EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Howardh]

We'll come back in five years and assess the situation. Anything in the interim is hysterical speculation and to be honest, pointless.

Some things are more important than money.

It IS hysterical, but understandable. No-one's ever been here before, and there's nothing stopping things being worse than the worse case senario (Brexit don't have any senarios). But, fingers crossed and all that, if it does turn out alright, as in we're no more economically worse off than we are now, and we still get our freedom of travel, I'll hold my hands up.

Woudl like to see proof that the NHS money's being spent on the NHS, and if they are so certai of success, they can start spending it now in lieu. I mean, we're guaranteed to be £350m/week better off...that bus said so, right? We've not been sold a lie, surely??

 

[DarloRich]

At the moment I can't really see much option other than killing myself as everything I've worked and saved for may be for nothing. I've been saving and sacrificing for nearly 20 years.

don't be silly - if things get that bad cash out and convert the money into something fungible. Why do you think people run to gold in times of uncertainty.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Not when you need it to buy food, or medicines, or keep a roof over your head.

I find that the people who say that are either the ones who know they won't be affected, or have deluded themselves into thinking they won't.

I'll believe it's hysterical scaremongering when we're talking about stuff that hasn't already happened.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

It is even worse then we feared...

https://twitter.com/pzf/status/746339210978791424

 

[Butts]

Most of which went a long time ago :cry:

Know the feeling well

Might I humbly suggest someone who is proficient in the use of braille

I'm afraid you have failed the "Mc Aryan" test and are not eligible to cross the border.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Spreading all this doom and gloom serves no purpose.

Historically this type of action has had serious financial and economic repercussions, and nothing suggests so far that this time is any different. George Soros- the man who made a billion on Black Wednesday- is on record saying we are going to face significant pain as a result of this.

If George Soros is saying we're going to lose tens of billions, I'd sit up and listen.

 

[bb21]

It'll settle down in the long term. By jove, short term uncertainty is a price worth paying for self-governance.

A win for democracy and people power.

I suppose the difficulty is comparing what actually happens and what might have happened had the vote gone the other way.

Both sides will probably claim victory and "told you so" by comparing things to the "what ifs".

 

[Butts]

I find that the people who say that are either the ones who know they won't be affected, or have deluded themselves into thinking they won't.

I'll believe it's hysterical scaremongering when we're talking about stuff that hasn't already happened.

The way you are flapping one would think we heading for a re-run of The Weimar Republic paying for loaves with a wheelbarrow full of notes.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The way you are flapping one would think we heading for a re-run of The Weimar Republic paying for loaves with a wheelbarrow full of notes.

Isn't that what happens at Waitrose?

 

[jp4712]

Talking of medicines, let's just run through some of the consequences. And I think I'm qualified to talk on this.

1. You think that drugs are expensive? Think again, they make up less than 10% of the NHS bill. And the reason they're cheap is that EU freedom of trade makes it harder to 'grey trade', i.e. buy cheaply in one country and then sell in another at a high price, effectively bet against patients. And EU legislation made it possible for cheaper generic medicines to bring down the cost of drugs.

2. One of the nasty, intrusive EU laws you don't like is the Falsified Medicines Directive, which is making it easier to trace medicines across Europe and make it much, much harder to pass on fake or poor-quality medicines to the patient. As this will no longer apply to the UK, look forward to a choice of either accepting the EU approach anyway, or getting medicines counterfeiters to see the UK as the easiest market to sell their 'wares' to.

3. Do you yearn for new treatments, better and advanced medicines? Sorry. One of the biggest problems in introducing a new medicine used to be that you had to prove to every single country that the medicine was safe, created an advance in treatment etc. Under the EU that has been replaced by the so-called 'CP', the Centralised Procedure, and the science only has to be proved once at EU level before it is released to patients. That will now have to be done twice, once for Europe and once for the UK - and it's a long, complex procedure as it rightly should be. So if the disease doesn't have many patients so no mega-millions coming in, how sure are you that the inventor will be bothered with the UK with a smaller number of patients?

