Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[Carlisle]

RMT need to aim higher in order to negotiate down to a compromise - you never open with your lowest!
.

Yes maybe eventually that'll happen, but the way things are working out currently, it appears RMT would firstly much prefer to see ASLEF and station staff join the campaign of industrial action and then gauge GTRs response before they'd consider weather to meaningfully negotiate down or not ?

 

[Dave1987]

What a load of...

Christ. I do feel sorry for the conductors having to put up with this. Interesting it is very clearly a breach of the GTR franchise doing all this! But then again, we know they break it in other areas so doubt that will stop them...

I have spoken to a number of them and they agree the future does not look bright.

I completely agree. The RMT needs to get any agreements they may or may not make with this lot legally binding so if they go back on anything they can be taken to court.

 

[tony6499]

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...ncellations-between-brighton-and-southampton/

Southern having another public dig at their conductors. No wonder there is an unusually high level of sickness and people aren't volunteering for rest day work given the way they're being treated.

I guess it is due to anxiety and stress caused by a bullying management, you really can't make GTR management up

 

[Surreytraveller]

I feel this is going to be a long, drawn out battle, which is going to only end with all trains being DOO

Either DOO or cancelled!

 

[PakRail]

These are all cheap and dirty tactics from a company that cares not a bit about the customers or employees.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I guess it is due to anxiety and stress caused by a bullying management, you really can't make GTR management up

Exactly its plainly obvious that the additional sickness etc is caused by Southerns actions.

The management really are awful and I see little oint in the unions negotiating as it is clear the intention is DOO trains, and anyone who believes the 2nd role wont disappear shortly thereafter is in my opinion misguided.

 

[spangles]

RMT are taking legal action.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/southern-gtr-dispute-update030516/

SOUTHERN MANAGEMENT ACTING ILLEGALLY BY BREACHING THEIR FRANCHISE AGREEMENT
.
.
.

Breaching their Franchise Agreement

Part of Southern’s Franchise Agreement with the DfT states:-

Part 1 to Schedule 6.1 List of Committed Obligations

The Franchisee shall:
. (a) on or before 30 September 2015 establish and implement strategies to:
. (i) create healthy, positive working environments that optimise the attractiveness of roles and increase the wellbeing of Franchise Employees; and _
. (ii) minimise absenteeism and sickness leave of Franchise Employees;

Well obviously the working environment that Southern created is far from positive and they certainly isn’t increasing the wellbeing of their employees. To say they are breaching their Franchise is an understatement.

So you can see we have asked our Solicitors and Counsel to challenge these illegal practices that Southern are employing. I will keep you advised of developments on these very important issues.

I'm seriously beginning to question whether or not RMT are actually seeking legal counsel. Certainly the above statement cannot have been written or endorsed by a lawyer. Even an inexperienced lawyer would understand that a breach of a Franchise Agreement is just that, a contractual breach. It is not in itself a illegal act. And even if there were a breach, it would have to be DFT who would bring such a challenge to the courts since that contract expressly exists between them and GTR. The unions opinions and views in relation to a franchise breach are from a legal point of view irrelevant.

 

[Agent_c]

I'm seriously beginning to question whether or not RMT are actually seeking legal counsel. Certainly the above statement cannot have been written or endorsed by a lawyer. Even an inexperienced lawyer would understand that a breach of a Franchise Agreement is just that, a contractual breach. It is not in itself a illegal act. And even if there were a breach, it would have to be DFT who would bring such a challenge to the courts since that contract expressly exists between them and GTR. The unions opinions and views in relation to a franchise breach are from a legal point of view irrelevant.

Third parties have been able to enforce contracts since the Contracts (rights of third parties) Act 1999. It might be a stretch, but the contract arguably "purports to confer a benefit" on the staff. If the court could be persuaded of that, they would have the right to demand specific performance.

I think its very much a stretch though.

 

[bb21]

I guess it is due to anxiety and stress caused by a bullying management, you really can't make GTR management up

You mean "caused by bullying civil servants who hide behind a veil run by a certain Mr Horton"?

The more I look at it, the more it has DafT written all over it. GTR would not have the guts otherwise to play it this way.

 

[tony6499]

You mean "caused by bullying civil servants who hide behind a veil run by a certain Mr Horton"?

The more I look at it, the more it has DafT written all over it. GTR would not have the guts otherwise to play it this way.

There was a culture of bullying and harassment by the same Southern managers a few years ago and it has carried on under GTR.

Strikes next week off and a 24 hour one now on Friday May 20th

 

[spangles]

There was a culture of bullying and harassment by the same Southern managers a few years ago and it has carried on under GTR.

Strikes next week off and a 24 hour one now on Friday May 20th

Interesting: the national executive appear to have overruled the local branch.
Also it is strange that the strikes have been curtailed so much. Does this mean the RMT are losing the support of their members who understandably don't want to lose a total of six days pay?

 

[tony6499]

Interesting: the national executive appear to have overruled the local branch.
Also it is strange that the strikes have been curtailed so much. Does this mean the RMT are losing the support of their members who understandably don't want to lose a total of six days pay?

I think there is more to it as it looks like this is going to be a long running dispute, plus so many Conductors going sick it might be impossible to strike anyway !!!!

 

[Dave1987]

Interesting: the national executive appear to have overruled the local branch.
Also it is strange that the strikes have been curtailed so much. Does this mean the RMT are losing the support of their members who understandably don't want to lose a total of six days pay?

