WCRC banned from running trains on the mainline from 18th Feb 2016 now rescinded

[Spamcan81]

With regard to CDL or bolts manned by stewards, how difficult (leaving costs aside for a moment) would it be to fit the charter rakes of mk1s with a CDL system similar to that found on HSTs? Mk1s of course would need 6 per carriage and if on a steam-hauled charter I assume some sort of power source would be required.

Many of the centre doors are now locked permanently out of use on the charter rakes so mostly it would be just four per carriage.

 

[ilkestonian]

Another stop short and release at Bath Spa with a 1Z. Train then moved with all doors open and passengers boarding and alighting to the correct point.

Moved with all doors open?

Really?

 

[LAX54]

Moved with all doors open?

Really?

Does not say all the doors, but all the doors opened by the on train staff.

 

[221129]

Does not say all the doors, but all the doors opened by the on train staff.

Yes, it does.

 

[westcoaster]

If as stated the driver drives for GWR maybe he stopped at the wrong stop marker ( say a unit marker) instead of an S board, realises his mistake and tries to draw forward to the correct marker. But in the mean time a steward/s opens a door/s, the driver applies power and moves forward without knowing the doors were open.
Same could apply to the guard ( driver and guard may have conversed about drawing forward) we don't know, but I'm sure it's all in hand.

 

[221129]

If as stated the driver drives for GWR maybe he stopped at the wrong stop marker ( say a unit marker) instead of an S board, realises his mistake and tries to draw forward to the correct marker. But in the mean time a steward/s opens a door/s, the driver applies power and moves forward without knowing the doors were open.
Same could apply to the guard ( driver and guard may have conversed about drawing forward) we don't know, but I'm sure it's all in hand.

Where has it been mentioned that the driver drives for GWR?

 

[ilkestonian]

Does not say all the doors, but all the doors opened by the on train staff.

You read it differently to me then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If as stated the driver drives for GWR maybe he stopped at the wrong stop marker ( say a unit marker) instead of an S board, realises his mistake and tries to draw forward to the correct marker. But in the mean time a steward/s opens a door/s, the driver applies power and moves forward without knowing the doors were open.

If the incident happened as you suggest, and I'm neither suggesting it did or it didn't, then such action doesn't reflect well on the driver, does it?

 

[SPADTrap]

Moved with all doors open?

Really?

So the incident report said when I first saw it? Given the stock being operated I guess it rather meant those doors that were opened but I didn't write it so you'll have to mull that one over yourself :razz:

 

[BestWestern]

I'm not sure a CDL system has been designed that would fit a Mk 1 door. As far as I am aware, the centre doors on the Mk 1 and Mk 2 charter sets have all been locked out of use, so there would be a maximum of 4 per coach.

The Lymington Slammers had electromagnetic plates retrofitted to the door bottoms, I believe.

 

[headshot119]

If that is the case, it's a cause for concern, as presumably that means if the train stops in the wrong place passengers are left to their own devices as to what to do. I thought the stewards had to ensure the train was in its correct position before releasing the bolts.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm not sure a CDL system has been designed that would fit a Mk 1 door. As far as I am aware, the centre doors on the Mk 1 and Mk 2 charter sets have all been locked out of use, so there would be a maximum of 4 per coach.

A CDL system has been designed to fit a MK1 door, 121032 was fitted with such a system. Large electromagnetic plates along the bottom of each door.

 

[Argosy]

All stock should be banned from running on railways/tramways providing a licensed public transport service if more than 50 years old, due to inherent unreliability. Exemptions could be made for specific lines (e.g. Grosmont-Whitby, the Blackpool tramway) after careful evaluation of the risks. However, such museum pieces should not be making long-distance journeys on main railway lines.

Goodbye all steam locos ...... and of course the Island Line.

 

[LAX54]

You read it differently to me then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If the incident happened as you suggest, and I'm neither suggesting it did or it didn't, then such action doesn't reflect well on the driver, does it?

The train then started moving forwards along the platform with all the doors that had been opened, still open. The train continued down the platform to
the designated stopping point.

 

[ScouserGirl]

If as stated the driver drives for GWR maybe he stopped at the wrong stop marker ( say a unit marker) instead of an S board, realises his mistake and tries to draw forward to the correct marker. But in the mean time a steward/s opens a door/s, the driver applies power and moves forward without knowing the doors were open.
Same could apply to the guard ( driver and guard may have conversed about drawing forward) we don't know, but I'm sure it's all in hand.

Where does it say that the driver drives for GWR?
If this the case I think someone may be out of a job...

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[ScouserGirl]

It was posted on another forum I believe.

oh was it?
that driver may be in deep trouble then :-/

 

[QueensCurve]

Where does it say that the driver drives for GWR?
If this the case I think someone may be out of a job...

I may be out of step with the prevailing culture of the rail industry, but I would hope someone would not be dismissed for making one mistake. After all, the person who makes that mistake is likely to learn from it and contribute to the corporate memory of the industry/TOC.

