the GN will see the following fleets in 2018

21x 365
19x 377
25-ish Moorgate replacement units (ITT now out)
lots of 700s

And back onto topic of the 387s, here's the new diagrams...

387 24 diagrams from the May timetable changes are as follows...

(Note that they aren't currently all being filled as expected)

301/302
5W02 05+00 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W02 05.30 Brighton to Bedford
1W15 08.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W26 11.08 Brighton to Bedford
ATTACH
1W37 13.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.54 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+32 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

303/304
5W04 05+15 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
2W23 08.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W30 11.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W43 13.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
1W92 16.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W57 18.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W68 21.30 Brighton to Bedford
5G68 00+18 Bedford to Bedford CS

305/306
5W06 05+30 Lovers Walk to Brighton
1W06 06.04 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W39 14.24 Bedford to Brighton
1B46 17.26 Brighton to London Bridge
1B51 18.43 London Bridge to Brighton
2W64 19.56 Brighton to Bedford
2W79 22.42 Bedford to Three Bridges

307
5Y05 04+51 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W05 05.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W87 08.00 Brighton to Bedford
SPILT
5W87 10+42 Bedford to Bedford CS
ATTACH
1W37 13.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.54 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+32 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

308/309
5Y05 04+51 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W05 05.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W87 08.00 Brighton to Bedford
SPILT
1W25 10.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.30 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+28 Brighton to Lovers Walk

310/311/312
5Y13 07+22 Bedford Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W13 07.48 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 10.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W35 13.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W94 16.24 Brighton to Bedford
5Y94 19+02 Bedford to Bedford Jowett Sidings

313/314
5G91 02+31 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W91 02.42 Bedford to Brighton
1B00 05.48 Brighton to London Bridge
1B05 07.11 London Bridge to Brighton
1W16 08.36 Brighton to Bedford
1W27 11.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W38 14.08 Brighton to Bedford
1H95 16.50 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 18.30 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W65 20.22 Bedford to Brighton
2W80 23.36 Brighton to Bedford
5W80 02+38 Bedford to Bedford CS

315/316
5G93 02+46 Bedford CS to Bedford via North End Siding
2W93 03.42 Bedford to Brighton
1W08 06.19 Brighton to Bedford
1W19 09.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W30 12.08 Brighton to Bedford
1W41 14.54 Bedford to Brighton
1B48 17.56 Brighton to London Bridge
1B53 19.12 London Bridge to Brighton
5B53 20+34 Brighton to Lovers Walk

317/318
5G03 03+28 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W03 03.42 Bedford to Brighton
1W81 06.57 Brighton to Bedford
2W27 09.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W34 12.14 Three Bridges to Brighton
2W47 14.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G52 19+28 Bedford North End Siding
5W52 20+12 Bedford North End Siding to Bedford CS

319/320
5G01 04+04 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W83 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
5G23 10+00 Bedford to Bedford via North End Siding
1W23 10.24 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.08 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W69 21.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W69 00+14 Brighton to Lovers Walk

321/322
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G04 04+34 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W14 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
2W31 10.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W38 13.14 Three Bridges to Bedford
1H66 15.40 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G79 17.30 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W61 19.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W72 22.30 Brighton to Bedford
5G72 01+28 Bedford to Bedford CS

323/324
5G83 06+20 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H83 0.34 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 08.02 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1W21 09.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W32 12.38 Brighton to Bedford
1W43 15.24 Bedford to Brighton
1B50 18.28 Brighton to London Bridge
1B55 19.42 London Bridge to Brighton
1W66 21.02 Brighton to Bedford
5G66 23+48 Bedford to Bedford CS

 

[D365]

Folks the GN will see the following fleets in 2018

21x 365
19x 377

Fairly certain that GW is gaining 21 of the 40 365s: the remaining 19 are to be retained on GN.

 

[387star]

Thanks for new diagrams

 

[jopsuk]

Fairly certain that GW is gaining 21 of the 40 365s: the remaining 19 are to be retained on GN.

and the GN is getting all of the 377/5, which is 23 units

 

[Class377/5]

and the GN is getting all of the 377/5, which is 23 units

Don't be so sure. Franchise documents mention 19x 377 are getting fitted for work on ECML not 23.

 

[D365]

Don't be so sure. Franchise documents mention 19x 377 are getting fitted for work on ECML not 23.

Which means we are losing two more 365s than we are gaining in 377/5s; is that quite right?

 

[swt_passenger]

Which means we are losing two more 365s than we are gaining in 377/5s; is that quite right?

They don't need to balance up exactly though. The large number of 700s arriving and taking over what are currently GN services will be massively higher.

 

[Class377/5]

I need to check the documents but it made clear just how many units were being made fit for the signalling work post 2021. Any unit operating on the ECML will have to be made fit for in cab signalling.

One word of warning tho, the 365s aren't supposed to be used in the Cambridge route however the fate of the Welwyn semi fasts has not been mentioned. These use 365 last time I was on them and the 700s don't replace these services fully.

