I travelled this morning on the 1043 from Southall to Paddington, a three-car 165 with 1st class which is advertised in the timetable booklet as not conveying 1st class. I used Oyster Pay-As-You-Go, and sat in the 1st class section. There was only one other passenger, and a RPI entered soon after departure from STL, and asked to see my 1st class ticket.
I replied that I had an Oyster card, and that I understood that the 1st class accommodation was declassified. He said that it was not, and pointed to the First Class sign on the doors. I pointed out that irrespective of any signs, the timetable indicated that there was no 1st class accommodation advertised on this train, and handed him the timetable booklet. He said that this was irrelevant, and the accommodation was still 1st class.
He then pointed out that the next section beyond the doors was declassified first. I replied that that accommodation had been once been first class, but was converted to standard class some time ago. He said that it was declassified, and that the seats were the same as those in first class. Yes, I said, they are two plus two, rather than three plus two, but they were physically not the same as the 1st class two plus two seats. He then commented that I was likely to keep this conversation going for the whole journey.
So I asked him what he wanted me to do, saying I would comply with his wishes. Would he like to give me a penalty fare? He declined, and went into the rear cab, saying that the other passenger had paid for a 1st class ticket.