Western Rail Access to Heathrow delayed

[ess]

Western Rail Access to Heathrow

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35458229

A delay of almost two years in building a new £500m Heathrow rail link has been criticised by businesses.
The proposed link would include a 3.1 mile (5km) tunnel between the Great Western main line at Slough in Berkshire and the airport's Terminal 5.
But Network Rail said a planning application, due to be submitted in the next few weeks, had been delayed until late 2017.
Businesses said the link was needed to attract more people to Reading.
Nick Halstead, who owns technology business Datasift in Green Park, said the "disappointing" delay was making it harder to attract staff.
He said: "The delay is not a good sign for this project and other projects where Reading should be seen as important."

 

[deltic]

The story I heard was that it was unlikely to go ahead unless Heathrow got its third runway

 

[Lurpi]

Not much point in building a rail link to Heathrow when its future is still unresolved. If Gatwick displaces Heathrow as hub airport (unlikely, but as of now still on the table), the strategic case for building the link is surely weakened.

Compare with the HS2 Heathrow link, which is also on the back burner pending the govt's final decision about expanding airport capacity in the south-east.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

This is the most important "missing link" on the entire rail network.

It is impossible to get from the northwest or northeast to Heathrow Airport by train without multiple changes. There used to be the A1 bus from Kings Cross & Euston, but Ken took it off years ago. So getting there is not much fun if you have heavy luggage. And the odds are stacked heavily against there being a convenient & affordable "off-peak" service.

Hence the ludicrous number of flights from Manchester to LHR. However these are so unreliable that I have had to go back to good old National Express to get to & from LHR for my last two holidays.

Heathrow should be a major destination on the CrossCountry network, served by trains with adequate luggage space.

 

[causton]

Heathrow should be a major destination on the CrossCountry network, served by trains with adequate luggage space.

I guess for now you could go to Reading and then get RailAir from there.

 

[Bantamzen]

This is the most important "missing link" on the entire rail network.

It is impossible to get from the northwest or northeast to Heathrow Airport by train without multiple changes. There used to be the A1 bus from Kings Cross & Euston, but Ken took it off years ago. So getting there is not much fun if you have heavy luggage. And the odds are stacked heavily against there being a convenient & affordable "off-peak" service.

Hence the ludicrous number of flights from Manchester to LHR. However these are so unreliable that I have had to go back to good old National Express to get to & from LHR for my last two holidays.

Heathrow should be a major destination on the CrossCountry network, served by trains with adequate luggage space.

It is a major put off in my opinion. We fly from LHR last September and had originally planned to get a train down the day before (our flight was a 9:45 to LAX), stay in central London so that we could go out the night before and head to LHR on a early service. But looking at the cost of getting from London to LHR as well as the inconvenience with two large (23kg) bags, we decided to fly down from LBA & stay at the Thistle close to T5. We did venture into central London, but chose the Piccadilly Line to Leicester Sq, which made us even more glad that we didn't opt to stay in London!

With really only the tube, or the Heathrow Connect as reasonable(ish) connections (Heathrow Express is just too expensive to justify IMO) but with all the hassle of either getting to Paddington, or using the tube (which you'd need to for a shorter spell on the HC anyway), it's no wonder that companies like BA can offer regular flights down for connections (and actually cheaper than the train in the first instance). There's a big market, and the lack of any decent rail link from anywhere other than the west of the the capital is very off-putting. And I don't think that Crossrail will help a lot, as this will likely be as difficult to navigate with large suitcases as much of the Underground is.

 

[Bald Rick]

It is impossible to get from the northwest or northeast to Heathrow Airport by train without multiple changes.

From the NE, it's one (step free) change at KX onto the Piccadilly line. Simples.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hence the ludicrous number of flights from Manchester to LHR.

Ludicrous in what way? They used to be nearly over 40 flights a day from London to Manchester each way (pre Virgin upgrade). Now there are 8 or 9.

 

[edwin_m]

It is impossible to get from the northwest or northeast to Heathrow Airport by train without multiple changes.

Assuming Phase Two happens as planned, even with no Heathrow link, HS2 cuts that down to one easy change at Old Oak and a short ride on Crossrail. The Western Rail Link would however remain important for, erm, links to the west.

