Todmorden Curve

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Because government money for the costs of the reopening came from a regeneration budget, not an investment for the railways budget. Whether it attracts the middle class commuters Burnley hopes for is another matter, I'm afraid the town is hardly a Ribble Valley or even a Calder Valley.

As one who has made a numbers of postings upon this thread and one who has followed it from its inception, there has been now many times upon this thread that only the rail part of the successful bid monies features in the minds of certain posters, starting from the matters that led up to the submission of the bid that the other (in the minds of Burnley Council) just as important part of the submission concerned a large reinvigoration of the Weavers Triangle in Burnley, but because this is a rail thread on a rail website, it appears that fact is totally unknown to a large numbers of contributors to this thread who only began to follow it in the post-successful bid submission for the grant.

 

[keith1879]

Couldn't resist the temptation to point out that despite lejog's comments Burnley is in fact in the Calder Valley. (Not THAT Calder Valley I grant you). On a more serious note - as a frequent user of the X43 bus in the past (not so much now) I can assure you that although it is comfortable it can be mind alteringly frustrating when it hits the Manchester traffic.

I think the rail service may yet prove to be a success.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the rail service may yet prove to be a success.

.....with Pacer enthusiasts being catered for occasionally, no doubt.....

Transdev have a lot to answer for, by putting new fleets of high-quality buses on the X43 "Lancashire Witch" bus route, as this is very unfairly raising expectations of the users of the new rail service will think that such standards would normally translate over to the unit provision of the rail service..:roll:

 

[keith1879]

Absolutely .... those leather clad seats are scandalous. How dare they?

 

[spongsdad]

It's worth reminding readers, who may question the wisdom of introducing a direct Burnley to Manchester connection, about the recent (in railway terms) history of train services over the Copy Pit route. Passenger services over this line were for many years confined to timetabled summer Saturday workings and, of course, excursion traffic. When rail services to Todmorden ceased in 1965, Burnley Manchester Road closed. The whole route over Copy pit was under threat of closure with the cessation of coal trains from the Yorkshire pits to the Lancashire power stations. The reopening of Manchester Road in 1986 was due, not to any initiative by British Rail but at the instigation of what became the National & Provincial Building Society, headquartered in Bradford, when the then Provincial Building Society took over the Burnley Building Society. That organisation was able to guarantee sufficient return journeys for morning and evening trains over this route. From this developed the Blackpool York interval service that runs throughout the day, seven days a week and which is well patronised.
The point is, that this is an initiative from a local authority and a county council which may not be particularly fruitful for some time but which could well become very profitable (in the widest sense) in the months and years to come

 

[Sox]

Couldn't resist the temptation to point out that despite lejog's comments Burnley is in fact in the Calder Valley. (Not THAT Calder Valley I grant you). On a more serious note - as a frequent user of the X43 bus in the past (not so much now) I can assure you that although it is comfortable it can be mind alteringly frustrating when it hits the Manchester traffic.

I think the rail service may yet prove to be a success.

Useful to have some anecdotal comment.

Did the X43 ever stick to its timetable at peak (workers) hours?

 

[keith1879]

I always used it on a Saturday to go to the match. Saturday evening after the crawl through the football traffic out of Burnley it would be fine till beyond Prestwich then just get absolutly stuck in Manchester traffic. Why they allow cars on Deansgate I really don't know. It's quicker to get off at Prestwich and get the metrolink - or get off at Victoria and walk than to stay on to the bus station. I assume that the morning rush hour is much the same.

 

[Flying Claret]

Keith. Weekday rush our is much the same, except you also get to crawl along the m66 past Bury and the stretch of the M62 before Prestwich. It can be a very long and somewhat unpredictable journey time, not ideal for a commute.

 

[chorleyjeff]

.....with Pacer enthusiasts being catered for occasionally, no doubt.....

Transdev have a lot to answer for, by putting new fleets of high-quality buses on the X43 "Lancashire Witch" bus route, as this is very unfairly raising expectations of the users of the new rail service will think that such standards would normally translate over to the unit provision of the rail service..:roll:

Not the usual felicitous words this time. A bit heavy handed?

 

[Deerfold]

Not the usual felicitous words this time. A bit heavy handed?

As sarcasm they appeared to be entirely felicitous.

 

[WatcherZero]

I know it was always known the service would require a pretty hefty subsidy from Lancashire CC, but surely all the suggestions of rather threadbare take up reflect poorly on backers who led what had been quite a successful media campaign for reinstatement.

 

[chorleyjeff]

As sarcasm they appeared to be entirely felicitous.

Quite so.
I would have expected subtle irony.

