Southeastern Refurbished Class 375

[fusionblue]

I tweeted SET about it and "no plans" was their response. The networkers really need a refresh (and keeping on top of!).. they are showing their age again.

I've seen 376s with bins that have thrown themselves open (scattering litter everywhere), doors between coaches locked open, other doors that open and close themselves repeatedly and even litter underneath the (badly designed) heating grills at feet level. One train had shattered glass on an entire pane and was simply stickered over with a safety film.

 

[Deepgreen]

its just too "showy" for me... especially being around the windows...

...it basically says to the outside world.... "here are the first class people"....... and "here are the disabled people".....

its almost like a gallery!!

An odd point of view - to me it says; this is where you need to be if you want first class, or are disabled/with a bike/buggy, etc. While I wouldn't have chosen the yellow and maroon to surround the windows, it's good to see a very clear indication of specific parts of the train.

 

[causton]

One train had shattered glass on an entire pane and was simply stickered over with a safety film.

Problem being? Next time I will tell SE to cancel the train instead! I have seen it on a few operator's trains. Obviously it is a last resort.

 

[physics34]

I tweeted SET about it and "no plans" was their response. The networkers really need a refresh (and keeping on top of!).. they are showing their age again.

I've seen 376s with bins that have thrown themselves open (scattering litter everywhere), doors between coaches locked open, other doors that open and close themselves repeatedly and even litter underneath the (badly designed) heating grills at feet level. One train had shattered glass on an entire pane and was simply stickered over with a safety film.

the train can stay in service if just the outer glazing is shattered. Agree it doesnt look good, but......

 

[ScotGG]

SET actually said no plans for networkers? Just a few days back they were again saying all trains were being refurbed!

Those 376 issues I havn't seen much of but then I take less of them. Those issue are very prevalent on networkers. I just hope TfL takeover in 2018 - far more liklihood of some action than the DfT's hopeless short extensions and weak franchises which never specify a proper refurb. It was needed 10 years ago when the trains were getting to 15 years old. At this rate it'll be 30 years and then what's the odds the DfT will say their too old to do anything so let them roll around for another 10 years looking like rubbish.

 

[JaJaWa]

375306 was at the stops at Victoria yesterday, with a Networker rake at the country end. See photo.

View attachment 22898

Wonder if passengers will think these are new trains!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Wonder if passengers will think these are new trains!

If the interiors were done to the same standard as SWTs had their 456s done, they might think they're new trains

 

[jon0844]

its just too "showy" for me... especially being around the windows...

...it basically says to the outside world.... "here are the first class people"....... and "here are the disabled people".....

its almost like a gallery!!

At least one of the 365s will need that treatment then, for when the Queen takes her annual trip...

 

[47802]

A livery is nice for us to look at and compare with others, take pictures of etc, but most passengers just want a train with clear markings on the outside that shows where to board - such as where first class is, where your actual coach is (when you have booked seats), the doors that are for wheelchairs etc, where the doors actually are and so on.

Ideally a livery will be designed with all of these things taken into consideration from the outset.

It's public transport and that means anyone can use it, not just regular passengers and enthusiasts.

Passengers also like something that looks reasonably appealing to get onto, hence modern trains and buses within limitations tends to look more sleek and modern compared to old trains. Generally Electrostars are not bad looking trains but OMG that colour scheme is totally horrendous. I'm sorry but who ever came up with that needs a slap. I expect the Electrostar designer is banging their head against a brick wall right now

 

[fusionblue]

Problem being? Next time I will tell SE to cancel the train instead! I have seen it on a few operator's trains. Obviously it is a last resort.

People deliberately avoided sitting by that window, presumably because they thought it might shatter - that seems like a sensible action given you don't actually know or not if its a risk. Easily remedied with a sticker (placed underneath the safety film) to say that this window will be replaced and this film helps to keep the glass in one piece.

Given i've seen a entire 4 coach 319 taken out of service because of "obscene language written inside the train" (but still hauled on in 8 car form, keeping rear 4 cars locked) then a nearly smashed window might have seen the same result.

 

[GraemeK]

So what is the reduction in first class seats going to be once all converted? Current config is 24 seats per 4 car unit - anyone have exact figures on the refurbed units?

 

[Philip C]

So what is the reduction in first class seats going to be once all converted? Current config is 24 seats per 4 car unit - anyone have exact figures on the refurbed units?

Currently 8 at each end of four-car unit plus another 4 at each end with limited leg-room = 24 per four-car unit.

Based on observation on one journey: Refurbished units have 16 seats per 4 car unit at centre of unit. These comprise 3 bays of 4 seats around a full-sized table and 2 pairs of 2 seats arranged 'airline-style' where a fourth bay of 4 could have been placed. All 16 seats have decent leg-room.

My opinion is that, as a first-class ticket holder who is close to six-feet tall, there is no reduction in seating that I would choose to use. So long as guards continue to manage 'invaders' then, whilst the provision isn't exactly super (no doors, rather standard seats etc.) it is marginally better than pre-refurbishment (smoother ride and proper tables without those diagonal supports that bruise knees).

I'm holding my breath that no lesser standards will be applied to upgrades to other sub-classes.

 

[yorksrob]

Passengers also like something that looks reasonably appealing to get onto, hence modern trains and buses within limitations tends to look more sleek and modern compared to old trains. Generally Electrostars are not bad looking trains but OMG that colour scheme is totally horrendous. I'm sorry but who ever came up with that needs a slap. I expect the Electrostar designer is banging their head against a brick wall right now

Apart from the yellow box around the first class window (which is far too OTT) the two tone blue is actually very attractive. Far better than the hideous yellow and grey that Connex assaulted our eyes with.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Apart from the yellow box around the first class window (which is far too OTT) the two tone blue is actually very attractive. Far better than the hideous yellow and grey dirt and muck that Connex assaulted our eyes with.