I highly doubt they are losing support. One of the guards affected posted much earlier in the thread that the new OBS role will have less or no commission (can't remember which), no overtime, and Sundays as part of the working week. So they will be losing out on money. Many people on the railway use their base salary to pay the bills and the extras for holidays, birthdays/Christmas etc etc.

 

[GatwickDepress]

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...ncellations-between-brighton-and-southampton/

Southern having another public dig at their conductors. No wonder there is an unusually high level of sickness and people aren't volunteering for rest day work given the way they're being treated.

Wow. That is just plain disgusting.

 

[BRblue]

Wow. That is just plain disgusting.

Not forgetting of course the letter that GTR sent out where it stated that anybody who strikes will be prevented from working rest days... talk about hypocrits! GTR cause the problem and then blame everybody else... what a shambolic bunch of morons!

 

[dgl]

Wow. That is just plain disgusting.

Especially this:

"When our plans to evolve the role of conductor are implemented this type of cancellation and disruption to passengers will be vastly reduced.”

Trying to get their passengers on their side by using cheap tricks like this is vile.
Lets hope the disrupted passengers see through the smoke an mirrors.

 

[bb21]

Especially this:



Trying to get their passengers on their side by using cheap tricks like this is vile.
Lets hope the disrupted passengers see through the smoke an mirrors.

In other words, "When we get our ways and all trains are run DOO, there will be zero cancellation caused by guard unavailability."

GTR's previous records on OBMs (or similar) speak for themselves.

 

[Agent_c]

Especially this:



Trying to get their passengers on their side by using cheap tricks like this is vile.
Lets hope the disrupted passengers see through the smoke an mirrors.

In order to improve our customer service, we will no longer be offering customer service...

 

[Bletchleyite]

In order to improve our customer service, we will no longer be offering customer service...

Quite.

Regardless of the merits or otherwise of DOO, GTR are conducting themselves in a disgraceful manner.

 

[Bishopstone]

Forgive me if I've missed this earlier in the thread, but isn't there an ASLEF ballot result due imminently?

Is the date change for the RMT action anticipating the ASLEF position - plus their required pre-strike notice period - with the intention of synchronising action?

 

[455driver]

I agree with you and think it would be sensible for RMT and ASLEF to negotiate the pay, conditions and job security of the new role

There is no security with the new role and it isnt open to negotiation, why cant people understand that!

Would you be happy if your employer looked round and said "your job is being made redundant but we are going to give you this new one, the terms and conditions are worse, there is no overtime and rest day working and we cannot guarantee how long the job will last, if you dont like it there is the door"!

What would you do, bearing in mind you have got a wife, kids and mortgage to pay!

 

[DarloRich]

There is no security with the new role and it isnt open to negotiation, why cant people understand that!

Would you be happy if your employer looked round and said "your job is being made redundant but we are going to give you this new one, the terms and conditions are worse, there is no overtime and rest day working and we cannot guarantee how long the job will last, if you dont like it there is the door"!

What would you do, bearing in mind you have got a wife, kids and mortgage to pay!

most would be in a position of meek, if angry, acceptance.

 

[Monty]

More vile tricks from GTR I see, I wonder what they will try next.

 

[tony6499]

RMT going to go down the P T & R route where they will have 300+ Conductors eligible to contracted redundancy arrangements, interesting to see how GTR wriggle out of that as there is no way they can compare a OBS job to a Conductor's one.

 

[455driver]

When your train is required to be assisted by another you must lay detonator protection in the direction of the assistance. (yes there are exceptions)

It could be a very basic problem (loss of air) (loss of shoe gear) or something more complicated.

300 yrds on ballast is a nightmare. ! Leaving passengers unattended is not something done lightly but it can and will happen.

The driver also has to remain at the protection point and wait for the assisting train to arrive, no going back to the train!

I am sure the passengers would all remain on the train while receiving absolutely no information whatsoever, I mean it isnt like they detrain themselves when it suits is it!

If somebody detrained themselves from an unstaffed train and injured themselves I wonder who would be held responsible?

 

[Chrisgr31]

In order to improve our customer service, we will no longer be offering customer service...

That assumes they offer customer service at the moment! There inability to serve customers at times of disruption, to make the most of the good things they have done, and general PR has always been my big bugbear with Southern. This dispute just shows them at their worse.

 

[74A]

Forgive me if I've missed this earlier in the thread, but isn't there an ASLEF ballot result due imminently?

Is the date change for the RMT action anticipating the ASLEF position - plus their required pre-strike notice period - with the intention of synchronising action?

Im not sure ASLEF have started the ballot yet. Last thing on their website is going to PREPARE to ballot. If they do / have balloted they have to give GTR notice that they are going to do so. If ASLEF are balloting I would have expected some comment on GTR website to warn of possible action but there is nothing there.

 

[tony6499]

Im not sure ASLEF have started the ballot yet. Last thing on their website is going to PREPARE to ballot. If they do / have balloted they have to give GTR notice that they are going to do so. If ASLEF are balloting I would have expected some comment on GTR website to warn of possible action but there is nothing there.

I think they seem to be hanging back since they got that injunction

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...ncellations-between-brighton-and-southampton/

southern having another public dig at their conductors. No wonder there is an unusually high level of sickness and people aren't volunteering for rest day work given the way they're being treated.

not working their normal rest days ???????? Wtf ?

 

[PakRail]

not working their normal rest days ???????? Wtf ?

Hahah that is the bit that got me as well.