Every sinew in my body says that the people who voted for this are the ones who will be hurt the most.

 

[Butts]

Isn't that what happens at Waitrose?

Probably with an "Artisan Special"

 

[miami]

It'll settle down in the long term. By jove, short term uncertainty is a price worth paying for self-governance.

A win for democracy and people power.

A win for democracy? We'll get a PM that we didn't vote for and that's democracy?

I'm more concerned with the bolstering of nationalism throughout the world though. If it were a simple matter of us leaving the EU and suffering a financial hit it wouldn't be too bad, but the rise of isolationism and nationalism and blaming others will not be pretty. When houses are still unafordable, when the NHS is in a worse state than now, when unemployment returns to 1983 levels, who will people blame next time?

 

[DarloRich]

The market may well bounce back but it needs someone credible (HA!) on the leavers side to stop crowing and unveil the grand plan for our future. Surely this exists. Surely you have a plan. Surely........

Consider that the most credible person ( am i really saying this?) has just exited stage left......................

 

[Gutfright]

This is insane. You're completely insane. Utterly denying reality, because you can't and won't admit what problems this vote has caused.

What prospect of growth? On what grounds? Saying "YOU DON'T KNOW" is the very same thing people like you said before the 2008 crash, and you're saying it after the crash has already happened. Madness.

And as for the constitutional crises, it's the very fact that they've been alluded to that is the very problem. It took 40 years to settle the Troubles in NI, and you don't care that that can of worms has been opened? By your logic we should never be worried or make predictions about anything ever, because "[we] don't know".

And do you know what infuriates me the most? That however bad it gets, none of you will admit it was because of this.

Stop being such a drama queen.

Markets are volatile. The pound and FTSE had a downturn, but that's not the same thing as a 2008-style economic collapse. It's scandalous hyperbole to imply otherwise.

So get a effing grip, and let's wait to see the real world results.

 

[TheKnightWho]

A win for democracy? We'll get a PM that we didn't vote for and that's democracy?

I'm more concerned with the bolstering of nationalism throughout the world though. If it were a simple matter of us leaving the EU and suffering a financial hit it wouldn't be too bad, but the rise of isolationism and nationalism and blaming others will not be pretty. When houses are still unafordable, when the NHS is in a worse state than now, when unemployment returns to 1983 levels, who will people blame next time?

What they've always done in times of economic woe: immigrants and poor people.
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Stop being such a drama queen.

Markets are volatile. The pound and FTSE had a downturn, but that's not the same thing as a 2008-style economic collapse. It's scandalous hyperbole to imply otherwise.

So get a effing grip, and let's wait to see the real world results.

Volatile? The biggest downturn ever by a mile and you call it volatile? You are completely insane. How can it be scandalous hyperbole when the evidence plain to see is that it's bigger than 2008?

You're not only deluded about the implications of the facts, but you don't even know what the facts are.

You made this bed - accept it for what it is.

 

[northwichcat]

A win for democracy? We'll get a PM that we didn't vote for and that's democracy?

Well unlike America we can't vote for our political leader. People may well have voted Conservative to stop another party getting in e.g. if you live in Rochester and Strood you really had a choice of UKIP, Conservative or a party that wouldn't win.

 

[DarloRich]

Stop being such a drama queen.

Markets are volatile. The pound and FTSE had a downturn, but that's not the same thing as a 2008-style economic collapse. It's scandalous hyperbole to imply otherwise.

So get a effing grip, and let's wait to see the real world results.

we have a potentially serious economic situation on our hands and a definite period of high uncertainty as to the future direction of our country and our economy. No one knows how it will play out. To refuse to consider some of the outcomes seems churlish!

 

[northwichcat]

but that's not the same thing as a 2008-style economic collapse.

The 8% drop overnight could be the start of something much more disastrous than the 2008 collapse, it's the biggest drop since the 1980s recession. There's experts saying the Conservatives can't wait until October to begin leave negotiations as 4 extra months of uncertainty could be very damaging on the British economy.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

we have a potentially serious economic situation on our hands and a definite period of high uncertainty as to the future direction of our country and our economy. No one knows how it will play out. To refuse to consider some of the outcomes seems churlish!