Fixed that for you..

 

[GraemeK]

Currently 8 at each end of four-car unit plus another 4 at each end with limited leg-room = 24 per four-car unit.

Based on observation on one journey: Refurbished units have 16 seats per 4 car unit at centre of unit. These comprise 3 bays of 4 seats around a full-sized table and 2 pairs of 2 seats arranged 'airline-style' where a fourth bay of 4 could have been placed. All 16 seats have decent leg-room

So we'll be losing equivalent of 4 seats in each of the current compartments. On my commute (Tonbridge) suggests not buy first class if one lived in Sevenoaks.

 

[MrB]

Why don't Southeastern add a door to segregate first class in a similar way to some of the Class 377 subclasses with Southern?

 

[Philip C]

Why don't Southeastern add a door to segregate first class in a similar way to some of the Class 377 subclasses with Southern?

Or put a corridor down the side, although that would lead to the loss of a further 25% of first class seating.

 

[physics34]

Why don't Southeastern add a door to segregate first class in a similar way to some of the Class 377 subclasses with Southern?

£££££££s

 

[urpert]

Currently on 375605 which has been done. Very nice though IMO they were starting with one of the best modern EMU interiors (perhaps the only thing Connex got right)!

They seem to have been a bit enthusiastic with the blue spray paint as the door button is also half covered in it...

 

[bgstrowger]

Personally, I think the refreshed interior is a bit of a mess. Too many competing shades of blue and the arctic camouflage table covers on the Class 375/6s is weird. The retention of the existing moquette means that it now clashes badly with the new carpet.

Be interested to see what they do with the Class 375/9s, though I won't hold my breath over the replacement of the backache inducing seats.

 

[387star]

Personally, I think the refreshed interior is a bit of a mess. Too many competing shades of blue and the arctic camouflage table covers on the Class 375/6s is weird. The retention of the existing moquette means that it now clashes badly with the new carpet.

Be interested to see what they do with the Class 375/9s, though I won't hold my breath over the replacement of the backache inducing seats.

I've always wondered why southeastern has a low capacity electrostar fleet other than the 375/9s whereas aside from a few 377/1s (which ironically will go to southeastern ) southern has only the inner and outer cars low density or on some /1s only the ends of each coach

 

[bgstrowger]

I've always wondered why southeastern has a low capacity electrostar fleet other than the 375/9s whereas aside from a few 377/1s (which ironically will go to southeastern ) southern has only the inner and outer cars low density or on some /1s only the ends of each coach

What's the betting that those outer cars are the first to fill up though

Judging by recent orders, the 3+2 layout is on its way out.

 

[387star]

Regarding electrostars their internal finish is not as good as desiros in my opinion

This is because the internal panelling has a lot of different sections bolted together whereas the desiros have a clean white wall all the way down from the windows

On electrostars they have noticable gaps between the joints, grills which join on to side panelling which is divided up then more heater grills underneath which also have dividers covered up by some kind of filler

Sorry no expert!

The electrostars look like they are not quite complete somehow internally

They are also harder to walk through on the 3+2 sections than 450s why is this?

 

[swt_passenger]

They are also harder to walk through on the 3+2 sections than 450s why is this?

Either its a narrower compartment overall than a 450, or they use slightly wider 2+3 seats than on a 450. What else could it possibly be?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's the betting that those outer cars are the first to fill up though

Judging by recent orders, the 3+2 layout is on its way out.

Slightly contradicted by NR's suggestion in the Wessex Route Study that the franchisee should operate more 12 car 450s with 2+3 seating to increase overall line capacity.

Haven't recent orders nearly all been about metro routes, (or Thameslink), they don't necessarily create a precedent for every existing 'outer-suburban' route...

 

[urpert]

Either its a narrower compartment overall than a 450, or they use slightly wider 2+3 seats than on a 450. What else could it possibly be?

Electrostars have sloping sides whereas Desiros are straight up to the roof (meaning the seats can be mounted closer to the wall)?

 

[physics34]

Personally, I think the refreshed interior is a bit of a mess. Too many competing shades of blue and the arctic camouflage table covers on the Class 375/6s is weird. The retention of the existing moquette means that it now clashes badly with the new carpet.

Be interested to see what they do with the Class 375/9s, though I won't hold my breath over the replacement of the backache inducing seats.

yep, dont get the table cover. Also no doors to segregate the first class area

 

[Skimble19]

Regarding electrostars their internal finish is not as good as desiros in my opinion

This is because the internal panelling has a lot of different sections bolted together whereas the desiros have a clean white wall all the way down from the windows

On electrostars they have noticable gaps between the joints, grills which join on to side panelling which is divided up then more heater grills underneath which also have dividers covered up by some kind of filler

Sorry no expert!

The electrostars look like they are not quite complete somehow internally

Personally I completely disagree with you for all the reasons you've mentioned. To me the Desiros look barren and very clinical with their plain white walls whilst the Electrostars (and countless stock before them such as Networkers) look far "nicer" inside, as long as they're looked after.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I completely disagree with you for all the reasons you've mentioned. To me the Desiros look barren and very clinical with their plain white walls whilst the Electrostars (and countless stock before them such as Networkers) look far "nicer" inside, as long as they're looked after.

I would agree - though I think the Desiro is more tolerant to not being looked after, being more basic.

It's noticeable that the Brighton main line Electrostars are pleasant places to be, but the dross that gets sent up to MK (when it's 8-car) is filthy, vandalised and generally unpleasant.

 

[Panos Giann]

375607 was on it's way to Ramsgate depot yesterday. Spotted it at Wye, hauled by a 37. It should be back in action soon.

 

[MrB]

What's the latest on the progress of the refurbishment?