 

[WatcherZero]

East Lancashire rail study for Lancashire CC.

http://council.lancashire.gov.uk/documents/s63654/Appendix A Conditional Output Statement.pdf

Conclusion:

The data collection and problem identification exercise undertaken has supported
the local perception that East Lancashire’s rail network is relatively constrained in
terms of rail connectivity, capacity, performance, journey quality, journey times and
passenger facilities. If no investment is secured to improve East Lancashire’s rail
network it is likely to have a negative impact on future economic growth.

The current deficiencies in East Lancashire’s rail network can make it an
unattractive mode of travel. Subsequently the current rail usage within East
Lancashire is relatively low compared to neighbouring areas, with the percentage of
individuals travelling to work by train being lower in all Local Authority areas in the
core study area than the average for both the North West and England and Wales.
In addition, the current rail demand between East Lancashire and neighbouring City
Regions is relatively low.

And the suggested improvements that would bring the most value (not taking into account their cost and whether they would be economically deliverable)

Facility Improvements

Improve station facilities across the study area to meet Rail North’s SQS criteria which cover access facilities, information provision and passenger facilities.

Infrastructure Improvements

Electrification of the line between Clitheroe and Bolton.
Electrification of the line between Preston and Colne / Leeds (including the newly reinstated Todmorden Curve).
Journey time improvements on the Copy Pit line (the section between Todmorden and Burnley).

Service Improvements

Improve the quality of Rolling Stock operating on services in the core study area so that it is comparable with similar regional services in other parts of the country (for example, the rolling stock currently operating on the TransPennine Express Services between Manchester and Leeds).
Improve service frequency between East Lancashire and Central Manchester.
Add additional carriages to the existing peak services between Clitheroe and Manchester to increase capacity.
Improve service frequency between East Lancashire and Leeds.

 

[northwichcat]

A banner on Northern's Twitter feed promoting Manchester-Burnley/Accrington seems to show an interior with 2+1 seating: https://twitter.com/northernrailorg/status/606467180755091456

 

[spongsdad]

A banner on Northern's Twitter feed promoting Manchester-Burnley/Accrington seems to show an interior with 2+1 seating: https://twitter.com/northernrailorg/status/606467180755091456

Creative marketing, wouldn't you say?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Creative marketing, wouldn't you say?

I wonder what unit type is featured on that link, as its front end seems somewhat familiar.
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A banner on Northern's Twitter feed promoting Manchester-Burnley/Accrington seems to show an interior with 2+1 seating: https://twitter.com/northernrailorg/status/606467180755091456

2 + 1 seating now brings to mind complimentary catering refreshments. Will these be the traditional Lancashire ones, such as black puddings, tripe, cowheel stew, etc.

I am reminded of being brave enough to enter into one of the catering "establishments" in Accrington indoor market last year but not being brave enough to order "the speciality of the day"..."Turkey broth with dumplings"..

 

[po8crg]

The inset unit looks rather 323-ish to me.

But the interior! Those curved handles remind me of Pendo First Class seating. Several grades up from one of Newton Heath's Finest.

 

[Darren R]

A little bit tangential to the thread, but the Blackburn to Bolton Line closes completely for five weeks from Saturday 18th July, reopening Monday 24th August. This is to enable the upgrade works at Darwen.

During the closure, several bus replacement services are running, including a fast service between Clitheroe and Accrington (in the morning and evening peaks only) to connect with the Blackburn to Vic via Todmorden trains - a faster alternative for Clitheroe commuters than the bus to Bolton followed by train to Manchester.

I wonder if route restrictions on tickets between Blackburn and Manchester will be lifted for the duration.

 

[Flying Claret]

I wonder what unit type is featured on that link, as its front end seems somewhat familiar.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


2 + 1 seating now brings to mind complimentary catering refreshments. Will these be the traditional Lancashire ones, such as black puddings, tripe, cowheel stew, etc.

I am reminded of being brave enough to enter into one of the catering "establishments" in Accrington indoor market last year but not being brave enough to order "the speciality of the day"..."Turkey broth with dumplings"..

I caught the 7.26 from accy this morning. Somewhat of a mixed bag in terms of stock. A 150 with a pacer at the back. Definitely not 2+1 seating. The 150 was decent enough inside, have they had a refurb?
Passenger numbers not massive for what would have been the main commuter train of the day. About 12 at accy and 20 boarding at burnley. That said, by the time it got to Victoria it was standing room only across the 4 carriages.

 

[Sox]

A little bit tangential to the thread, but the Blackburn to Bolton Line closes completely for five weeks from Saturday 18th July, reopening Monday 24th August. This is to enable the upgrade works at Darwen.