 

[traji00]

Will the remaining 365 replace the various 317/321 units?

 

[D365]

Will the remaining 365 replace the various 317/321 units?

Yes, the Class 317/321 fleets were always planned to be replaced.

 

[A-driver]

Will the remaining 365 replace the various 317/321 units?

Along with the 377s.

 

[G_A_C_C_C]

So there I was, trying to make my way to Wembley for the League 1 playoff final on Sunday and I thought I'd get a bit of 387 action from Farringdon to West Hampstead when 103 disgraced itself a St Pancras. Driver announced he was doing a reboot and the lights would go out. Delay, core blocked, trains backed up. Eventually everything came back on....and the train instantly turned into a fast service to Luton & Bedford. Bit of a bugger for me, but a total pain for the Luton Airport passengers....Chaos! I know that technically altering a diagram to relieve a backlog helps the train companies but, please, think of the customer! It took another 5 minutes, maybe longer to get all the airport passengers and baggage off the train. blocking the core for even longer. Then... comedy time. The doors closed, the lights went out, 103 just sat there. The platform staff run up to the cab...."The pan has dropped!" ... Not sure how, but closing the doors to depart had triggered the pantograph to drop!...further delay...pan raised, train left leaving half the passengers behind, to try and squeeze into a 4 car 319/4 that was following. Anyway all turned out well..we stuffed Swindon 4 - 0....and I now need to recover from a serious dose of alcohol

 

[hassaanhc]

So there I was, trying to make my way to Wembley for the League 1 playoff final on Sunday and I thought I'd get a bit of 387 action from Farringdon to West Hampstead when 103 disgraced itself a St Pancras. Driver announced he was doing a reboot and the lights would go out. Delay, core blocked, trains backed up. Eventually everything came back on....and the train instantly turned into a fast service to Luton & Bedford. Bit of a bugger for me, but a total pain for the Luton Airport passengers....Chaos! I know that technically altering a diagram to relieve a backlog helps the train companies but, please, think of the customer! It took another 5 minutes, maybe longer to get all the airport passengers and baggage off the train. blocking the core for even longer. Then... comedy time. The doors closed, the lights went out, 103 just sat there. The platform staff run up to the cab...."The pan has dropped!" ... Not sure how, but closing the doors to depart had triggered the pantograph to drop!...further delay...pan raised, train left leaving half the passengers behind, to try and squeeze into a 4 car 319/4 that was following. Anyway all turned out well..we stuffed Swindon 4 - 0....and I now need to recover from a serious dose of alcohol

Probably not the best idea to miss out Luton Airport Parkway. However, if it recovered the delay by Bedford then those travelling southbound from there on whatever was the unit's next working still managed to pick up a train. If it was terminated at Luton with the normal stops until there (something TfL would almost certainly do with their simplification) then both those travelling beyond Luton on that working, and those travelling south on the next working, would be affected, almost certainly with a longer gap for the southbound passengers. That would be as opposed to just those travelling to intermediate stations on the northbound.
Suppose it is something you'll not have consensus on, as viewpoints will differ depending on what journey you were making! I've been affected negatively by such changes in the past. But yes, Luton Airport Parkway stops probably shouldn't be missed out .

 

[petersi]

Welwyn semi fasts has not been mentioned. These use 365 last time I was on them and the 700s don't replace these services fully.

I am very confused.
By welwyn semi fastes are these the peak services that stop at places like New Barnet. Surly makes sense to use 313 replacements. Currently timed for 313 but can be any stock.

If it means the current xx.05 and xx.35. Does that mean the tatterham corner Cambridge will now be fast to Stevenage so other than Finsbury Park no station South of Stevenage is part of Thames link

 

[jon0844]

I think Potters Bar, Hatfield and WGC will get the 700s too, but Potters Bar and Hatfield can obviously only have 8 car sets.

My concern is that I can currently turn up at KGX and board a train at the platform, and of course many people do that for a while until departure. One day I'll need to be underground at St Pancras with loads of other people wanting other trains, to board my train in a very narrow window and that has already got people on it.

There's also a higher chance of it being late as some of those 05/35 trains are in the platform for some considerable time before leaving.

 

[Class377/5]

Potters Bar and Hatfield I believe are getting 12 car 700/1. SDO onboard will be as standard.

As for using the 313 replacement fleet, well they are needed for additional services on the Hertford Loop as well.

 

[A-driver]

Potters Bar and Hatfield I believe are getting 12 car 700/1. SDO onboard will be as standard.



As for using the 313 replacement fleet, well they are needed for additional services on the Hertford Loop as well.

Doubt that. The majority of 700s there will be the slow Cambridge and welwyns to places like Tattenham and caterham which will most likely be 8 car units as hardly any of the platforms they stop at will be 12 car. The 12s on the GN side will be used more on the fast services to Peterborough and cambs where almost all platforms are 12 cars long.