I'd take out 'potentially'!

 

[Gutfright]

Volatile? The biggest downturn ever by a mile and you call it volatile? You are completely insane. How can it be scandalous hyperbole when the evidence plain to see is that it's bigger than 2008?

Yes, volatile. Volatile means the markets go up and down very quickly.

It is scandalous hyperbole to say that a downturn in the price of sterling and in the FTSE means we have suffered an economic collapse and it's going to be 2008 all over again.

 

[EM2]

Markets are volatile. The pound and FTSE had a downturn, but that's not the same thing as a 2008-style economic collapse.

Sterling had the biggest drop in a single day of any major currency, ever. Bigger than Black Monday. Bigger than Black Wednesday.
Dow Jones down nearly 400 points since opening (it dropped 508 on Black Monday).
But it's just a downturn...

 

[Howardh]

The 8% drop overnight could be the start of something much more disastrous than the 2008 collapse, it's the biggest drop since the 1980s recession. There's experts saying the Conservatives can't wait until October to begin leave negotiations as 4 extra months of uncertainty could be very damaging on the British economy.

They could be very lucky that it's June and summer I would assume is generally quiet.
Had this been February and the height of the financial year - would that have made a difference to the markets?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Yes, volatile. Volatile means the markets go up and down very quickly.

It is scandalous hyperbole to say that a downturn in the price of sterling and in the FTSE means we have suffered an economic collapse and it's going to be 2008 all over again.

I would be convinced it was volatile if it wasn't the biggest drop ever. You are simply denying reality: it's obvious you'd dismiss any drop as "volatile", frankly.

It's becoming very obvious that those responsible for this mess won't take responsibility, or even acknowledge it for what it is.

 

[Gutfright]

we have a potentially serious economic situation on our hands and a definite period of high uncertainty as to the future direction of our country and our economy. No one knows how it will play out. To refuse to consider some of the outcomes seems churlish!

It's wrong to say "No one knows how it will play out."

TheKnightWho knows exactly how it will play out.

 

[miami]

Well unlike America we can't vote for our political leader. People may well have voted Conservative to stop another party getting in e.g. if you live in Rochester and Strood you really had a choice of UKIP, Conservative or a party that wouldn't win.

Quite. And that's fine - it's exactly the same way europe runs.

What's laughable is that leave campaign go on about democracy and unelected government in europe, but then deliver exactly the same in the UK.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Quite. And that's fine - it's exactly the same way europe runs.

What's laughable is that leave campaign go on about democracy and unelected government in europe, but then deliver exactly the same in the UK.

We've had it before when a PM has stood down and another one taken their place without an election - Blair to Brown being the most recent

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's wrong to say "No one knows how it will play out."

TheKnightWho knows exactly how it will play out.

No - you're simply engaging in your favourite tactic of saying that all outcomes are equally likely, and saying that because I don't deny factors like facts and evidence I'm simply a soothsayer for predicting bad things.

I don't know exactly how it will turn out - but equally I don't know that I'll hit the ground if I jump off a bloody cliff.

At what point does it need to be bad enough for you to accept that Brexit was a bad thing?

 

[northwichcat]

We've had it before when a PM has stood down and another one taken their place without an election - Blair to Brown being the most recent

Yes and as I pointed out earlier the Conservative opposition which included Cameron, Gove, Johnson, May and Duncan-Smith, criticised Labour for doing that and demanded a General Election. A change from pro-EU Cameron to Johnson would be a much more significant change.

 

[Gutfright]

At what point does it need to be bad enough for you to accept that Brexit was a bad thing?

When the economy goes into depression?

When unemployment shoots through the roof?

Let's wait for those things to happen before making judgements, yeah?

 

[TheKnightWho]

When the economy goes into depression?

When unemployment shoots through the roof?

Let's wait for those things to happen before making judgements, yeah?

And the things that have happened are the very things that have preceded nearly every time those things have happened. More importantly, I can't think of any times we've taken a hit this hard and not gone into recession.