During the closure, several bus replacement services are running, including a fast service between Clitheroe and Accrington (in the morning and evening peaks only) to connect with the Blackburn to Vic via Todmorden trains - a faster alternative for Clitheroe commuters than the bus to Bolton followed by train to Manchester.

I wonder if route restrictions on tickets between Blackburn and Manchester will be lifted for the duration.

Not so sure about the tangential bit as you post a good point. The temporary running arrangement will oblige additional people to use "the curve", thereby increasing familiarity/societal knowledge of an alternative rail route.

 

[Harlan Cage]

How long will it take Network Rail to do this, given that nearly everything they do is we'll behind schedule?

HC

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The inset unit looks rather 323-ish to me.

Is this just artistic creativity or are they telling us in a most indirect fashion that electrification is "on the agenda"....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How long will it take Network Rail to do this, given that nearly everything they do is we'll behind schedule?

HC

Another opportunity, perchance, for their "procrastination division" to plan their latest attack on the railway system in the manner they now are thought of as being Zen Masters...

 

[Darren R]

How long will it take Network Rail to do this, given that nearly everything they do is we'll behind schedule?

HC

Well the complete closure period is five weeks, but whether that will see the work completed I can't say; weekend closures continue until October. In the grand scheme of things it's not that big a job, and a good deal of preliminary work has already taken place.

 

[Flying Claret]

A little bit tangential to the thread, but the Blackburn to Bolton Line closes completely for five weeks from Saturday 18th July, reopening Monday 24th August. This is to enable the upgrade works at Darwen.

During the closure, several bus replacement services are running, including a fast service between Clitheroe and Accrington (in the morning and evening peaks only) to connect with the Blackburn to Vic via Todmorden trains - a faster alternative for Clitheroe commuters than the bus to Bolton followed by train to Manchester.

I wonder if route restrictions on tickets between Blackburn and Manchester will be lifted for the duration.

Journey planner is showing a bus from Clitheroe-blackburn on the out journey. However the return from manc vic, you change at accy for the replacement bus to clitheroe. Seems far more sensible to change at accy.

 

[northwichcat]

The 150 was decent enough inside, have they had a refurb?

Northern really have 3 categories of 150s:

The ex-FNW ones which had the seats and toilets replaced around 15 years ago, along with a new luggage/bike rack. They have had new seat covers and an internal repaint under Northern.

The ex-ATN ones and some of the ex-LM which have the original interior but have been refreshed.

Some of the ex-LM ones which have new seat covers and an external repaint but haven't been fully refreshed internally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The inset unit looks rather 323-ish to me.

They use that image on all their marketing. They did some DM last year on Duo fares which featured that train image whichever line they were promoting.

 

[Flying Claret]

Northern really have 3 categories of 150s:

The ex-FNW ones which had the seats and toilets replaced around 15 years ago, along with a new luggage/bike rack. They have had new seat covers and an internal repaint under Northern.

The ex-ATN ones and some of the ex-LM which have the original interior but have been refreshed.

Some of the ex-LM ones which have new seat covers and an external repaint but haven't been fully refreshed internally.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This was 150150. Easy to remember. New seat covers and tables by the look of it. Much better than the doubled-up pacer I had to endure this morning.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Journey planner is showing a bus from Clitheroe-blackburn on the out journey. However the return from manc vic, you change at accy for the replacement bus to clitheroe. Seems far more sensible to change at accy.

Early last year, I travelled on a service 14 (I think it was run by Holmeswood Coaches) that ran from the Royal Blackburn Hospital - Accrington (where I joined it) - Clitheroe. Does this still run from Accrington (the bus stops outside the indoor market) to Clitheroe on a regular basis.?

 

[Flying Claret]

Early last year, I travelled on a service 14 (I think it was run by Holmeswood Coaches) that ran from the Royal Blackburn Hospital - Accrington (where I joined it) - Clitheroe. Does this still run from Accrington (the bus stops outside the indoor market) to Clitheroe on a regular basis.?

Paul -yes this service runs hourly throughout the day. Its my only local service where i live up the hill in green haworth.

 

[northwichcat]

This was 150150. Easy to remember. New seat covers and tables by the look of it. Much better than the doubled-up pacer I had to endure this morning.

That's an ex-FNW unit which would have had a full refurbishment but I think you may have imagined the tables, the seat design allows flip down tables to be fitted to the rear but the tables have never been fitted.

 

[Darren R]

A bridge strike at Darwen has resulted in the trains via Todmorden being unusually busy at the moment!