 

[RepTCTC]

Businesses said the link was needed to attract more people to Reading.

Nick Halstead, who owns technology business Datasift in Green Park, said the "disappointing" delay was making it harder to attract staff.

Off at something of a tangent here, but I really do wish journalists would avoiding publishing guff like this in the absence of any evidence. Surely the problem of attracting staff to work in Reading has got far more to do with the ungodly high cost of housing in the area, and much less to do with what, on the face of it at least, appears to the difficulty of commuting to the place by air.

 

[coppercapped]

Off at something of a tangent here, but I really do wish journalists would avoiding publishing guff like this in the absence of any evidence. Surely the problem of attracting staff to work in Reading has got far more to do with the ungodly high cost of housing in the area, and much less to do with what, on the face of it at least, appears to the difficulty of commuting to the place by air.

Agreed! The Green Park office development is right beside J11 on the M4. There is a railway station planned near there on the Reading-Basingstoke line but it will still be some way from the bulk of the office sites.
Anyone wanting to get to Green Park from Heathrow as easily as possible would drive. It would certainly be quicker, even in the rush hour, than getting to Reading station and then using a bus or taxi.

 

[JamesRowden]

Agreed! The Green Park office development is right beside J11 on the M4. There is a railway station planned near there on the Reading-Basingstoke line but it will still be some way from the bulk of the office sites.
Anyone wanting to get to Green Park from Heathrow as easily as possible would drive. It would certainly be quicker, even in the rush hour, than getting to Reading station and then using a bus or taxi.

If the Western Rail Access is built, there will probably be a 2tph through service between Green Park and Heathrow.

 

[Deepgreen]

If the Western Rail Access is built, there will probably be a 2tph through service between Green Park and Heathrow.

If the new station is called Green Park, I can see confusion ahead for unfamiliar travellers from Heathrow!

 

[JamesRowden]

If the new station is called Green Park, I can see confusion ahead for unfamiliar travellers from Heathrow!

Those that don't know where Basingstoke or Southampton are.

 

[NickBucks]

It is a major put off in my opinion. We fly from LHR last September and had originally planned to get a train down the day before (our flight was a 9:45 to LAX), stay in central London so that we could go out the night before and head to LHR on a early service. But looking at the cost of getting from London to LHR as well as the inconvenience with two large (23kg) bags, we decided to fly down from LBA & stay at the Thistle close to T5. We did venture into central London, but chose the Piccadilly Line to Leicester Sq, which made us even more glad that we didn't opt to stay in London!

With really only the tube, or the Heathrow Connect as reasonable(ish) connections (Heathrow Express is just too expensive to justify IMO) but with all the hassle of either getting to Paddington, or using the tube (which you'd need to for a shorter spell on the HC anyway), it's no wonder that companies like BA can offer regular flights down for connections (and actually cheaper than the train in the first instance). There's a big market, and the lack of any decent rail link from anywhere other than the west of the the capital is very off-putting. And I don't think that Crossrail will help a lot, as this will likely be as difficult to navigate with large suitcases as much of the Underground is.

May be worth checking out the cheaper deals on HEX provided you can buy your tickets in advance. Even they have realised that this cash cow will not last forever i.e when Crossrail comes along.

 

[455driver]

Off at something of a tangent here, but I really do wish journalists would avoiding publishing guff like this in the absence of any evidence. Surely the problem of attracting staff to work in Reading has got far more to do with the ungodly high cost of housing in the area, and much less to do with what, on the face of it at least, appears to the difficulty of commuting to the place by air.

Maybe he should pay better wages!

 

[coppercapped]

If the new station is called Green Park, I can see confusion ahead for unfamiliar travellers from Heathrow!

The Green Park estate is partially on the land of the, now mostly built over, Smallmead Farm. Maybe the station should be called after the now lost farm to avoid confusion...

Postscript: It is by no means certain that trains serving Heathrow via the Western Rail Access will run down to Basingstoke via Reading. Other destinations with a more direct routing are equally, or even more, likely such as Oxford and Swindon. We'll see.