It should become a matter for Learning from Experience with briefs given to other staff, suitable learning points include:-

• Ensure that you do not stop prematurely
• Stop at the correct stop board for your train length
• do not open or release any door until you are sure your train is wholly in the platform
• Announce to passengers they must not alight until the door is safely opened in a platform

And of course there should be appropriate confidential reporting routes for such matters to be reported and briefed.

 

[ScouserGirl]

I may be out of step with the prevailing culture of the rail industry, but I would hope someone would not be dismissed for making one mistake. After all, the person who makes that mistake is likely to learn from it and contribute to the corporate memory of the industry/TOC.

It should become a matter for Learning from Experience with briefs given to other staff, suitable learning points include:-

• Ensure that you do not stop prematurely
• Stop at the correct stop board for your train length
• do not open or release any door until you are sure your train is wholly in the platform
• Announce to passengers they must not alight until the door is safely opened in a platform

And of course there should be appropriate confidential reporting routes for such matters to be reported and briefed.

depends on the incident, also no one know's what's on his or hers licence and if they have had any incidents before... but if you were on a train that had stopped you would open the door thinking the train is safe to get off...

 

[edwin_m]

If (and it's still an if) the driver was in violation of the rules on mandatory rest periods the consequences for that driver could be serious even if not to blame for the incident itself. It would also cast further doubt on WCRC because they have to take reasonable measures to ensure their staff follow those rules.

 

[QueensCurve]

depends on the incident, also no one know's what's on his or hers licence and if they have had any incidents before... but if you were on a train that had stopped you would open the door thinking the train is safe to get off...

Granted.

My point really is that there should be a "system to blame" culture rather than a "person to blame" culture.

On average, a professional pilot makes 3 mistakes per flight. The system has to prevent accidents and injuries despite the failures and you have to try to develop procedures and learning so as to prevent errors in so far as possible.

 

[ScouserGirl]

If (and it's still an if) the driver was in violation of the rules on mandatory rest periods the consequences for that driver could be serious even if not to blame for the incident itself. It would also cast further doubt on WCRC because they have to take reasonable measures to ensure their staff follow those rules.

Exactly he or she shouldn't be working on a rest days as this is when mistakes happen...

 

[edwin_m]

Granted.

My point really is that there should be a "system to blame" culture rather than a "person to blame" culture.

On average, a professional pilot makes 3 mistakes per flight. The system has to prevent accidents and injuries despite the failures and you have to try to develop procedures and learning so as to prevent errors in so far as possible.

Generally so, although there is always the possibility of a company putting all necessary procedures in place, ensuring they are workable and briefing staff properly - only for a particular individual simply to ignore them deliberately.

All hypothetical by the way, not intended to infer anything about this incident.

 

[6Gman]

Anybody know the status of these "Stewards" on the train?

Are they a regular group of people with contracts, training, possibly a railway background and fully employed and paid?

Or, mates of the tour promoter doing it for a free ticket?

Or, agency staff on minimum wage and - perhaps - little experience or training?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Exactly he or she shouldn't be working on a rest days as this is when mistakes happen...

Bit of a sweeping statement! Have you any evidence that rest day working is inherently more dangerous?

 

[najaB]

Bit of a sweeping statement! Have you any evidence that rest day working is inherently more dangerous?

While there is likely no evidence that a particular instance of rest day working will be any more or less dangerous than roster day working, there is a large body of evidence that fatigue is a major risk factor for any kind of occupation that requires a high degree of concentration.

There have been a lot of aircraft incidents and accidents which have pilot fatigue as at least a contributory factor.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

They are volunteers with no safety training!

 

[philthetube]

Making a mistake as a driver or railway employee is not often grounds for dismissal, even in serious incidents. Taking incorrect action after the mistake or attempting to cover it up often is.

 

[Dai Corner]

They are volunteers with no safety training!

It would be interesting to know what the rules surrounding this are and whether the stewards were briefed by the guard before commencing their duties.

Do the stewards have to ensure that every door is locked and communicate this to the guard before he gives the right away to the driver? Does the guard satisfy himself that the train is correctly platformed before telling the stewards they may unlock the doors?

 

[PHILIPE]

It is stated on the WNXX Forum that the Driver was a GWR Driver working his Rest Day and WHO IS CURRENTLY RESTRICTED FROM DRIVING. This is in an extract of the Network Rail Log.

 

[14xxDave]

It is stated on the WNXX Forum that the Driver was a GWR Driver working his Rest Day and WHO IS CURRENTLY RESTRICTED FROM DRIVING. This is in an extract of the Network Rail Log.

Hmm this could be an interesting one....watch this space!

 

[cjmillsnun]

It is stated on the WNXX Forum that the Driver was a GWR Driver working his Rest Day and WHO IS CURRENTLY RESTRICTED FROM DRIVING. This is in an extract of the Network Rail Log.

If that info is true, then it will be a manager's chat without tea and biscuits.

 

[14xxDave]

If that info is true, then it will be a manager's chat without tea and biscuits.

And an ORR chat too I would assume....oh and exactly who is his manager in this incidence?