If nothing else, 12coach 700s won't be able to be used on the welwyn terminators as they won't fit within the points at welwyn station so won't be able to turn around again!

 

[387star]

In Rail magazine it mentions Aslef are against DOO then mentions the possibility the 387s will be DOO but as they are already DOO services surely a certainty!

 

[A-driver]

In Rail magazine it mentions Aslef are against DOO then mentions the possibility the 387s will be DOO but as they are already DOO services surely a certainty!

Aslef are against DOO in theory but foo already exists so they can't stop it where it's already in operation.

 

[physics34]

Doubt that. The majority of 700s there will be the slow Cambridge and welwyns to places like Tattenham and caterham which will most likely be 8 car units as hardly any of the platforms they stop at will be 12 car. The 12s on the GN side will be used more on the fast services to Peterborough and cambs where almost all platforms are 12 cars long.

If nothing else, 12coach 700s won't be able to be used on the welwyn terminators as they won't fit within the points at welwyn station so won't be able to turn around again!

Same at tattenham (9 car platforms) and caterham (8 car)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So there I was, trying to make my way to Wembley for the League 1 playoff final on Sunday and I thought I'd get a bit of 387 action from Farringdon to West Hampstead when 103 disgraced itself a St Pancras. Driver announced he was doing a reboot and the lights would go out. Delay, core blocked, trains backed up. Eventually everything came back on....and the train instantly turned into a fast service to Luton & Bedford. Bit of a bugger for me, but a total pain for the Luton Airport passengers....Chaos! I know that technically altering a diagram to relieve a backlog helps the train companies but, please, think of the customer! It took another 5 minutes, maybe longer to get all the airport passengers and baggage off the train. blocking the core for even longer. Then... comedy time. The doors closed, the lights went out, 103 just sat there. The platform staff run up to the cab...."The pan has dropped!" ... Not sure how, but closing the doors to depart had triggered the pantograph to drop!...further delay...pan raised, train left leaving half the passengers behind, to try and squeeze into a 4 car 319/4 that was following. Anyway all turned out well..we stuffed Swindon 4 - 0....and I now need to recover from a serious dose of alcohol

Extremely frustrating when they do this. Do the decision makers in the offices not realise airport passengers have heavy luggage and that there will be confused foreign pax who may not speak English etc etc??! I would be really be good to have a decision maker at platform level who can diagnose and remedy a situation on occasions like these.

 

[Class377/5]

Back on topic, 387129 is in service today. Leaves just 387101/102 not yet I service (pair are both on commissioning currently).

 

[Skimble19]

Potters Bar and Hatfield I believe are getting 12 car 700/1. SDO onboard will be as standard.

As for using the 313 replacement fleet, well they are needed for additional services on the Hertford Loop as well.

Hatfield is an odd one as there is more than enough room to extend the platforms for 12 cars.. Not too sure about Potters but know Welwyn would certainly be an issue (due to the issue mentioned above!).

 

[jon0844]

I'm amazed Hatfield didn't get at least platform 1 extended when the new car park was being built. I hope there's at least room to do it later?

Unless there's a longer term plan to further redevelop the station and use the land on the other side to redesign the platform 2/3 layout and even potentially give the station four platforms so fast line services could stop towards London?

Not sure how that would affect the down fast curve and speed limit.

Are there any such plans?

 

[A-driver]

I'm amazed Hatfield didn't get at least platform 1 extended when the new car park was being built. I hope there's at least room to do it later?

Unless there's a longer term plan to further redevelop the station and use the land on the other side to redesign the platform 2/3 layout and even potentially give the station four platforms so fast line services could stop towards London?

Not sure how that would affect the down fast curve and speed limit.

Are there any such plans?

No point extending Hatfield considering no other station south of Stevenage (including Welwyn) can be lengthened. The 8 car 365s etc are busy but generally not uncomfortably full. The design of the 700s will increase capacity anyway so I can't see them extending Hatfield unless they do a redesign of the other large stations around there.

 

[Deepgreen]

To haul us back to topic, the 0800 Brighton to Bedford overtook us at Purley this morning and it was the first 12 car class 387 formation I have seen in service.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Are 101 & 102 in revenue earning service yet ? If not does anybody know when this is likely ?

 

[AM9]

To haul us back to topic, the 0800 Brighton to Bedford overtook us at Purley this morning and it was the first 12 car class 387 formation I have seen in service.

I took this wobbly video on 28 May at ECR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JWXzEf6LAw

I think that it was on a Bedford-Three Bridges Service.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Are 101 & 102 in revenue earning service yet ? If not does anybody know when this is likely ?

The last two of the fleet (er 101 & 102) were delivered South of the river during last week iirc. So I would say earliest in service would be some time soon after Monday 22/06/2015. That will then be all of the 387/1s in service.

A pause for a while before the 387/2s (Gatwick Express permanent replacements) arrive but Class377/5 will know more exactly when than me. Then it is time for more threads about the possible uses for my favourite EMU - the beloved Class 442 !.