 

[deltic]

Assuming Phase Two happens as planned, even with no Heathrow link, HS2 cuts that down to one easy change at Old Oak and a short ride on Crossrail. The Western Rail Link would however remain important for, erm, links to the west.

However, given there will be an interchange at Old Oak Common with Great Western Main Line services and the frequency of services on Crossrail will be far higher than on the Western Rail Link it may be quicker to change at Old Oak Common than Reading for passengers from Bristol etc which probably further undermines the case for the Western Rail Link

 

[coppercapped]

However, given there will be an interchange at Old Oak Common with Great Western Main Line services and the frequency of services on Crossrail will be far higher than on the Western Rail Link it may be quicker to change at Old Oak Common than Reading for passengers from Bristol etc which probably further undermines the case for the Western Rail Link

I can understand the reason for stopping the Crossrail trains and the rump of the outer suburban services at Old Oak Common, but I can't see the point of stopping the Main Line services. It will add a good five minutes to journey times and connection can anyway be made at Paddington to and from Crossrail - Old Oak won't be any more convenient as the connection will not be cross-platform.

Nobody is going to start their journey on an 'InterCity' train at Paddington and change five minutes later into an HS2 train. They will either use Crossrail or start from Euston. In the reverse direction who in his or her right mind will get off an HS2 train at Old Oak and use an 'InterCity' train to reach Paddington where they will probably have to change again?

Crossrail's web site gives a 24 min journey time from Reading to Langley and one can guess about another 5 min from there to Terminal 5 - say a total journey time of 30 mins. A fast train from Reading to Old Oak will be about 20 mins (IEP times to Paddington are claimed to be 25 minutes - slower than HSTs in the early days!). Crossrail gives a time of 15 mins from Ealing Broadway to Terminals 1,2 and 3. Allowing 3 minutes from Old Oak to Ealing and another 5 minutes from Terms. 1-3 to Terminal 5 and 5 minutes for changing at Old Oak the journey time comes out at 28 minutes.

The time saving will be marginal, if there is in reality any saving at all. It will certainly be more expensive as the 'Langley Junction' to Old Oak stretch will have to be paid for twice.

I wonder if, when reality kicks in, GW Main Line trains really will call at Old Oak.

 

[mr_jrt]

Of course they will. Just it will be set down only towards Paddington and pick up only away from it - it will save passengers from cluttering up Paddington needlessly.

 

[BananaRepublic]

...Crossrail's web site gives a 24 min journey time from Reading to Langley and one can guess about another 5 min from there to Terminal 5 - say a total journey time of 30 mins.....

Crossrail will be an all stations service from Reading to Langley, whereas the proposed western rail link service will only stop at Slough and possibly Maidenhead.
The estimated journey time set out in the official project, is given as approx. 26 mins.

...A fast train from Reading to Old Oak will be about 20 mins (IEP times to Paddington are claimed to be 25 minutes - slower than HSTs in the early days!).
Crossrail gives a time of 15 mins from Ealing Broadway to Terminals 1,2 and 3.
Allowing 3 minutes from Old Oak to Ealing and another 5 minutes from Terms. 1-3 to Terminal 5 and 5 minutes for changing at Old Oak the journey time comes out at 28 minutes.
....

I think your maths went wrong there?
The total of the times you've quoted is 48 mins.
Almost double the time of a direct Reading - T5 service.


.

 

[deltic]

I can understand the reason for stopping the Crossrail trains and the rump of the outer suburban services at Old Oak Common, but I can't see the point of stopping the Main Line services. It will add a good five minutes to journey times and connection can anyway be made at Paddington to and from Crossrail - Old Oak won't be any more convenient as the connection will not be cross-platform.

Nobody is going to start their journey on an 'InterCity' train at Paddington and change five minutes later into an HS2 train. They will either use Crossrail or start from Euston. In the reverse direction who in his or her right mind will get off an HS2 train at Old Oak and use an 'InterCity' train to reach Paddington where they will probably have to change again?

Crossrail's web site gives a 24 min journey time from Reading to Langley and one can guess about another 5 min from there to Terminal 5 - say a total journey time of 30 mins. A fast train from Reading to Old Oak will be about 20 mins (IEP times to Paddington are claimed to be 25 minutes - slower than HSTs in the early days!). Crossrail gives a time of 15 mins from Ealing Broadway to Terminals 1,2 and 3. Allowing 3 minutes from Old Oak to Ealing and another 5 minutes from Terms. 1-3 to Terminal 5 and 5 minutes for changing at Old Oak the journey time comes out at 28 minutes.

The time saving will be marginal, if there is in reality any saving at all. It will certainly be more expensive as the 'Langley Junction' to Old Oak stretch will have to be paid for twice.

I wonder if, when reality kicks in, GW Main Line trains really will call at Old Oak.

GW trains will call at OOC to connect with HS2. Your calculations are based on someone starting from Reading travelling to T5. If however you are travelling from say Bristol the issue would then become the frequency of services from Reading to Heathrow direct and which terminal you were travelling to at Heathrow as to whether it would be better to travel via Reading or OOC. Undoubtedly Reading would often be quicker but is it worth the expense of the western connection given an improved alternative will become available.

 

[Mikey C]

Off at something of a tangent here, but I really do wish journalists would avoiding publishing guff like this in the absence of any evidence. Surely the problem of attracting staff to work in Reading has got far more to do with the ungodly high cost of housing in the area, and much less to do with what, on the face of it at least, appears to the difficulty of commuting to the place by air.

That's what happens when you interview David Brent

 

[edwin_m]

I can understand the reason for stopping the Crossrail trains and the rump of the outer suburban services at Old Oak Common, but I can't see the point of stopping the Main Line services. It will add a good five minutes to journey times and connection can anyway be made at Paddington to and from Crossrail - Old Oak won't be any more convenient as the connection will not be cross-platform.

Stopping GWML trains at OOC provides opportunities for connections with HS2, which would make some journeys between points west and points north quicker than going on the classic network via Birmingham.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Not much point in building a rail link to Heathrow when its future is still unresolved. If Gatwick displaces Heathrow as hub airport (unlikely, but as of now still on the table), the strategic case for building the link is surely weakened......

The western rail link business case was not reliant on another runway being built at Heathrow. Bear in mind that this project was given the formal go ahead more than 3 years ago and has been underway for almost a year already, having passed through the two planning consultation phases last year (2015).
The next step, the formal planning application was due to be submitted in a few weeks time, with actual construction due to commence next spring.

The BBC report suggests that the review of NR expenditure and re-phasing of its investment commitments is to blame for this project being delayed by something between 18 to 22 months.
It's just another in the long list of NR projects that is being delayed and nothing to do with Heathrow development.

.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If the new station is called Green Park, I can see confusion ahead for unfamiliar travellers from Heathrow!

Confusion already ... I spent a few very puzzled moments in this thread trying to figure out why a business located by Green Park (London) would have any interest in Reading-Heathrow connectivity before I read on a few posts and realized what the 'Green Park' meant

 

[JamesRowden]

GW trains will call at OOC to connect with HS2. Your calculations are based on someone starting from Reading travelling to T5. If however you are travelling from say Bristol the issue would then become the frequency of services from Reading to Heathrow direct and which terminal you were travelling to at Heathrow as to whether it would be better to travel via Reading or OOC. Undoubtedly Reading would often be quicker but is it worth the expense of the western connection given an improved alternative will become available.

There should be a semi-fast train every 15 minutes between Reading and Heathrow. I expect that Bristol to Heathrow via Old Oak Common would not be a permitted route, thus freeing up capacity between Reading and Paddington.

 

[rebmcr]

Crossrail will be an all stations service from Reading to Langley

No it won't.

 

[BananaRepublic]

No it won't.

OK I should have said "between" Reading and Langley.
Also I should have been more specific. It's all stations during the peak period, with Taplow and Burnham being missed out on 2 out of the 4tph, off-peak.

 

[zoneking]

All of this is a moot point until Heathrow Airport is brought into the London Zonal system. I have an outboundary zones 1-6 travelcard costing £4220. I'm damned if I will pay extra to travel to Heathrow Airport when I have already have paid for the ticket.

 

[Greenback]

I thought Heathrow was in zone 6? Or have I misunderstood what you mean?